441 posts
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Post by theatreliker on Sept 1, 2018 10:40:45 GMT
I enjoyed reading the play: quite traditional and naturalistic and all that but there's a spectral quality to it that is only slightly hinted at. What it's like in performance, I don't know.
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1,846 posts
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 1, 2018 11:38:19 GMT
Personally appreciate the candour of @parsley.
His strong opinions are an indication of his passion for great Theatre, he may post more negative reviews but when he likes a show (Nine Nights) his appreciation is equally positive.
Most of us on this site see significantly more plays than the average Theatregoer and are most probably indifferent to bad / average plays as we know it comes with the passion, for me the expectation is one good play in 10 and a great one in 25 and on the whole do not comment unless particular poor Obsession and Nightfall come to mind.
Maybe we all need to become a bit more @parsley as the National, Royal Court, Donmar, Almeida etc don’t have to try too hard to get us to open our wallets and we (I) do put up with some dross.
On the hypothetical bus trip to @emicardiff opening night @parsley could be an entertaining person to sit next to.
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4,631 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 1, 2018 13:03:23 GMT
So the play finished at 2105 I got home at 2120 I have just vomited Thrice That’s how bad it is That teach you to go on stage and eat the food, as you pointed out it had been left standing for over 30 minutes and as you said ‘the turkey didn’t look tasty and wasn’t moist.’ Being a doctor I expected you to know that!!!
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Sept 1, 2018 14:13:49 GMT
It’s concerning if anyone, who likes maybe a quarter or less of what they see, doesn’t think about whether the fault lies in themselves and their choices rather than what they watch.
There’s a wider movement in our society to place blame for anything that they think is ‘wrong’ on others (as seen in our debased politics) but that sort of self examination rather than lashing out at others would make people happier, society more constructive and the world a less angry place. Not going to happen I know but change happens one person at a time.
Failing that, see less, make better choices. That, rather than blindly seeing everything, would focus minds in our producing theatres as to whether they are serving their various audiences.
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1,907 posts
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Post by sf on Sept 1, 2018 14:58:46 GMT
Failing that, see less, make better choices. That, rather than blindly seeing everything, would focus minds in our producing theatres as to whether they are serving their various audiences. Or maybe the individual in question could simply try not going to the theatre EXPECTING to sneer at everything he sees.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 16:02:35 GMT
It’s concerning if anyone, who likes maybe a quarter or less of what they see, doesn’t think about whether the fault lies in themselves and their choices rather than what they watch. There’s a wider movement in our society to place blame for anything that they think is ‘wrong’ on others (as seen in our debased politics) but that sort of self examination rather than lashing out at others would make people happier, society more constructive and the world a less angry place. Not going to happen I know but change happens one person at a time. Failing that, see less, make better choices. That, rather than blindly seeing everything, would focus minds in our producing theatres as to whether they are serving their various audiences. It’s concerning to me People buy and wear utter sh*t from the high street And rent a property instead of buying one And eat in places I wouldn’t take a dog As I have said before It depends on how low you are willing to drop your standards And just reassure yourself This is as good as it gets
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4,631 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 1, 2018 16:10:34 GMT
And wear do you do your cloths shopping Paisley, if not the High Street. QVC or Littlewoods catalogue?
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404 posts
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Post by dlevi on Sept 1, 2018 16:37:37 GMT
I was gonna say, if you write off plays based purely on Parsley not liking them, you would have a fairly small number of things you could see each year... Andrew I don't write off plays that quickly, but frankly of my theatre savvy friends in the states and the number of awards the play has received, as well as the fairly healthy Broadway run and the rare national tour for a straight play(in the states) I was simply surprised at how much some of the folks on here hated the evening. To each his own. Hopefully this cast is simply getting used to a different audience response than what they are used to and have been calibrating their performances to this foreign environment.
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4,631 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 1, 2018 17:08:45 GMT
It didn’t deserve the Tony for best play, King Charles III and The Father are far superior - but the two leads do.
This played was the one that got caught up in Isherwoodgate with Scott Rudin, so how genuine the review is, so who knows?
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Sept 1, 2018 17:52:04 GMT
It’s concerning if anyone, who likes maybe a quarter or less of what they see, doesn’t think about whether the fault lies in themselves and their choices rather than what they watch. There’s a wider movement in our society to place blame for anything that they think is ‘wrong’ on others (as seen in our debased politics) but that sort of self examination rather than lashing out at others would make people happier, society more constructive and the world a less angry place. Not going to happen I know but change happens one person at a time. Failing that, see less, make better choices. That, rather than blindly seeing everything, would focus minds in our producing theatres as to whether they are serving their various audiences. It’s concerning to me People buy and wear utter sh*t from the high street And rent a property instead of buying one And eat in places I wouldn’t take a dog As I have said before It depends on how low you are willing to drop your standards And just reassure yourself This is as good as it gets Many people don’t have the money to spend on such luxuries. I would never criticise someone for only appreciating what they can afford to.
