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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 15:17:55 GMT
I'm with Honoured Guest. If the affiliates included places like Bristol or Sheffield or Leicester or Stratford-upon-Avon or Manchester or even *gasp* Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland, then it would be fair enough to say "British theatre". But even the non-SOLT theatres in the Oliviers are in London. The Oliviers don't show off all of the best of London theatre, but they're even further away from showing off the best of UK theatre. You could make a case for them showcasing regional theatre with Our Ladies Of Perpetual Succour and The Girls, but it's a half-case at best, as they wouldn't have got a look-in at all if they hadn't come to London.
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Post by theplaymirrorslife on Apr 12, 2017 15:35:25 GMT
It's no surprise that airing an award show two days after everyone knows the results gets bad ratings. The fact that people in London were barely watching just proves that even theatre fans couldn't be bothered. Air it live and there will be an improvement. It's that simple. Hold the awards on a Tuesday if you have to. Agree that airing live would be best. Trouble is that I think they are stuck with Sundays as most performers in ongoing shows are likely to be committed for other nights. However it might be worth exploring. Agreed it would be better live. It's not as simple as just doing it live though - I guess it would need a lot more investment (financial, operational and rehearsal) from SOLT, the performing companies taking part and ITV to get the show into a place where it could be aired live. I hope that's the direction of travel though - whatever opinions anyone might have about how things are as they stand (yes lots of things could be done better!), the scale and profile of the Oliviers is much higher than they were a few years ago. Although we might quibble about the ITV viewing figures, I've just checked on their Facebook page - the pre show 'Facebook Live Red Carpet Show' thing they did has had nearly 3m views! Even taking into account some multiple viewings this is pretty impressive. (OK we can debate whether this is about celebrity / frocks or whether it is a genuine excitement about the 'buzz' of a theatre awards event - but it shows that there are untapped markets to be mined!)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2017 17:13:45 GMT
Well let's agree to disagree. Not good enough - you are factually incorrect! As an explanatory example, Our Ladies of Perpetual Succour was this year declared to be Best Comedy when it was presented at the NT which is a SOLT member. The previous year, the same production wasn't eligible for the Oliviers because it didn't play in London. It hasn't miraculously become the best of British theatre in its second year. Instead, it has been shown in an eligible venue in London and judged the best theatre in an eligible SOLT venue. It's just a fact that the Oliviers are not the best of British theatre, but are the insider-chosen "best" of SOLT member (and sometimes also affiliate) London theatres.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 12, 2017 20:47:57 GMT
What was with them saying "At Savoy Theatre" not at THE Savoy Theatre? So infuriating.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 1:16:10 GMT
But my main takeaway is the dreadful Magic radio duo - so patronising and woefully under-prepared. Final comment re Groundhog Day winning: "I'm very surprised... I haven't seen it though." Says it all really! I thought exactly the same about them. They also kept talking unnecessarily over some parts. From what I remember from the last time it was broadcast on radio (on BBC Radio 2 in 2013 - I could be wrong), pretty much the only thing the presenter had to say throughout the whole ceremony was; "He (Lee Evans) is eating the Olivier Award."
...and that was it! One of my favourite moments in the past 5/6 years I've been paying attention to the Oliviers. That and now Nathan Lane talking about Gogglebox.
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Post by daniel on Apr 13, 2017 1:23:16 GMT
What was with them saying "At Savoy Theatre" not at THE Savoy Theatre? So infuriating. This was also doing my absolute nut in. I think they were just using the theatres' official names. Obviously some (National, Old Vic) have the The as part of the title but a lot of them don't, even though we usually say it. Still, I don't understand why they didn't say THE Savoy Theatre...just sounded daft without it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 7:56:16 GMT
Still, I don't understand why they didn't say THE Savoy Theatre...just sounded daft without it. Interesting point made by the daniel.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 9:42:37 GMT
Still, I don't understand why they didn't say THE Savoy Theatre...just sounded daft without it. Interesting point made by the daniel. I agree with Dan, when Kinky Boots was nominated last year, they referred to it as The Adelphi, why can't they do the same with The Savoy?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 10:04:55 GMT
One of my favourite moments in the past 5/6 years I've been paying attention to the Oliviers. That and now Nathan Lane talking about Gogglebox. Hopefully that moment will be feature on Gogglebox this week, with the pair from Brighton reacting to their mention. Would be great.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2017 12:45:36 GMT
One of my favourite moments in the past 5/6 years I've been paying attention to the Oliviers. That and now Nathan Lane talking about Gogglebox. Hopefully that moment will be feature on Gogglebox this week, with the pair from Brighton reacting to their mention. Would be great. Holy crap, that would be SO so meta. Then they should play Nathan Lane's reaction to that...then their reaction to THAT and so on, and so on.
