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Post by justfran on Nov 5, 2019 8:48:12 GMT
Three Phantoms? That’s not for the UK presumably?, I wish it was!
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Post by eponineserrand on Nov 5, 2019 8:59:00 GMT
I'm sure this has probably come up in the past & I apologise if it has (I'm new-ish around these parts!) but if you could choose your dream/definitive cast for Les Mis, who would you choose? Time & age doesn't matter in your dream cast productions by the way!
JVJ: John Owen Jones Javet: Philip Quast Fantine: Ruthie Henshall Cossette: Katie Hall Eponine: Frances Ruffelle Enjoloras: Ramin Karimloo/Bradley Jaden Marius: M Ball Thenardier: Steven Meo M. Thenardier: Katy Secombe or Jenny Galloway
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Post by tysilio2 on Nov 5, 2019 9:01:43 GMT
Saw this tonight. My friends and I thought Micheal Ball was almost slurring his words, or was singing like he had false teeth in - sooo odd! Maybe he was biting his jaw down and this made the ssssss’s different? But we all turned round to each other at the same time thinking, what’s up with his voice?! I thought exactly the same at the Saturday matinee. A lot of 'sliding' up/down to words. I don't remember him doing that in Chess (which was the last time I saw him live)
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Post by tysilio2 on Nov 5, 2019 9:04:17 GMT
Three Phantoms? That’s not for the UK presumably?, China January 2020 with Earl Carpenter and Jeremy Secomb
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Post by daisy24601 on Nov 5, 2019 9:29:50 GMT
I'm sure this has probably come up in the past & I apologise if it has (I'm new-ish around these parts!) but if you could choose your dream/definitive cast for Les Mis, who would you choose? Time & age doesn't matter in your dream cast productions by the way! JVJ: John Owen Jones Javet: Philip Quast Fantine: Ruthie Henshall Cossette: Katie Hall Eponine: Frances Ruffelle Enjoloras: Ramin Karimloo/Bradley Jaden Marius: M Ball Thenardier: Steven Meo M. Thenardier: Katy Secombe or Jenny Galloway You've put my exact same answers already, but I'd have Lea Salonga as Eponine and I'd choose Ramin over Bradley.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 10:16:11 GMT
One group only cares about celebrity, the other cares about actual quality. 2 different worlds. Being a Les Mis fan, and enjoying Alfie Boe's Valjean, are not mutually exclusive. Some people here seem to be suggesting that those going to see Alfie Boe as Valjean are inferior to the JOJ fanatics, and are not real Les Mis fans.
I've been a Les Mis fan for years, and have seen it countless times around the world. And many of those times with JOJ as Valjean. But guess what? I deliberately booked to see Alfie Boe in this as I've never seen him perform the role live. And I enjoyed him enough in the 25th Anniversary Concert broadcast to be happy to pay the prices they are charging for this. It certainly doesn't make me any less of a Les Mis fan for it. Seeing new performers in the roles is one of the reasons I have kept returning to Les Mis over the years.
I'm not saying I prefer Alfie Boe over JOJ, but nor is JOJ my favourite Valjean. But this production is an event, with Alfie Boe and Michael Ball as the leads, so of course they are going to be doing the cinema screening. People who don't like Alfie Boe have had the opportunity to see JOJ in the role during the run, which is great. But to start complaining that your favourite performer is not being filmed instead of the lead actor, is unreasonable.
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Post by 141920grm on Nov 5, 2019 12:32:57 GMT
Re Les Mis dreamcast: one cannot leave out David Thaxton’s Enjolras...
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Post by ruby on Nov 5, 2019 12:56:50 GMT
Off topic and probably one for the unpopular opinions thread, but I have never got the love for Ramin Karimloo at all.
*runs and hides*
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Post by 141920grm on Nov 5, 2019 13:03:18 GMT
That is such a generalisation! I wouldn't say so. The difference is quite simple, really: Les Mis is musical theatre. Sure Alfie can sing (we have all agreed on that). But he can't act (the theatre part is missing). Do you see now? Alfie only fulfils half of the basic requirements of an acceptable Les Mis performance. Which is all we're getting at. Which is why it is valid to say this concert casting is indeed celebrity vs. quality. Snobbishness doesn't even come into play.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 5, 2019 13:38:01 GMT
Has there ever been a ‘true’ concert version? By which I mean no costumes, no walking offstage with wistful backward glances, no locks of ‘air being cut, and the only acting being done through the singing?
