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Post by SageStageMgr on Jun 27, 2017 18:56:37 GMT
CONTAINS SPOILERS AND HATRED
Saw today's matinee.
Ticket price: £19 (row W, TodayTix app, bought this morning) - upgraded at box office when collecting ticket to centre of Row G (press row with three reviewers dotted around). Around half full in stalls, mostly elderly people and school groups, the latter making up the majority).
To paraphrase the great Roger Ebert: "I hated this show. I hate, hate hate HATED this stupid show". Now, my humble opinion is far less critically sound (and - indeed - respected) than Ebert's, but I will do my best.
It's a dog of a show. A real hot mess of semi-meta Pantomime fourth-wall breaking, "family comedy" (if your family consists entirely of imbecilic under 10's) and lazy storytelling.
The show begins with - actually, scratch that. It doesn't begin. Or end. It "starts" and "stops". The show STARTS with some of the clunkiest exposition imaginable; with brutal dialogue;
"Oh, so you're a rat then? I'm a mole! Do you want to be friends, Ratty? Great! Let's sing a song! I'm a mole, you know".
The writers clearly didn't have a lot of confidence in the "show don't tell" method on this one. Literally everything is explained; except the stuff we NEED TO KNOW. Mole and Rat sing a song about how they love being on a boat together. While they're on a boat together. That is the entire song. And it's brought back later too (a running theme, forgive the pun). It is meant to demonstrate that they are new friends who immediately shared a bond, but it just comes off plain weird.
One unexplained question is why Toad is so well liked by his peers and a "great friend" (they do a whole song about this, reprised at least twice, I lost track/stopped caring) when he is such a complete and utter cockwomble. As a character, he has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. He's an irresponsible, elitist, self-serving bully who committed grand theft auto, broke out of prison by manipulating a seemingly mentally ill person, then became a fugitive posing as a woman. At his trial, upon being urged to plead guilty by his friends (on charges he admitted in open court), he acted with utter shock when he was sentenced to prison. Then while on the run, he commits a hijacking/kidnapping of the same victim as before, a completely innocent bystander, then CRASHES the car with the victim still inside, endangering his own life and that of his victim. Then, to compound it all, the show lampshades his "journey" at the end of the play with Rat outright calling him out on not having learnt a lesson. He handwaves this with a pandering few sentences about how he's a "true friend". And we're meant to root for this guy!!! He's an absolute tosspot!!!
It is meant to be a comedy - there are some half-arsed sub-Stooges slapstick, which fulfilled the comedy criteria, I presume, for legal purposes. But there aren't any actual jokes. And the lines on the script that are played as jokes aren't funny. Or original. Or jokes.
The songs are ho-hum; the "friend" song kept coming back, like a particularly nasty venereal rash that simply won't disappear for good. Talking about diseased genitalia, at least there are no romantic subplots about inter-bestial relationships. No love stories at all - which was nice. The "Spring" song which opens the show reminded me of "Lammastide" from The Woman in White or "Spring is Busting Out All Over" from Carousel. It comes out of absolutely nowhere and serves no purpose apart from yelling at the audience that it's spring (which, to be fair, it achieves). At least "We Need a Little Christmas" from Mame, another incoherently random seasonal song, was catchy. There is a weird song early in the first Act by four girls (I think), and it is performed downstage so I think it was solely there to cover a scene change. I don't know who those girls were now, or even if they were part of the show.
The songs generally don't advance the plot, which in the first Act is at a snails pace. The painfully long first half was a chore to get through, I don't remember ever being so bored in a theatre. There is a random song about hedgehogs trying to cross a road. Utterly pointless and needs to be cut.
The production values and general expense on this production just feels downplayed. Everything is a little bit muted. The cast is smallish, the set is smallish for such an enormous stage, even the pre-show lighting state (obnoxious green LEDs pointed down on the audience) feels like an afterthought.
