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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 10, 2018 8:39:30 GMT
She did well there. Turned a temper tantrum into becoming a Pankhurst. Good work
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Post by lynette on Sept 10, 2018 9:15:08 GMT
Oooo, this is an interesting one. I’ve read the comments on twitter and the report in today's Telegraph ( don’t judge me) and watched the clip and I have seen that the referee has 'form' as he called out Venus in a previous match and that Serena has 'form' too when she ranted at a lineswoman when she was losing a match sometime before. I feel that a professional sportsperson should have had some psychological training so that they can engage some control when in a stressful situation. And it looks like the referee didn’t handle this well. Could he have called a break for five minutes? The thing is, Serena is a multi millionaire, award winning, record breaking sportswoman and business woman always in the public eye. I’m me, so I do feel I can’t really say she did anything wrong. Billy Jean's point that men are seen differently is possibly true, she sees it certainly. My other thought is, would this have happened at Wimbledon? I don’t think so.
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Post by alece10 on Sept 10, 2018 9:17:05 GMT
She was being a diva
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Post by peggysue on Sept 10, 2018 9:28:45 GMT
I feel sorry for Naomi Osaka as her fantastic win has been totally overlooked
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 9:30:19 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 10, 2018 9:30:19 GMT
My other thought is, would this have happened at Wimbledon? I don’t think so. Love Serena. The answer to who is the greatest tennis player ever, (when the debate is Nadal/Federer/Djokovic) is always Serena Wiliams. But she got this one wrong. Why would Wimbledon be different? Would be the same umpire, same player, same rules, same opponent? Different crowd and not home grand slam pressures?
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2,340 posts
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 9:32:15 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 10, 2018 9:32:15 GMT
I feel sorry for Naomi Osaka as her fantastic win has been totally overlooked This. Crowd booing in her winning presentation was not great to watch
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 9:32:30 GMT
I do support Serena for standing up for herself and making a stand but I can't help but feel sorry for Naomi Osaka as it's completely overshadowed her momentous win. The first Japanese tennis player to win a Grand Slam singles tournament.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 9:35:33 GMT
I feel sorry for Naomi Osaka as her fantastic win has been totally overlooked That's the real problem I have with all of this - the crowd behaved appallingly and all the joy was sucked out of her win because Serena had a rant and grabbed the headlines. I don't disagree that the referee was a bit harsh - he applied the rules exactly as they are, but the problem was he went straight to sanction without giving Serena a couple of warnings first, and warnings normally happen. And I don't disagree that she was treated harshly compared to some male players in the same tournament (though they had different umpires so not a completely straight comparison). That is clearly a problem (so is differing treatment of the top players compared with others) and I have no issue with that being raised in an appropriate manner in the correct forum. But at the end of the day Serena's coach knew he wasn't allowed to coach her but did it anyway (whether she noticed is irrelevant as she is the player on court but he is part of her team so the punishment has to go to her), Serena knew she's not allowed to smash her racquet but did it anyway , and Serena knew it was against the rules to be rude to the umpire but did it anyway so I think it was right for her to be punished, and I think the media are giving her a rather easy ride in many ways over this. She shouldn't have been docked a game, but the code violation point deduction was fair and she overreacted. Once again the media is all about Serena and so little about Naomi Osaka's fantastic achievement, which is not how it should be.
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2,340 posts
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 10:07:55 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 10, 2018 10:07:55 GMT
She wasn't just rude though. She called him a liar which is essentially a cheat, the questioning his integrity wasn't great. But the you'll never umpire on my court was telling. Horrible moment for Serena the veiled threats. Just felt sorry for the young lady in her first grand slam at the other end of the court.
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 10:09:29 GMT
Post by vdcni on Sept 10, 2018 10:09:29 GMT
I think she should have tried to stay a bit calmer but I don't think she was entirely at fault.
Going straight to a hard warning about coaching is very unusual in tennis no matter what the rules say. Normally a player is given a soft warning at the change of ends that their coach looks to be signalling. If it had been a player who had a reputation of coaching I would understand it but Serena is not that player and I very much doubt she was actively seeking coaching. There's footage of the same Umpire giving other players soft warnings in the past so why he chose a grand slam final of all places to do this is beyond me.
The racket smash, nothing he could do about that. It's a clear warning when the racket breaks.
The abuse is what I really don't understand, as many have said, including other players, much worse is said routinely by male players with no action taken. To dock a game at 4-3 in a gran slam final is a mystifying decision.