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Post by danb on Nov 5, 2019 13:41:45 GMT
Sometimes in my car on a long journey...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 17:47:57 GMT
That is such a generalisation! I wouldn't say so. The difference is quite simple, really: Les Mis is musical theatre. Sure Alfie can sing (we have all agreed on that). But he can't act (the theatre part is missing). Do you see now? Alfie only fulfils half of the basic requirements of an acceptable Les Mis performance. Which is all we're getting at. Which is why it is valid to say this concert casting is indeed celebrity vs. quality. Snobbishness doesn't even come into play. No, it is not valid to state that as fact - some people may find Alfie's acting perfectly adequate. That is as valid an opinion as any, and in my opinion the conversation in this thread about filming did become increasingly snobbish about it all. If you prefer purist musical theatre (as I do), that's your prerogative, but the contrary opinion is not wrong, and anyone with any commercial experience can see why it is being filmed with Now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 17:51:23 GMT
That is such a generalisation! I wouldn't say so. The difference is quite simple, really: Les Mis is musical theatre. Sure Alfie can sing (we have all agreed on that). But he can't act (the theatre part is missing). Do you see now? Alfie only fulfils half of the basic requirements of an acceptable Les Mis performance. Which is all we're getting at. Which is why it is valid to say this concert casting is indeed celebrity vs. quality. Snobbishness doesn't even come into play. The fact that you say he can't act and then say what is an 'acceptable' Les Mis performance is the definition of snobbishness.
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Post by 141920grm on Nov 5, 2019 18:21:50 GMT
To me though, the difference isn't better/worse acting, it's presence/absence of acting. It is clear if you've seen both, which I have. Sigh, but to each their own.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 5, 2019 18:22:00 GMT
Sometimes in my car on a long journey... Your poor, poor family.
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Post by danb on Nov 5, 2019 18:37:41 GMT
Sometimes in my car on a long journey... Your poor, poor family. How dare you Sir! Have you even HEARD my ‘Red & Black’? 😂
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 20:05:52 GMT
To me though, the difference isn't better/worse acting, it's presence/absence of acting. It is clear if you've seen both, which I have. Sigh, but to each their own. You just cant help yourself, can you. We get it, your a JOJ groupie, no need to labour the point.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 20:25:26 GMT
No need to be impolite, either.
I don’t think it’s overstating the case, or being snobbish, to suggest that the term ‘musical theatre’ implies both good singing and good acting. Therefore anyone not fulfilling the job description on both counts could arguably be viewed as lacking.
I think Alfie Boe has a beautiful voice but can’t act. I think JOJ has a beautiful voice and can act. I also think JOJ has the vocal stamina for a West End show but Boe does not, and it’s seen a lot of his fans short changed. Rewarding that with a filmed extravaganza leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
I also think it’s a shame we’re getting yet another recording of Boe’s JVJ when we already have the O2 performance. I understand why it’s being done (the Boe/Ball combo bringing in lots of dosh for CamMack) but I do feel it devalues the product a little when neither are outstanding in their roles.
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Post by miz on Nov 5, 2019 20:40:15 GMT
Was it something I said??? Just joking. Anyway, I hope this Forum remains to be a place where theatre-goers can air their opinions freely. And I trust that the moderators will step in if uncalled-for comments were ever posted. If my comments are erased by them, I will know I have stepped over the line because I sometimes post a comment at the risk of being bashed by people who don't agree with me. But I don't mind being bashed as long as those people are arguing with their honest opinions. I don't want this Forum to be a place where people are afraid of posting a comment.
With that, let me repeat I have ABSOLUTELY no problem acknowledging that AB is a commercially far more successful performer than JOJ and I certainly don't have anything against AB fans. A few of my theatre-going frends are, in fact, fans of both JOJ and AB and we don't intend to poinson each other.
Having said that, I am still of the opinion that, as JVJ, JOJ is a more suitable (I am choosing my words carefully here) performer than AB since I don't think AB's singing style perfectly suits the role. Not because he is a bad performer but because he is a singer. I believe JVJ is an actor's role (well, it's a musical play even in a concert format. See the 10th anniversary video for reference). That's why I wished JOJ's brilliance in the role could be introduced to the general public via live streaming AS WELL AS AB's.