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Post by Dawnstar on Apr 15, 2017 18:18:10 GMT
Audra's "Over The Rainbow" outstanding - she should be hired to do it every year. I didn't like the way ITV cut to several close-ups of her during the song. The focus should have been on the list of people being remembered, not on her. Since I dislike the song I can't really comment on her singing. Did Rebecca Trehearn winning Best Supporting Actress actually make in to ITV? Thinking back I have no recollection of seeing her getting the award, although I may have just missed it when I kept hitting mute for the ads & annoying bits.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 22:37:51 GMT
Rebecca was in an "also won" segment, we didn't get the whole shebang, just a snippet of her speech.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 9:47:38 GMT
Gosh. What a dull show. Audra and Nathan must have wondered what they'd stepped into after having experienced the Tonys. Amber Riley was the only thing worth watching out of the performances. It's a show like this that makes you grateful to whoever invented the fast forward button.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 9:49:53 GMT
Rebecca was in an "also won" segment, we didn't get the whole shebang, just a snippet of her speech. That was pretty poor really. Of course the two Harry Potter supporting actors were shown in full. Did JK Rowling sponsor the show perchance?
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Post by bellboard27 on Apr 16, 2017 12:07:11 GMT
Rebecca was in an "also won" segment, we didn't get the whole shebang, just a snippet of her speech. That was pretty poor really. Of course the two Harry Potter supporting actors were shown in full. Did JK Rowling sponsor the show perchance? Since Hogwarts became a free school it is now obliged to get all the attention.
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Post by Dawnstar on Apr 16, 2017 14:48:47 GMT
Rebecca was in an "also won" segment, we didn't get the whole shebang, just a snippet of her speech. I must have blinked & missed her then.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 16:18:17 GMT
I must have blinked & missed her then. Blink faster next year, to be sure of a glimpse of everything.
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Post by loureviews on Apr 17, 2017 19:14:19 GMT
Just caught up with the highlights show. Very ho hum.
Ok, Amber Riley has a good set of pipes, and Tyrone Huntley wasn't bad, but The Girls, School of Rock, and Groundhog Day didn't wow me, and that excerpt from The Red Shoes just didn't work.
Not convinced the RAH is the right venue for this, and Jason Manford was a frankly weird host.
Very odd too that they don't show bits from nominated plays any more.
Oh and you just don't cut away from the tribute bit to show close-ups of the singer.
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Post by Nicholas on Apr 18, 2017 15:05:42 GMT
“One more year in Yorkshire, January, February, April, May, September and July...” Does Gary Barlow not know his months? Blimey, opening with that song, it was going to be a long night. And it was...
As per usual, the Oliviers muck it up royally. I’m happy enough with the awards given the shortlist, but by god did they muck up the shortlist, and then, well, the three certainties in life are death, taxes and a bad Oliviers ceremony.
Let’s start with how they mucked it up on the TV – we Brits just can’t do awards, can we? The Baftas are always laughable, but they make the Oliviers look good – and lest we forget, the 2017 British Film Awards, celebrating predominantly American cinema, began by filling a music hall with a French circus. The key difference between the Tonys and the Oliviers is that self-doubt hasn’t reached the Tonys yet. Yes, the Tonys celebrate only a few square kilometres of theatre, but when Neil Patrick Harris says theatre isn’t just for the gays or the Jews or the sad embittered malcontents who write the reviews, but is for the kid in the middle of nowhere who’s sitting there living for Tony performances, no-one rolls their eyes. Here, Jason Manford let us know he’s overweight, so that kid in the middle of nowhere can go suck it, they ain’t famous. There, musicals are art. Here, we still portray musicals as naff expensive events, even as we celebrate Murder Ballads and Threepenny Operas. So if you’re not from one of a handful of London theatres, you’re dirt. Hell, here if you’re not in Angels in America, you’re dirt. I wish that weren’t true, but look at how they introduced these grand stars of theatre. How lovely would it have been to make reference to Nathan Lane’s being involved in The Frogs at a London theatre. But no. How lovely would it have been to make reference to Charlotte Richie’s being involved in The Philanthropist at one of SOLT’s smaller but still-nominated theatres. But no. How lovely would it have been to make reference to Cush Jumbo’s being involved in Common at perhaps SOLT’s biggest theatre. But no.