When Serena had her altercation with one of the lineswoman a few years back then she only had herself to blame, this isn't the case here at all. Shame as the match was just heating up and it detracted from Osaka's victory.
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Post by kathryn on Sept 10, 2018 11:04:00 GMT
I have certainly seen male players penalised for smashing rackets and being rude to umpires. People forget - because he is such a favourite now and became such a great champion - that John McEnroe was fined for his on-court bad behaviour, heavily criticised in the press and parodied in popular culture, nearly kicked out of one Wimbledon tournament, and denied honorary club membership after his first Singles win.
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Post by lynette on Sept 10, 2018 11:25:23 GMT
You are right. McEnroe was embarrassing when he had his tantrum at Wimbledon. Now he is one of the best commentators and probably one of the best players in the modern era. But his tantrum was juvenile compared to Serena's.
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Post by justfran on Sept 10, 2018 11:53:38 GMT
I agree with many of the comments above and I don’t think this was a sexist/anti feminist decision by the umpire. Yes he was being strict but adhering to the rules. Serena has been in the game long enough to know them (and her team too) so it’s such a shame that Osaka’s win has been overshadowed by this. She’s only 20 and this must have been a difficult situation for her and at 36 Serena should have been leading by example with her attitude. Threatening the umpire was equivalent to throwing a celebrity “don’t you know who I am” tantrum.
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Post by joem on Sept 10, 2018 12:05:55 GMT
She was losing badly, she got annoyed and found a way to change the debate from the fact she was being thrashed by a much younger player. It was mean. The sooner she retires the better, she has won it all numerous times and she is increasingly going to get beaten badly like this. She is a great female player but her dominance to an extent reflects the time she has played in did not boast much competitiveness in the female game. Despite her strength and talent it is inconceivable that a player with decreasing mobility, as she has naturally been suffering from in recent years, could have dominated the men's game. I also think it is unfair for the points system to allow top players like her to pick and choose tournaments so they have to play little more than the Grand Slams against players who have had to play far more tournaments.
There were risible suggestions that race was involved. If there was any racism it was in the unfair demonization of Osaka whose only crime was to beat the local favourite.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 12:27:13 GMT
There were two players on that court but everything became all about her, Williams should be fined heavily and I wouldn't be unhappy with a ban of a few weeks as well. Such a display of entitlement was against the spirit of the game and either conscious or unconscious gamesmanship, Osaka should be applauded for not getting drawn in and she deserves an official apology. The crowd made Williams, and the situation, worse, if they can't keep a crowd controlled then the USTA need to be sanctioned and warned against any future similar happenings.
American crowds have a habit of this, you don't get the same at Wimbledon; even with Murray there has always been an appreciation of the other player. Golf crowds are similar and the Ryder cup has, at times, gone the same way too.
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 15:46:49 GMT
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Post by learfan on Sept 10, 2018 15:46:49 GMT
There were two players on that court but everything became all about her, Williams should be fined heavily and I wouldn't be unhappy with a ban of a few weeks as well. Such a display of entitlement was against the spirit of the game and either conscious or unconscious gamesmanship, Osaka should be applauded for not getting drawn in and she deserves an official apology. The crowd made Williams, and the situation, worse, if they can't keep a crowd controlled then the USTA need to be sanctioned and warned against any future similar happenings. American crowds have a habit of this, you don't get the same at Wimbledon; even with Murray there has always been an appreciation of the other player. Golf crowds are similar and the Ryder cup has, at times, gone the same way too. US crowds tend to be hammered as they serve alcohol from early, there has long been talk of banning it from the golf majors. They are also not that knowledgeable. Serena clearly ought to retire but she wants the Grand slam record. Her behaviour was appalling.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 10, 2018 15:53:19 GMT
The Umpire followed the rules. End of.
He didn't deviate from the rules. He enforced them.
Williams behave badly. 3 times. Not once. Not twice. THREE times.
She tried to bully the Umpire. She called the Umpire a thief.
He had no choice but to censure her according to the rules.
This was not sexist. It certainly was not racist.
She was frustrated at her own performance. She took it out on the wrong person. A weaker umpire could have folded. But he stood up and applied the rules without fear or favour.