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5,269 posts
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 1, 2018 18:02:40 GMT
I have to say that I felt the same after seeing this in NYC. I couldn’t believe the hype around it, and that it (I think ) won the Tony. It is such a mediocre play.cant believe they have gone to the expense of bringing the American cast over. This ain’t the next August Osage County.
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1,465 posts
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Post by foxa on Sept 1, 2018 18:46:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 19:28:15 GMT
It’s concerning to me People buy and wear utter sh*t from the high street And rent a property instead of buying one And eat in places I wouldn’t take a dog As I have said before It depends on how low you are willing to drop your standards And just reassure yourself This is as good as it gets Many people don’t have the money to spend on such luxuries. I would never criticise someone for only appreciating what they can afford to. And equally if someone does attend many plays Or have lots of things It’s not acceptable to criticise them either For having an excess It comes across as sour grapes There is no rule that just because you see many shows You are going to like them all
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 19:42:06 GMT
It’s concerning if anyone, who likes maybe a quarter or less of what they see, doesn’t think about whether the fault lies in themselves and their choices rather than what they watch. There’s a wider movement in our society to place blame for anything that they think is ‘wrong’ on others (as seen in our debased politics) but that sort of self examination rather than lashing out at others would make people happier, society more constructive and the world a less angry place. Not going to happen I know but change happens one person at a time. Failing that, see less, make better choices. That, rather than blindly seeing everything, would focus minds in our producing theatres as to whether they are serving their various audiences. It’s concerning to me People buy and wear utter sh*t from the high street And rent a property instead of buying one And eat in places I wouldn’t take a dog As I have said before It depends on how low you are willing to drop your standards And just reassure yourself This is as good as it gets I'm pleased to hear that you are concerned about people who perhaps have less than you and can only afford high street sh*t or have to rent a property because they are priced out of the market so that they aren't able to buy so I'd be interested to hear what you are doing about that concern P? Are you perhaps campaigning for more affordable housing or to force everyone to pay the national living wage? Are you the bane of your MPs life?
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2,706 posts
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Sept 1, 2018 20:04:24 GMT
Many people don’t have the money to spend on such luxuries. I would never criticise someone for only appreciating what they can afford to. And equally if someone does attend many plays Or have lots of things It’s not acceptable to criticise them either For having an excess It comes across as sour grapes There is no rule that just because you see many shows You are going to like them all Not having much makes you weigh up your choices more though.
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983 posts
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Post by nash16 on Sept 1, 2018 23:29:08 GMT
I was gonna say, if you write off plays based purely on Parsley not liking them, you would have a fairly small number of things you could see each year... Andrew I don't write off plays that quickly, but frankly of my theatre savvy friends in the states and the number of awards the play has received, as well as the fairly healthy Broadway run and the rare national tour for a straight play(in the states) I was simply surprised at how much some of the folks on here hated the evening. To each his own. Hopefully this cast is simply getting used to a different audience response than what they are used to and have been calibrating their performances to this foreign environment. I genuinely think the American audiences got a lot more out of this than British audiences are going to. I may be wrong of course, but it just felt so hollow after going in with the rave notices etc etc.
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1,016 posts
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Post by andrew on Sept 2, 2018 11:59:38 GMT
Anyway.
I saw the play last night as promised and it was actually alright. Not perfect, but good. I really enjoyed the performances, I enjoyed the sound of the cast talking with each other, over each other, I enjoyed how 'lived in' their performances felt. Real people, a real family, with all their weirdnesses and problems.
I won't say too much, but I didn't have any problem with, and quite liked the concept and development regarding the 'noises'.
The problem for me with the play was just that there wasn't enough in it to elevate it to the Tony award heights that were advertised, which is essentially what most people on here are saying. If this hadn't been hyped up from it's initial US run, I wonder if the immediate British reception to it would have been slightly more favourable.
