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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 7, 2019 14:15:42 GMT
I think there is a significant difference between having a open door policy to encourage visitors to your foyer space and facilitating an alternative work space/long term hangout spot.
The first I fully support - and that can be encouraged by free exhibitions/performances that reinforce the central aim of the the building - the celebration of great theatre.
I am not as convinced that the foyer space should be used as a place for people to work for a few hours. Fine to pop in and have a meeting or do half an hour on your laptop as you wait for the show to start. But I do not see it is the role of any theatre to provide workspaces for those who want them.
It is a tricky balance - of that there is no doubt.
The new(ish) Weston Library here in Oxford has a fairly decent cafe space in the lobby as well as free exhibition spaces - so it is a very open, welcoming place in that regard. But they also make the cafe a work-free zone - no laptops/tablets permitted. It means that the cafe space has a good turnover of clientele through the day.
A foyer or lobby in a theatre has a primary role - and that is a gathering place for audience members prior to the performances starting, during the interval and then as a post-show gathering spot. Yes, it makes sense to use that space as fully as possible through the entire time that the theatre building is open. But I am not sure encouraging people to use it as an all-day free office space is the best way of doing that.
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Post by Jon on Jan 7, 2019 14:31:31 GMT
Oh I have to disagree on the coffee. Not least because the NT coffee is like crack to me and I will actually riot if they change it. On a serious note, I don't believe a subsidised building like the NT should outsource it's currently independent (well in-house) coffee shops to a national chain. That and Nerro Coffee is so weak it can barely be described as coffee. But again that's the coffee snob in me talking. I don’t mind the Espresso Bar and actually the fact the National keeps it in house rather than outsource it to the likes of Benugo is a good thing |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jan 7, 2019 14:57:08 GMT
Please don’t franchise the Coffee spaces out or in actual fact anything #downwithcapitalism
But please clearly label the walkways so people know about them and use them. The fading yellow line at the Barbican is very good and using something similar at the Southbank & NT could work wonders
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 15:27:34 GMT
On a side note, turning lobbies into vibrant public spaces (that also generate revenue) is a big trend among hotels right now.
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Post by Backdrifter on Jan 7, 2019 17:28:17 GMT
I don't believe a subsidised building like the NT should outsource it's currently independent (well in-house) coffee shops to a national chain. That and Nerro Coffee is so weak it can barely be described as coffee. But again that's the coffee snob in me talking. You're not being a "coffee snob". You're being someone who likes coffee to actually taste of, you know, coffee. It's a maverick view I share and it extends to tea as well (which I want to taste like tea, of course). I see people make tea by dipping a tea bag momentarily into hot water then flooding it with so much milk it looks like milk. Obviously fine if that's what you prefer, but.... anyway, never mind. The NT coffee is indeed pretty good and should be kept as it is. This thread is brilliant! |
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Post by Backdrifter on Jan 7, 2019 17:43:35 GMT
On a side note, turning lobbies into vibrant public spaces (that also generate revenue) is a big trend among hotels right now. Yes, good point, I have noticed that now you mention it. I wonder if that too is a decision taken by people saturated in middle-class guilt and self-loathing. Those hotels should be careful. Before they know it, freeloading interlopers will establish entire permanent office spaces in those lobbies, complete with allocated workstations, interactive whiteboards and video conferencing, water-cooler gossip sessions, secret santas, appraisals and a weary boss calling people in to sack them. Just like in the NT public spaces, I gather. |
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Post by Jon on Jan 7, 2019 17:43:59 GMT
I think there is a significant difference between having a open door policy to encourage visitors to your foyer space and facilitating an alternative work space/long term hangout spot. The first I fully support - and that can be encouraged by free exhibitions/performances that reinforce the central aim of the the building - the celebration of great theatre. I am not as convinced that the foyer space should be used as a place for people to work for a few hours. Fine to pop in and have a meeting or do half an hour on your laptop as you wait for the show to start. But I do not see it is the role of any theatre to provide workspaces for those who want them. It is a tricky balance - of that there is no doubt. The new(ish) Weston Library here in Oxford has a fairly decent cafe space in the lobby as well as free exhibition spaces - so it is a very open, welcoming place in that regard. But they also make the cafe a work-free zone - no laptops/tablets permitted. It means that the cafe space has a good turnover of clientele through the day. A foyer or lobby in a theatre has a primary role - and that is a gathering place for audience members prior to the performances starting, during the interval and then as a post-show gathering spot. Yes, it makes sense to use that space as fully as possible through the entire time that the theatre building is open. But I am not sure encouraging people to use it as an all-day free office space is the best way of doing that. A work free policy might be a solution for the National although very difficult to implement because I'm sure that the creatives probably use the foyers to makes notes and discuss a production which is in previews or upcoming. I alway wondered if the National felt the loss of ITV leaving their HQ nearby as I suspect they likely got a lot of trade for the Espresso Bar, The Understudy or Kitchen from people popping in before shows being recorded or just meetings from companies to commissioners |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 7, 2019 18:00:52 GMT
Perhaps one option is to cap internet usage on the free network to a fixed daily amount - that could be a workable compromise to reduce the number of people who might be perceived as overstaying their welcome.