It is time to retire, it really is. Her career achievements could be overshadowed by her behaviour if she tries this again. She is not a victim. Playing that card undermines real victims.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 15:57:41 GMT
Serena clearly ought to retire but she wants the Grand slam record. Why should she retire? She had a baby a year ago and since then has been in two Grand Slam finals! I'm not sure she's ready for a zimmer frame yet.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 10, 2018 16:02:35 GMT
Serena clearly ought to retire but she wants the Grand slam record. Why should she retire? She had a baby a year ago and since then has been in two Grand Slam finals! I'm not sure she's ready for a zimmer frame yet. Yeah don't want her to retire. Just behave nicely next time, play brilliant tennis and win more grand slams
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 16:06:50 GMT
Post by vdcni on Sept 10, 2018 16:06:50 GMT
Of course Nadal has also told an umpire he wouldn't be working on any of his matches again but didn't get this crap.
The Umpire reacted in an unusually harsh manner as anyone who actually follows tennis would notice. Why he chose to insert himself into a grand slam final I don't know but he contributed to near ruining it.
Unfortunately US Open crowds are normally boozed up though the French Open crowd can be similarly badly behaved.
In 2009 when Serena was also a defaulted a point it was entirely her own fault but that definitely wasn't the case here.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 10, 2018 16:15:47 GMT
She smashed her racquet - that is why she lost a point. That was entirely her fault.
Her coach attempted to coach - that is why she was censured. That was entirely her coach's fault - but the player was right censured.
She then called the umpire a thief - that is clearly against the rules. Following the other two issues, she had a game awarded against her. Fully and completely according to the rules.
She and her coach broke the rules of tennis THREE times in a very short period of time. She then tried to intimidate the umpire and verbally abused him.
Why should she get special treatment? You break the rules, you pay the price whoever you are.
If she can't handle herself within the rules, it is time to leave the stage.
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 16:26:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 16:26:24 GMT
For far too long umpires have bowed down to the stars of the game, allowing them more leeway in their behaviour than lesser talents. This has led to a situation where stars seem to think that the laws of the game are not as necessary for them. I doubt that umpires have been pressured by commercial interests (although you never know) but their treating all players the same, regardless of ranking, gender or whatever is long overdue. You sense some of this approach in other sports too, where money and status gets you an easier ride.
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 16:27:21 GMT
Post by vdcni on Sept 10, 2018 16:27:21 GMT
As I said in my first post - players get coaching all the time and either don't get a warning or get a soft warning first. Why did Serena, who doesn't have a reputation of getting coaching get a hard warning straight away?
Racket smash absolutely fine.
Abuse - again other players, particularly the men, say much worse to umpires all the time and nothing happens. Why on earth choose 4-3 in the second set to give a game penalty and effectively end the match.
Serena didn't get special treatment, she got much harsher treatment than players usually get in tennis. Ok if they want to firm up the rules then do it consistently not out of the blue like this.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 10, 2018 16:35:03 GMT
Coaching is allowed at all other tournaments other than Grand Slams. And another player was penalised for it during the US Open this year - so she was not alone in that.
Her language towards the umpire was unacceptable. Whether others have said the same or worse does not matter a jot - rules are rules and the umpires should be applying them in every instance. She said stuff that went beyond the rules and suffered a penalty as a result.
She does have form for rules violations at the US Open:
2009 US Open semi-final: Already on a warning for racquet abuse earlier in the match, Williams launched into an angry outburst at a lineswoman after she was called for a foot fault which gave Kim Clijsters two match points. She was penalised a point for unsportsmanlike conduct and Clijsters won the match. Williams was placed on a two-year probation period and fined $175,000 (£135,000), reduced to $82,500 (£63,750) if she committed no further major offence through 2011.
2011 US Open final: Williams shouts "come on" as Sam Stosur attempts to return a shot and the point was awarded to the Australian. Williams then verbally abused umpire Eva Asderak and was fined $2,000 (£1,265).
If this leads to a crackdown against all players - fantastic. But rules are rules and you cannot complain if you break the rules and have to pay the price.
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Serena
Sept 10, 2018 16:53:22 GMT
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Post by vdcni on Sept 10, 2018 16:53:22 GMT
Only one other played getting warned in the whole tournament just shows you how rare it is given how much signalling goes on.
And yes standard WTA tournaments have on court coaching which guess what Serena almost never uses.
2009 completely agree Serena was at fault. 2011 it was a clean winner which Stosur had no chance of making and why does Serena's scream get warned while Sharapova's constant screeching goes unremarked by umpires.
So the only question is why does Serena get harsher treatment than the average player.
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