Someone thought it would be a great idea for all the animals to have different British regional dialects. This reminded me of "The Lord of the Rings", which featured what I described at the time as "a bewildering array of bizarre fake accents". The same very much applies here. Mole is given a poor attempt at a West Country bumpkin accent ala the Hobbits; Geordies, Brummies, Cockneys and Scousers are represented. I strongly suspect that the director asked in rehearsals "what accents can you all do?", then promptly ignored their answers and forced them into these shocking attempts. WHY??
There is a horrible, desperation gimmick finale too with a flying effect (Toad on Wires - actually that'd be a good name for a band) and even confetti! Yay! Bound to send the kiddies home happy. Except they weren't. Nobody was. A very tepid curtain call, bored/annoyed looking people around me.
Oh and the cast? What to say... not a lot. They're nowhere near good enough to save the show. No eye candy in it (unless you want to get freaky with a water vole or grind on a middle-aged badger, in which case a) this is the show for you and b) you need serious help)
Rufus Hound is loving terrible. He gurns, jiggles around annoyingly and has a face you just want to punch. His singing is okay (for a non singer), his acting is just about okay (for a non actor), but he didn't get a laugh all night (which is okay because he's not a comed... oh).
Craig Mather did Marius for ages in Les Mis and was okay. He's out of his depth here. Funnily enough the only one I liked is that seasoned old pro, that salty old seadog, ol' Johnny fella me-lad Gary Wilmot, who is actually mildly interesting as Badger. Even if he does keep singing the same song whenever he rocks up on stage.
The final nail in the coffin for me is that I LOVE bad theatre. Exposure: The Musical? That was a bloody masterpiece. I nearly wet myself at the ridiculous, campy terribleness of it. As I did with Too Close to the Sun and several other "so bad it's good" shockers.
This, however, is just plain bad. A polished turd. No laughs, no fun, nothing. Just things that happen - and largely don't - then it stops.
Joyless, weak plot, pointless.
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 27, 2017 18:57:10 GMT
I know it's a family show, but that's not the point. Matilda, Mary Poppins, Chitty. They don't treat kids like they're stupid, they invest in some actual drama, tension and stakes amidst all the fun, and they work because the majority of kids can take it. Here, they seem to think kids can't handle anything above very mild peril and the show suffers for it. Where in Poppins and Chitty is there anything more than mild peril? They're not exactly The bleedin' Exorcist! 👻 Haha maybe - but it's the way its presented. No offence intended here dear Bear, but I'm guessing you didn't see Poppins or Chitty on stage as a kid? Well I tell ya, before it was tragically cut, Temper Temper was one of the scariest things I had ever seen live when I was a kid - and I loved it!! And I defy any kid not to be scared of the Child Catcher - when played right! It was sophisticated peril (I think I just made that up) that was not dumbed down for kids. All of your bedroom toys coming alive (and not in a Toy Story kind of way) and taking you to court and a weird old man trying to lure kids with sweets and kidnapping them....hello!! WitW had none of this, I felt, and the comedy didn't appear to be exactly aimed at young kids, so it just left me wondering who the show is for and why! |
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Post by ptwest on Jun 27, 2017 19:18:21 GMT
I was always on the side of the child catcher. It was Jeremy and Jemima singing "Truly Scrumptious" that did it.