It’s the small moments that are the most telling – for some weird reason they’d roped in Rose Leslie to give an award, and introduced her as “an actress making a splash in Game of Thrones”. Would, um, “an actress making a splash in Game of Thrones, most recently seen in an exciting new play at the Sheffield Crucible” have been more relevant? Have been more informative? Have promoted theatre? But no. I don’t think anyone involved knew. I don’t think anyone involved actually cares. About any theatre. ITV. Primetime(ish). SOLT may be the Society of LONDON Theatre, but it’s been given an advert to tell the whole nation “No, theatre isn’t the snobby expensive London luvvie event you think it is – look at the biggest London theatre, the starriest London theatre, the best London theatre, it’s shows in Sheffield, No Man’s Land on tour and in cinemas, TCAABR from the fringe, The Girls in Yorkshire, Perpetual Succour in Scotland, it’s theatre of the regions, local to you”. What an inspiring, populist message to effortlessly give on a relatively broad scale! And instead, let alone forgetting London theatre’s (inter)nationality (without which it both creatively and financially dies), the Society of London Theatre forgets to mention a great actress like Cush Jumbo appearing at London’s National Theatre. Usually they just neglect regional and fringe theatre. This year they neglect their own! It’s pathetic.
Prize-wise, they were fine, given the cruddy nominees. I can’t get over some horribly egregious omissions (more in a sec), and of course smaller but superior shows like The Flick were always going to be overshadowed, but... Actually, let me swallow my pride and anger over omissions and deep deep love for particularly The Flick and say you know what? Potter deserved them all. Like Latecomer said – it’s a load of people whose work we’ve loved in the past doing their best work, so what if it’s populist? You put someone like John Tiffany at the helm (someone who, a few years ago, was more of an industry secret when he deservedly won for Black Watch), and give him loads of money and six hours, and of course he’ll deserve best director! He’ll pick the best collaborators and give them all that money and time, so clearly Potter deserved every single technical award possible. Jack Thorne writes it, so the script is (if knotty and plotty and less than Annie Baker) witty, sensitive, and genuinely brings big themes of little lives to larger-than-life characters in the humanising way only theatre can. And Noma and Jamie are just great actors – and hey, when Jamie Parker wins another Olivier in two or three years (more deserved, only a matter of time), then this one will be Harry’s, and that one will be ‘his’ Olivier. It’s impossible to begrudge so many great talents doing such great work going rewarded, other than churlishness towards the childishness of Rowling’s twenty-year-old children’s book.
After Potter, I didn’t love Yerma – a flimsy and psychologically shallow interpretation of a problematic play simply to get some (admittedly terrific) Dogme grandstanding in as it ends – but Billie Piper’s been deservedly validated as the extraordinary actress that she is. And hey, if Rebecca Trehearn won, something is right in the world.
The problem is the nominations themselves are bullsh*t, which made this prizes no more than the best of a bad bunch. A ‘best cast’ category would have seen the Perpetual Succour girls, and indeed The Girls, face up against The Flick trio and the Chekhov trilogy, deservedly; no ‘best cast’ category makes those cast nominations laughable. Not nominating Danny Sapini, or Yael Farber, or Les Blancs, reeks of ‘not famous enough’/’we’ve forgotten that, it was almost a year ago’. And the Genie! The most obvious and deserving winner! What?!?!?!
But there are two particularly unforgivable, frankly stupid omissions. Let’s start with Lazarus, though not for the award(s) you think. Best new musical? Possibly. Best supporting actress/actor? Absolutely. But ‘Outstanding Achievement in Music’? The one won a few years ago by Ray Davies, for doing nothing new but having once written the Ray Davies songbook? DAVID BOWIE wrote a musical from the David Bowie songbook. He even wrote kick-ass brand new music. Ignoring the headline-grabbing, wish-fulfilling, undoubtedly emotional moment that would have come from giving the late great man his much-desired theatre award, he deserved it. The Oliviers have implicitly said Ray Davies is better than David Bowie, and explicitly said that Lord Lloyd Webber’s 9-year-olds are. How was THAT back-catalogue NOT NOMINATED AT ALL?