Even if it isn't the greatest play of the decade, it's a solid bit of modern american writing that I'm quite happy to have wandering into one of our smaller theatres with a great cast for a few months. I'm glad I went.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 14:49:57 GMT
Anyway. I saw the play last night as promised and it was actually alright. Not perfect, but good. I really enjoyed the performances, I enjoyed the sound of the cast talking with each other, over each other, I enjoyed how 'lived in' their performances felt. Real people, a real family, with all their weirdnesses and problems. I won't say too much, but I didn't have any problem with, and quite liked the concept and development regarding the 'noises'. The problem for me with the play was just that there wasn't enough in it to elevate it to the Tony award heights that were advertised, which is essentially what most people on here are saying. If this hadn't been hyped up from it's initial US run, I wonder if the immediate British reception to it would have been slightly more favourable. Even if it isn't the greatest play of the decade, it's a solid bit of modern american writing that I'm quite happy to have wandering into one of our smaller theatres with a great cast for a few months. I'm glad I went. And hence my point Some people want more from life Than “It was alright”
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Post by Jan on Sept 2, 2018 15:46:34 GMT
It’s concerning to me People buy and wear utter sh*t from the high street And rent a property instead of buying one And eat in places I wouldn’t take a dog As I have said before It depends on how low you are willing to drop your standards And just reassure yourself This is as good as it gets I'm pleased to hear that you are concerned about people who perhaps have less than you and can only afford high street sh*t or have to rent a property because they are priced out of the market so that they aren't able to buy so I'd be interested to hear what you are doing about that concern P? Are you perhaps campaigning for more affordable housing or to force everyone to pay the national living wage? Are you the bane of your MPs life? Supply-side only policies for affordable housing in London will not work. You need to address the demand side too. Cheap one-bedroom new build flats where I live are predominantly bought by foreign buyers off-plan to rent - if you build more they’ll buy more. Also if you make more cheap housing available in London then more people will move to live here, both from elsewhere in the UK and from overseas, thus quickly returning to the original problem.
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1,187 posts
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Post by theatrelover123 on Sept 2, 2018 16:32:44 GMT
I'm pleased to hear that you are concerned about people who perhaps have less than you and can only afford high street sh*t or have to rent a property because they are priced out of the market so that they aren't able to buy so I'd be interested to hear what you are doing about that concern P? Are you perhaps campaigning for more affordable housing or to force everyone to pay the national living wage? Are you the bane of your MPs life? Supply-side only policies for affordable housing in London will not work. You need to address the demand side too. Cheap one-bedroom new build flats where I live are predominantly bought by foreign buyers off-plan to rent - if you build more they’ll buy more. Also if you make more cheap housing available in London then more people will move to live here, both from elsewhere in the UK and from overseas, thus quickly returning to the original problem. Blimey. Let’s all just keep it light, shall we? Can’t we just go back to talking about jazz hands, tits and teeth and glitz?
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3,471 posts
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Post by showgirl on Sept 2, 2018 17:10:46 GMT
But isn't it interesting that the play has actually led to a discussion about serious current issues such as the shortage of affordable housing?
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382 posts
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Post by stevemar on Sept 2, 2018 17:26:24 GMT
I saw this on Saturday, I guess at the same performance as Andrew. Having written all of the comments above, I think we’re on the same page. I enjoyed this a lot - a very real slice of New York/American life, as the family gathers round with all their imperfections, and individual struggles, but getting together with their family traditions, and spending time together. Even though it might seem quite “American”, my party could certainly identify with many of the themes here, and we could see a bit of their/our own families in this play. So, the themes are pretty universal I think. The acting was very good - particularly the mother and all that she had gone through. The rapport and the way in which the family members spoke to each other - certain tensions, history, judgements and speaking over each other were very real. There was much food for thought here - children making their way in the world, their frustrations and parents’ hopes, as well as lack of understanding of something outside their immediate sphere of experience as the kids “go off to the city.” The disappointments of the American dream where hard work can be undone by circumstance (some made by themselves), the difficult relationship between the two parents, and strain of taking care of an elderly relative. There was a lot of comedy too, particularly in the earlier part of the play. I quite liked the “other worldly” feel. I’d agree that the hype re the Tonys might give an unrealistic level of expectation though. 1hour 35m whizzed by, and I think this worked well in one act rather than just adding an interval for bar takings... A very solid 8/10 for me. A sort of spoiler about the ending below, please don’t click if you are seeing the play. {The ending spoiler} The ending was a little drawn out, but I quite liked that there was no real conclusion, just like life as families just trundle on after each family gathering/Thanksgiving or Christmas.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 17:58:25 GMT
It’s concerning to me People buy and wear utter sh*t from the high street And rent a property instead of buying one And eat in places I wouldn’t take a dog As I have said before It depends on how low you are willing to drop your standards And just reassure yourself This is as good as it gets I'm pleased to hear that you are concerned about people who perhaps have less than you and can only afford high street sh*t or have to rent a property because they are priced out of the market so that they aren't able to buy so I'd be interested to hear what you are doing about that concern P? Are you perhaps campaigning for more affordable housing or to force everyone to pay the national living wage? Are you the bane of your MPs life? Clothes from the High Street can cost a bomb depending on where you shop. Eating junk can be more expensive than cooking from scratch (nail soup anyone?) I’m not sure about the renting vs buying comment as the way things are going - especially in London - most of us soon won’t be able to do either. As for Parsley’s criticisms of plays: I have a sincere wish that Theatre practitioners were smart enough to push writers to do better and to ask them the hard questions before we (and @parsley) do, by which time it is far too late. I agree with @parsley that I have seen too many plays this year where producers seem to have said ok that’ll do or relied on directorial tricks to whip audiences into standing ovations...quite an easy trick when you know how - ask any politician.