Agree though, having taken large groups of children to the theatre to see a wide range of shows, they love the "edge of your seats" moments, just so long as they are brought out safely the other side. Anything which brings out a strong emotion e.g. fear, humour, amazement etc makes the experience just that little bit richer and more memorable for them.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 27, 2017 19:36:19 GMT
This review is brilliant.. thankyou! CONTAINS SPOILERS AND HATRED Saw today's matinee. Ticket price: £19 (row W, TodayTix app, bought this morning) - upgraded at box office when collecting ticket to centre of Row G (press row with three reviewers dotted around). Around half full in stalls, mostly elderly people and school groups, the latter making up the majority). To paraphrase the great Roger Ebert: "I hated this show. I hate, hate hate HATED this stupid show". Now, my humble opinion is far less critically sound (and - indeed - respected) than Ebert's, but I will do my best. It's a dog of a show. A real hot mess of semi-meta Pantomime fourth-wall breaking, "family comedy" (if your family consists entirely of imbecilic under 10's) and lazy storytelling. The show begins with - actually, scratch that. It doesn't begin. Or end. It "starts" and "stops". The show STARTS with some of the clunkiest exposition imaginable; with brutal dialogue; "Oh, so you're a rat then? I'm a mole! Do you want to be friends, Ratty? Great! Let's sing a song! I'm a mole, you know". The writers clearly didn't have a lot of confidence in the "show don't tell" method on this one. Literally everything is explained; except the stuff we NEED TO KNOW. Mole and Rat sing a song about how they love being on a boat together. While they're on a boat together. That is the entire song. And it's brought back later too (a running theme, forgive the pun). It is meant to demonstrate that they are new friends who immediately shared a bond, but it just comes off plain weird. One unexplained question is why Toad is so well liked by his peers and a "great friend" (they do a whole song about this, reprised at least twice, I lost track/stopped caring) when he is such a complete and utter cockwomble. As a character, he has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. He's an irresponsible, elitist, self-serving bully who committed grand theft auto, broke out of prison by manipulating a seemingly mentally ill person, then became a fugitive posing as a woman. At his trial, upon being urged to plead guilty by his friends (on charges he admitted in open court), he acted with utter shock when he was sentenced to prison. Then while on the run, he commits a hijacking/kidnapping of the same victim as before, a completely innocent bystander, then CRASHES the car with the victim still inside, endangering his own life and that of his victim. Then, to compound it all, the show lampshades his "journey" at the end of the play with Rat outright calling him out on not having learnt a lesson. He handwaves this with a pandering few sentences about how he's a "true friend". And we're meant to root for this guy!!! He's an absolute tosspot!!! It is meant to be a comedy - there are some half-arsed sub-Stooges slapstick, which fulfilled the comedy criteria, I presume, for legal purposes. But there aren't any actual jokes. And the lines on the script that are played as jokes aren't funny. Or original. Or jokes. The songs are ho-hum; the "friend" song kept coming back, like a particularly nasty venereal rash that simply won't disappear for good. Talking about diseased genitalia, at least there are no romantic subplots about inter-bestial relationships. No love stories at all - which was nice. The "Spring" song which opens the show reminded me of "Lammastide" from The Woman in White or "Spring is Busting Out All Over" from Carousel. It comes out of absolutely nowhere and serves no purpose apart from yelling at the audience that it's spring (which, to be fair, it achieves). At least "We Need a Little Christmas" from Mame, another incoherently random seasonal song, was catchy. There is a weird song early in the first Act by four girls (I think), and it is performed downstage so I think it was solely there to cover a scene change. I don't know who those girls were now, or even if they were part of the show. The songs generally don't advance the plot, which in the first Act is at a snails pace. The painfully long first half was a chore to get through, I don't remember ever being so bored in a theatre. There is a random song about hedgehogs trying to cross a road. Utterly pointless and needs to be cut. The production values and general expense on this production just feels downplayed. Everything is a little bit muted. The cast is smallish, the set is smallish for such an enormous stage, even the pre-show lighting state (obnoxious green LEDs pointed down on the audience) feels like an afterthought. Someone thought it would be a great idea for all the animals to have different British regional dialects. This reminded me of "The Lord of the Rings", which featured what I described at the time as "a bewildering array of bizarre fake accents". The same very much applies here. Mole is given a poor attempt at a West Country bumpkin accent ala the Hobbits; Geordies, Brummies, Cockneys and Scousers are represented. I strongly suspect that the director asked in rehearsals "what accents can you all do?", then promptly ignored their answers and forced them into these shocking attempts. WHY?? There is a horrible, desperation gimmick finale too with a flying effect (Toad on Wires - actually that'd be a good name for a band) and even confetti! Yay! Bound to send the kiddies home happy. Except they weren't. Nobody was. A very tepid curtain call, bored/annoyed looking people around me. Oh and the cast? What