But (moralising) I think they got not only best actress and best director, but the special award, completely wrong (also caveat – I also got it completely wrong, THIS was the best show of 2016). I think that in years to come we’ll realise just how significant Julius Caesar turned out to be, then how gloriously The Tempest wrapped up our years of personal investment in such a political way. In a year when Emma Rice did what she did so well, where Michelle Terry has that prosthetic in Cleansed only to go to Henry V, and where King Lear is one of our four best actresses, an all-female The Tempest almost feels old-hat – though that really is because Julius Caesar now IS old hat, as all things once new grow old. It’s worth saying that whilst Rice and Maxine Peake and Deborah Warner probably would have pushed for these shows and gender-bending regardless of Phyllida Lloyd, plenty wouldn’t (I don’t think Posh would have, and I have my doubts about Henry V). It’s worth saying, though, that those shows got off scott-free, whereas there was something about Julius Caesar that touched such a techy nerve that meant it bore the brunt of reviews comparing it to dancing dogs (let alone reliable Tim Walker), so these later shows came with barely a batted eye (or less frequently batted but still batted eyes, and instead more nuanced comments on the subject). It’s worth saying, after all that, that Julius Caesar was simply amazing – then Henry IV was pretty close – then The Tempest was amazing again. As Caesar developed into The Tempest, though, I think its least interesting aspect is its treatment of gender. Throughout the trilogy, the diversity of everything BUT gender – age, race, nationality, body type, even professionalism – is more radical, more novel, and hopefully more influential too – if Dame Harriet Walter can be Leah Harvey’s father, any comments about the validity of diversity and ethnicity (of which 2016 saw too many) seem even more ludicrous, even less grounded in any kind of reality. Even in this year’s nomination for Glenda, let alone the way most all-female/cross-casting is now a non-event, I think we saw some validation of 2013’s initial influential work; but what these shows were ultimately about was the way in which theatre not only can, but MUST, connect with people from every corner in every situation, must be available to all, must speak to and be given to those in need. Perhaps it’s simply too soon to judge whether it’ll leave the impact I hope, in which case it merely deserved best actress for Walter and best director for Lloyd for being so good; but what Sir Ken did (love him as I do) was a decent West End season, whereas what Lloyd and Walter did was deconstruct any ideas that these plays need to be done in a West End way. Branagh will come back to the theatre and be wonderful-as-always in three, five, ten years, and can deservedly have his award then – what Lloyd and Walter did now deserves adulation.
Ultimately, though, the Oliviers are nothing but a technical exercise and a masturbatory advert. This year they were a bad technical exercise and bad masturbatory advert. Recently, it has been exciting to see the best shows, SOLT theatres and awards attention overlap, and thus to see Robert Icke win for Oresteia or van Hove for View from the Bridge. This year, it was kind of nice to see actors like Freddie Fox and Kate O’Flynn and particularly Jamie Parker – actors we’ve admired since smaller shows for some years now – getting in on this game, finally. And hey, if we do take these as simply an advert, why not advertise theatre to the world via Harry Potter, the stunning end-result of great theatrical collaborations which just so happened to take place under the Harry Potter banner? But a) what cocked-up nominees with which to surround this advert, and b) what a cocked-up ceremony to use as your advert. Good job, Oliviers. You’ve done it again.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 15:47:08 GMT
Are we forgetting, because technically Lazerus was in a newly built theatre, was it eligable?
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Post by Elisa on Apr 18, 2017 16:18:22 GMT
I was able to watch the Oliviers on Facebook (there's a video available only from outside the UK). After 5 minutes (just in time to see Ian McKellen getting a sunflower) I already was bored to death and, knowing the results, I went straight to the end to watch Kenneth Branagh collecting his special award.
I may be odd, but my ideal award (any award) ceremony is: 1. person goes on stage and nominees are announced 2. person announces the winner 3. winner collects award and makes speech 4. repeat points from 1 to 3 till the end
It would probably take no more than 20 minutes. No music, no bits of shows, no blabbering, no nonsense, no nothing. Just the awards.
And it must be live. With or without fillers, but, please, live or I'll never watch it, except maybe for the 2 minutes when my favourite people are on.
I know, I know: the pubblicity, the sponsors, the rubbish... But I can't stand this stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 18:46:42 GMT
I feel bad now... I was making a big deal out of Emma Williams deserving the Olivier because she has been nominated 4 times now, but Haydn Gwynne has never won from 4 nominations either! She was nominated for City of Angels, Billy Elliot, Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown and The Threepenny Opera but has never won!
These poor women! They need to win at some point surely?!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 19:04:00 GMT
Great post Nicholas. You are right, we just don't know how to do award shows. Still cringing over BAFTA not giving this year's Oscar winner one award or even managing to nominate its director. The fact that they still manage to put the Oliviers to shame says it all.
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Post by bellboard27 on Apr 18, 2017 22:53:04 GMT
Are we forgetting, because technically Lazerus was in a newly built theatre, was it eligable? I am not sure. But assuming the Kings Cross is one theatre (3 venues) and In The Heights was previously eligible, then it may well have been.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 13:42:31 GMT
Are we forgetting, because technically Lazerus was in a newly built theatre, was it eligable? I am not sure. But assuming the Kings Cross is one theatre (3 venues) and In The Heights was previously eligible, then it may well have been. No one knows what was eligible. This is the most ridiculous thing about the Oliviers and defines their present lack of credibility. They are a joke. In the olden days, up to about four years ago, when they had eligibility and voting rules, and were not an insider fix, the Olivier Award website published a complete list of all eligible shows.
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