Again, a local example of this is the free wifi provided on the Oxford Tube. That is a capped daily amount (not enough for me to use it on both legs of a return trip in one day)
It would allow for reasonable usage and encourage shorter trips whilst not discouraging occasional, necessary use. Of course, internal users could use their own network.
I don't know how much of an issue working like this is - but it would be a simple and easily enforced solution. It doesn't stop those with their own Mi-fi set ups - but it would be a start
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Post by n1david on Jan 9, 2019 17:16:13 GMT
The majority of theatres and certainly most West End theatres do not have public spaces, only one or two tiny bars and a foyer which are open to ticket-holders only immediately before a show. I see that following the completion of the refurbishment, the Theatre Royal Drury Lane will have public FOH available all day for coffee, drinks, etc. The theatre management seek to make the theatre "a destination venue in its own right." www.thestage.co.uk/news/2019/45m-theatre-royal-drury-lane-refurbishment-to-create-flexible-auditorium/ |
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Post by sf on Jan 9, 2019 17:49:13 GMT
The majority of theatres and certainly most West End theatres do not have public spaces, only one or two tiny bars and a foyer which are open to ticket-holders only immediately before a show. I see that following the completion of the refurbishment, the Theatre Royal Drury Lane will have public FOH available all day for coffee, drinks, etc. The theatre management seek to make the theatre "a destination venue in its own right." www.thestage.co.uk/news/2019/45m-theatre-royal-drury-lane-refurbishment-to-create-flexible-auditorium/
And this, to tie this to a conversation in another thread, might be a viable location for a pop-up shop along the lines of Dress Circle.
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Post by duncan on Jan 10, 2019 9:43:59 GMT
Maybe former actress Rachel Markle will give it a bit of a springclean in her new role.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2019 21:39:41 GMT
What a brilliant thread! And just so British.
Is almost as good as the one last year where we revealed who did and didn't have bladders that could face a no interval Follies.
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Post by lynette on Jan 11, 2019 20:22:14 GMT
Maybe former actress Rachel Markle will give it a bit of a springclean in her new role. Well considering they used to put in new toilets to wherever the Queen visited, the least we can expect is clean toilets. I hope we see a lot of the new royal at the theatre, though of course when little new royal she might have to stay at home for a while. But o, think of the great children's theatre ...... |
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Post by caa on Jan 19, 2019 8:48:44 GMT
I still miss the foyer music and probably spend less time at the NT. I also think that the book shop is full of tat!
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Post by shady23 on Jan 19, 2019 21:27:54 GMT
The next time I am in the NT sheltering from the cold, using the wifi or using the "facilities" I will also be purchasing a coffee, due to the overwhelming recommendations on this thread.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Jan 19, 2019 21:32:13 GMT
I still miss the foyer music and probably spend less time at the NT. I also think that the book shop is full of tat! I absolutely agree that the old book shop was far better - it was a regular destination for me in search of scripts. Now it is more of a gift shop. Having said that, the RSC shop offering is also woeful. The RSC shop should be a haven for those seeking books about Shakespeare and his contemporaries. Yes, there is a place for tourist tat - but that can be elsewhere in the building. I would love to curate a collection of books for the RSC! (And the Nash too!) |
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Post by joem on Jan 19, 2019 21:40:22 GMT
End of the day the NT is a theatre, at least that's what it says in the name, so it does seem like a pity that at times people who are going to the theatre cannot enjoy the facilities because they are being hogged by people who are not going to the theatre.
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Post by sf on Jan 19, 2019 21:51:16 GMT
End of the day the NT is a theatre, at least that's what it says in the name, so it does seem like a pity that at times people who are going to the theatre cannot enjoy the facilities because they are being hogged by people who are not going to the theatre.