As for the celebrity culture vs quality, I can give a good example. More than 10 years ago, there was a production of La Cage aux Folles at the Menier Chocolate Factory with Philip Quast as George and Douglas Hodge as Albin. It transfered to the Playhouse and, after a while, Roger Allam came in as Albin.I would say this was a dream combination. Going to see them perform together was a highlight of my theatre-going life. But, sadly, the incomparable PQ and RA are not household names and, true to form, the house was never full.Then there was a cast change and in came John Barrowman who immediately filled the seats. I can't remember who was cast as George against JB but I think I made my point clear.
Obviously,commercial theatres need to generate profit, but if name-casting continues to be the norm, the standards of both performers and audience will go down in the long run. And that could lead to the decline of the British theatre industry. Let us hope it will never happen.
I am aware that not everyone will agree with my view and that's fine. Your opposing opinions are welcome. Thank you for reading.
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Post by miz on Nov 5, 2019 20:50:21 GMT
Off topic and probably one for the unpopular opinions thread, but I have never got the love for Ramin Karimloo at all. *runs and hides* I love Ramin, but I don't hate you . I would appreciate it if you could share your reasons. I personally rate his portrayal of JVJ as highly as JOJ's.
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Post by miz on Nov 5, 2019 20:55:21 GMT
I'm sure this has probably come up in the past & I apologise if it has (I'm new-ish around these parts!) but if you could choose your dream/definitive cast for Les Mis, who would you choose? Time & age doesn't matter in your dream cast productions by the way! JVJ: John Owen Jones Javet: Philip Quast Fantine: Ruthie Henshall Cossette: Katie Hall Eponine: Frances Ruffelle Enjoloras: Ramin Karimloo/Bradley Jaden Marius: M Ball Thenardier: Steven Meo M. Thenardier: Katy Secombe or Jenny Galloway I would ADD Earl Carpenter as Javert, David Thaxton as Enjolras (he is the embodiment of Enjolras in the original novel), Martin Ball as Thenardier.
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Post by miz on Nov 5, 2019 21:02:23 GMT
Three Phantoms? That’s not for the UK presumably?, China January 2020 with Earl Carpenter and Jeremy Secomb I am seriously thinking of flying over to Shanghai to see this show. I am a big fan of the 3 Phantoms, and I welcome the new member, Mr. Secomb, as I remember being very much impressed by his Javert. I didn't know he has also played the Phantom. It makes the show 3 Phantoms and 2 Javerts. The problem is how to purchase tickets. At the moment, the website seems to allow only Chinese people to purchase tickets.
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Post by danb on Nov 5, 2019 21:11:14 GMT
Was Carpenter Javert when the 25th tour started in Cardiff? If so he was excellent and would have been a much more appropriate casting than bankable Balls. But I totally get that for the purpose of this production they’ve gone with him...I’d have gone for Biggins.
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Post by miz on Nov 5, 2019 21:16:58 GMT
Was Carpenter Javert when the 25th tour started in Cardiff? If so he was excellent and would have been a much more appropriate casting than bankable Balls. But I totally get that for the purpose of this production they’ve gone with him...I’d have gone for Biggins. Yes he was. I was there for the very first performance.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 21:37:40 GMT
As for the celebrity culture vs quality, I can give a good example. More than 10 years ago, there was a production of La Cage aux Folles at the Menier Chocolate Factory with Philip Quast as George and Douglas Hodge as Albin. It transfered to the Playhouse and, after a while, Roger Allam came in as Albin.I would say this was a dream combination. Going to see them perform together was a highlight of my theatre-going life. But, sadly, the incomparable PQ and RA are not household names and, true to form, the house was never full.Then there was a cast change and in came John Barrowman who immediately filled the seats. I can't remember who was cast as George against JB but I think I made my point clear.
I'm not sure that is a good example, as John Barrowman was a seasoned West End and Broadway musical theatre performer before he became a household name. So his casting in La Cage Aux Folles makes perfect sense from a creative and commercial point of view. The fact you preferred Roger Allam in the role is neither here nor there.
That's what I don't understand about this Alfie Boe/celebrity arguement. Alfie is not new to the role of Valjean, and I would argue that his mainstream success came after playing the role at the O2. His popularity as Valjean certainly boosted his profile somewhat. So it seems odd it's now being turned around to say he was only cast in this concert run because he's a celebrity.
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