to say... not a lot. They're nowhere near good enough to save the show. No eye candy in it (unless you want to get freaky with a water vole or grind on a middle-aged badger, in which case a) this is the show for you and b) you need serious help) Rufus Hound is loving terrible. He gurns, jiggles around annoyingly and has a face you just want to punch. His singing is okay (for a non singer), his acting is just about okay (for a non actor), but he didn't get a laugh all night (which is okay because he's not a comed... oh). Craig Mather did Marius for ages in Les Mis and was okay. He's out of his depth here. Funnily enough the only one I liked is that seasoned old pro, that salty old seadog, ol' Johnny fella me-lad Gary Wilmot, who is actually mildly interesting as Badger. Even if he does keep singing the same song whenever he rocks up on stage. The final nail in the coffin for me is that I LOVE bad theatre. Exposure: The Musical? That was a bloody masterpiece. I nearly wet myself at the ridiculous, campy terribleness of it. As I did with Too Close to the Sun and several other "so bad it's good" shockers. This, however, is just plain bad. A polished turd. No laughs, no fun, nothing. Just things that happen - and largely don't - then it stops. Joyless, weak plot, pointless. |
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Post by Dawnstar on Jun 27, 2017 20:13:35 GMT
I do love reading a complete hatchet job! Thanks SageStageMgr |
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Post by Steve on Jun 29, 2017 11:34:09 GMT
Saw this last night. The songs are lovely, the costumes are lovely, the set is lovely, the actors are great, but the storytelling is a shambles. Some spoilers follow. . . Having read this thread, I was expecting a disaster, and for me, it isn't, as there is too much to love here. While there isn't a song as catchy and fun as "Pick Out a Simple Tune" in this show, that's because there aren't ANY new songs written for British musicals that are as catchy and fun as that. And as far as Stiles and Drewe go, this is lyrically cutesy, as you'd expect from a children's show, and musically excellent, as I found myself humming along with multiple songs, in particular, the sweet "Messing About in a Boat," the jocular "The Open Road," the dangerous "The Wild Wooders" and the Disney-like, "A Friend is Still a Friend." Once the album is out, I think people will come to the view that the songs are excellent. The set and costumes are cute as a button, adorably quaint for adults, and sweetly enchanting for little ones. The actors are perfect: Simon Lipkin makes ratty a joy, embodying this noble and decent guide to the Riverbank with that indecisive hesitancy that imbues this and so many Lipkin characters with that welcome side of humour. Denise Welch may not be able to sing, but her forthrightness and effusiveness endow Mrs. Otter with a Loose Woman likeability that will be a delight for the older crowd. Neil McDermott is a terrificly charismatic antagonist as the Chief Weasel, a demonic David Bowie with just enough self-conscious smirk to avoid scaring the kids. Gary Wilmot is an endearing father figure as Badger. Rufus Hound gets as wild and crazy with Toad as he possibly can. And the lead character, Craig Mather's Mole is as curious and as sweet as any children's hero setting out on a great adventure. Except there is NO GREAT ADVENTURE. There is only a mishmash of conflicted characters, expressing a mishmash of muddled values, in a mishmashed muddle of events. Don't ask me whether the dating of Kenneth Grahame, or the updating of Julian Fellowes, are responsible, but this is the sort of "adventure" we get (including some spoilers): Our adventuring heroes, Mole and Ratty meet in the boat, set their sights on meeting Toad, who Ratty says isn't very nice. When we meet him, he is in fact detestable. Confusingly for children, we drop our adventurers, Mole and Ratty, to follow the "zany" adventures of this detestable Toad, who, from nowhere, we are now supposed to like. Ratty and Mole, the ones we actually like, moan about how terrible Toad is, which makes our attention to Toad seem misplaced, and also, for children, is doubly confusing, as their heroes are so incredibly square and compliant, fearful and undesirous of having the sort of unbounded fun that children usually want. While Toad commits crimes, a girl is kidnapped, but noone cares, and her storyline is strangely dropped, while everyone sets about rescuing Toad from his self-inflicted wounds instead. The Stoats capture Toad Hall, except that it's confusing what they are capturing, or who it belongs to. Ratty and Mole have a story digression in the woods that has nothing to do with any of this. By this time, noone knows whose story we are telling, who we are supposed to care about, or what the stakes are. At the very very very end, Rufus Hound's Toad suddenly becomes the fun, wild but likeable, character he should have been all along. But it's too late. What should have been the exciting adventures of a loveable variety of characters, playing off each other, has in fact been a confusing mess. A massive opportunity squandered! Regardless, those songs, those actors, those costumes, that set, are such diverting comforting pleasures, in and of themselves, that I got 3 and a half stars of enjoyment.  |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 29, 2017 11:55:43 GMT
I now really want to see this as I love train wreck musicals
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Post by wickedgrin on Jun 29, 2017 12:34:58 GMT
Opens tonight I believe. It will be fascinating to see what the critics make of it. I suspect more positive than the remarks on here as usual. Lots of availability and offers for this show at the moment. It may do better during the school holidays?