As someone who goes to the theatre there several times a year, pays for a membership, and travels some distance to get to London - which means I usually arrive at the National very early for a show, get lunch or a coffee or both, browse the bookshop and maybe buy something, look at the exhibition spaces etc, and check my bag in to the cloakroom - I do not ever remember feeling that I "cannot enjoy the facilities because they are being hogged by people who are not going to the theatre". The worst I can say is that I've occasionally had to walk a little further with a cup of coffee to find a place to sit down.
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Post by NeilVHughes on Jan 19, 2019 23:01:41 GMT
For me the National is the hub of Theatre in London and find it the perfect place to chill between plays whether at the National or not.
Today was a perfect example, a matinee at Jermyn St and an evening performance at the Young Vic.
A natural place to while away the couple of hours between plays, an opportunity to support the Theatre financially, a revenue stream gaining in importance as funding continues to be squeezed.
When you think about it the foyer is only required for the 45 minutes prior to a show and the inconvenience if it exists is a price I am welcome to take to have the use of such a special space.
In another thread,vaguely remember something about our aversion to stairs, the balconies, terrace spaces etc are rarely fully utilised and in the summer are especially pleasant outdoor spaces to experience the Southbank.
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Post by TallPaul on Jan 21, 2019 16:44:54 GMT
The worst I can say is that I've occasionally had to walk a little further with a cup of coffee to find a place to sit down. Some regulars (myself included) take a pride in knowing the venue so well, that we know where the quiet places are. It's different for you though, TM. You can literally hang about anywhere. 🙂 |
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Post by peggs on Jan 21, 2019 18:00:30 GMT
True, and those light-fittings are comfy. Must play havoc with the coffee though |
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Post by Backdrifter on Jan 21, 2019 18:14:14 GMT
End of the day the NT is a theatre, at least that's what it says in the name, so it does seem like a pity that at times people who are going to the theatre cannot enjoy the facilities because they are being hogged by people who are not going to the theatre.
As someone who goes to the theatre there several times a year, pays for a membership, and travels some distance to get to London - which means I usually arrive at the National very early for a show, get lunch or a coffee or both, browse the bookshop and maybe buy something, look at the exhibition spaces etc, and check my bag in to the cloakroom - I do not ever remember feeling that I "cannot enjoy the facilities because they are being hogged by people who are not going to the theatre". The worst I can say is that I've occasionally had to walk a little further with a cup of coffee to find a place to sit down.
Even before moving out of London I was rarely using the NT for just stopping off to browse and graze etc. But now when I'm in town I'll make a point of doing just that, so I can experience the naughty buzz of being inconsiderate and 'hoggy'. |
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Post by sf on Jan 21, 2019 18:17:32 GMT
As someone who goes to the theatre there several times a year, pays for a membership, and travels some distance to get to London - which means I usually arrive at the National very early for a show, get lunch or a coffee or both, browse the bookshop and maybe buy something, look at the exhibition spaces etc, and check my bag in to the cloakroom - I do not ever remember feeling that I "cannot enjoy the facilities because they are being hogged by people who are not going to the theatre". The worst I can say is that I've occasionally had to walk a little further with a cup of coffee to find a place to sit down.
Even before moving out of London I was rarely using the NT for just stopping off to browse and graze etc. But now when I'm in town I'll make a point of doing just that, so I can experience the naughty buzz of being inconsiderate and 'hoggy'.
Later this year I've got a day booked where I'm seeing a performance in the Dorfman in the afternoon and a performance in the Olivier in the evening. If I take a coffee into the lobby area from the espresso bar between shows, perhaps I should pin my tickets to my shirt so that the more judgmental participants in this discussion, should they be passing, don't assume I'm just one of the Great Unwashed who is only there for the free wifi.
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Post by Backdrifter on Jan 21, 2019 18:29:10 GMT
Even before moving out of London I was rarely using the NT for just stopping off to browse and graze etc. But now when I'm in town I'll make a point of doing just that, so I can experience the naughty buzz of being inconsiderate and 'hoggy'.
Later this year I've got a day booked where I'm seeing a performance in the Dorfman in the afternoon and a performance in the Olivier in the evening. If I take a coffee into the lobby area from the espresso bar between shows, perhaps I should pin my tickets to my shirt so that the more judgmental participants in this discussion, should they be passing, don't assume I'm just one of the Great Unwashed who is only there for the free wifi.
That'll mean you can sit back and smile while I'm frogmarched out by the Prole Police. Struggling and shouting "You all think you're better than me?!" and "Our common goal should be a society WITHOUT CLASSES!" |
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Post by lynette on Jan 22, 2019 17:23:15 GMT
God luck finding a chair.
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