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 29, 2017 12:38:31 GMT
Opens tonight I believe. It will be fascinating to see what the critics make of it. I suspect more positive than the remarks on here as usual. Lots of availability and offers for this show at the moment. It may do better during the school holidays? Yes, I'm also really interested to read the reviews tonight, though I also suspect they'll be largely positive. Mark Shenton gave it 4* in The Stage when it was on tour, which seeing as he gives 5* to anything and everything (including Kenwright's Joseph tour alongside Imelda Staunton's Gypsy), that almost seems like a 1*!! I joke, of course. Also, looking back through this thread, when this was on tour, the comments on here were really largely positive - but on its move to London, the comments on here have been distinctly middle-of-the-road to negative (and then some). I wonder why this is?? |
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Post by wickedgrin on Jun 29, 2017 12:42:42 GMT
Perhaps people's expectations are higher in London, at the Palladium AND at West End prices?
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Post by alece10 on Jun 29, 2017 13:44:52 GMT
Perhaps people's expectations are higher in London, at the Palladium AND at West End prices? Are the west end prices for this show a lot more than when it was on tour? I didn't think the prices were that bad tbh. Lots of good stalls seats for about £50 and plenty of offers around. |
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Post by groupbooker on Jun 29, 2017 15:00:01 GMT
I saw this first in Plymouth when it started the short tour. It is and was a very good family show and received very good reviews. The sets built by the Theatre Royal were a great reflection of the riverbank and homes. IF they had copied something like the Nationals depiction of the homes in their version of Willows, you all would have said "oh cant come up with something original". Once you have heard the music a couple of times there are some good songs there. I was also there on Wednesday and thought Chris did a great job as toad and was far better the Mr Hound, especially as he had not run through the show before. There were quite a few changes in most scenes from Plymouth - I did feel a bit of over kill on the weasels and stoats with what seemed longer musical scenes with them. The part where (asmdsmsandm) says girls came to the front of the stage and sang a song - they were supposed to be "air-hostesses" - swallows flying back for summer. Also the hedgehog song is good and something a bit different to bring them into the story with a bit of humour - also a lot of the animals sang their own bits during the show.
This board is all about discussion about shows and is very interesting to read, but remember not everyone goes to shows many times a week or month as people who can get into London easily can. Further afield from London it is a night out for most a couple of times a year - so please remember a lot go to sit and be entertained for an evening without thinking of the deeper places of the story. Yes they would say "that wasn't very good" or "a bit slow", but most would go and tell friends "I really enjoyed that". I expect to be slapped down for this and I also don't like some shows I have seen but I feel a tour of this would do well in the sticks more than London.
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Post by SamB (was badoerfan) on Jun 29, 2017 15:05:08 GMT
So I'm apparently seeing this tonight - and it's the opening night! That's exciting! I'm probably going to feel very underdressed!!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 29, 2017 15:29:26 GMT
Also, looking back through this thread, when this was on tour, the comments on here were really largely positive - but on its move to London, the comments on here have been distinctly middle-of-the-road to negative (and then some). I wonder why this is?? Because we're a bit thick and poor oop north and don't really understand theatre so we're childishly starry eyed with any bit of old crap we're fortunate enough to see because anythings better than being indoors siding pots and blacking the front step. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 29, 2017 15:31:26 GMT
Perhaps people's expectations are higher in London, at the Palladium AND at West End prices? These would be the expectations of those theatregoers who kept WWRY in situ for 14 years? |
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jun 29, 2017 15:31:47 GMT
I saw this first in Plymouth when it started the short tour. It is and was a very good family show and received very good reviews. The sets built by the Theatre Royal were a great reflection of the riverbank and homes. IF they had copied something like the Nationals depiction of the homes in their version of Willows, you all would have said "oh cant come up with something original". Once you have heard the music a couple of times there are some good songs there. I was also there on Wednesday and thought Chris did a great job as toad and was far better the Mr Hound, especially as he had not run through the show before. There were quite a few changes in most scenes from Plymouth - I did feel a bit of over kill on the weasels and stoats with what seemed longer musical scenes with them. The part where (asmdsmsandm) says girls came to the front of the stage and sang a song - they were supposed to be "air-hostesses" - swallows flying back for summer. Also the hedgehog song is good and something a bit different to bring them into the story with a bit of humour - also a lot of the animals sang their own bits during the show. This board is all about discussion about shows and is very interesting to read, but remember not everyone goes to shows many times a week or month as people who can get into London easily can. Further afield from London it is a night out for most a couple of times a year - so please remember a lot go to sit and be entertained for an evening without thinking of the deeper places of the story. Yes they would say "that wasn't very good" or "a bit slow", but most would go and tell friends "I really enjoyed that". I expect to be slapped down for this and I also don't like some shows I have seen but I feel a tour of this would do well in the sticks more than London. I just say what I feel. I don't go looking to rip a show to shreds and have often enjoyed "unpopular" shows. But if I don't enjoy a show I'm not one to hold back. I am glad you enjoyed it and personally wish I had done so too. Each to their own - and on to the next one |
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 29, 2017 15:36:56 GMT
Also, looking back through this thread, when this was on tour, the comments on here were really largely positive - but on its move to London, the comments on here have been distinctly middle-of-the-road to negative (and then some). I wonder why this is?? Because we're a bit thick and poor oop north and don't really understand theatre so we're childishly starry eyed with any bit of old crap we're fortunate enough to see because anythings better than being indoors siding pots and blacking the front step. Ummmm your words, not mine!! Haha. It was a genuine question - groupbooker said above that most of the scenes had quite a few changes in them from when they saw it in Plymouth (which I guess was also the same at the other venues on the tour), and even said that some sections were overkill, so that's more what I was hinting at - maybe those changes were not for the better! |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jun 29, 2017 16:49:53 GMT
I now really want to see this as I love train wreck musicals It's not a train wreck.. it's just bloody boring and mediocre. |
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jun 29, 2017 17:07:33 GMT
I now really want to see this as I love train wreck musicals It's not a train wreck.. it's just bloody boring and mediocre. This. Like I said in my review, it's not like you sit there laughing at how unintentionally dreadful it is (Exposure: The Musical). You sit there bored out of your wits, hoping for a combine harvester to come along and cause a countryside animal massacre. It's boring and, in my eyes, there is no bigger crime in a musical. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 29, 2017 18:05:10 GMT
It's not a train wreck.. it's just bloody boring and mediocre. It's boring and, in my eyes, there is no bigger crime in a musical. [ The casting of Marti Pellow? |
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Post by SageStageMgr on Jun 29, 2017 18:08:14 GMT
It's boring and, in my eyes, there is no bigger crime in a musical. [ The casting of Marti Pellow? That subverts the entire legal system and becomes an ethical dilemma. |
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 29, 2017 22:03:33 GMT
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Post by lonlad on Jun 30, 2017 1:31:33 GMT
Dire stuff. A show in which precisely nothing whatsoever happens. Rufus Hound is bludgeoningly charmless.
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Post by wickedgrin on Jun 30, 2017 3:23:41 GMT
Those reviews are a disastrous! Its a good job it's a limited run! The Palladium is huge theatre to fill.
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Post by Seriously on Jun 30, 2017 3:28:08 GMT
I expect the posters will be filled with random twitter quotes, and "5 stars - West End Wilma".
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