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1,187 posts
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Post by theatrelover123 on Sept 2, 2018 19:02:27 GMT
But isn't it interesting that the play has actually led to a discussion about serious current issues such as the shortage of affordable housing? No
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Post by jadnoop on Sept 2, 2018 19:21:46 GMT
The internet seems to have amplified our opinions to the point where reviewing is practcally a binary thing. Every play is either 'the greatest thing ever' or 'so bad I'd rather crawl across broken glass than watch another second'.
The reality is that theatre, like most things in life, sit on a bell curve. In any typical year, there will be a few future classics, a few true duds, and the vast majority will sit somewhere in the middle. The argument could be made that it's 'letting off' mediocrity to accept the vast majority of plays that are simply 'good' or 'fun' or 'enjoyable' without being 'fantastic'. However, I'm not sure that being overly critical is necessarily a 'better' response. Not least because most of us will, by definition be 'only' average in almost everything we do.
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486 posts
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Post by wiggymess on Sept 2, 2018 21:49:01 GMT
But isn't it interesting that the play has actually led to a discussion about serious current issues such as the shortage of affordable housing? Well it would be if it was the play that led to the discussion, it really wasn't.
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486 posts
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Post by wiggymess on Sept 2, 2018 21:51:35 GMT
Anyway. I saw the play last night as promised and it was actually alright. Not perfect, but good. I really enjoyed the performances, I enjoyed the sound of the cast talking with each other, over each other, I enjoyed how 'lived in' their performances felt. Real people, a real family, with all their weirdnesses and problems. I won't say too much, but I didn't have any problem with, and quite liked the concept and development regarding the 'noises'. The problem for me with the play was just that there wasn't enough in it to elevate it to the Tony award heights that were advertised, which is essentially what most people on here are saying. If this hadn't been hyped up from it's initial US run, I wonder if the immediate British reception to it would have been slightly more favourable. Even if it isn't the greatest play of the decade, it's a solid bit of modern american writing that I'm quite happy to have wandering into one of our smaller theatres with a great cast for a few months. I'm glad I went. And hence my point Some people want more from life Than “It was alright” Yes and some people don't refuse to enjoy something if it is not absolute perfection. And apparently some people refuse to engage with the idea that anyone should have a different opinion to theirs.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 6:33:34 GMT
The nature of theatre (the spectacle, the aesthetic values) is such that you CAN enjoy something that doesn't quite work, but that doesn't stop one wanting to discuss the flaws or shortcomings of a particular piece. I've enjoyed almost everything I've seen this year (even thoughI thought quite a few were unfinished and needed to be redrafted) and only found one play so tedious that I had to leave at the interval. I wrote briefly about this experience, but usually try not to be too negative, although I am aware that I've been more negative than usual this year. This discussion begs a question about the purpose of this forum. Are we an extended marketing arm of the theatres we frequent, unable to say anything negative for fear of affecting ticket sales or offending Rufus Norris? Or are we allowed to say whatever we want and in whatever way we choose to do so, knowing that our views are our own and that others are able to make up their own minds? This forum alerts me to interesting productions - although I find that there isn't enough information about Off-West End theatres as we tend to focus on the mainstream. I don't make my choices about what I see based on other people's reviews.
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27 posts
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Post by oldstager on Sept 3, 2018 21:03:03 GMT
I am rather shocked by the negative reaction to this play here. I loved it. The writing is beautiful and the acting is sublime. I laughed and I cried and 90 minutes flew by. Yes, the specifics are American but the general theme is international - the way many (probably the majority) of families function - the heartbreaking ways we screw up our kids lives with only the best of intentions - the devastating way our children have to make their own mistakes as we look on helplessly. And, of course, so many other topics and themes are touched on and treated with humour and sadness and despair. This little play will stay with me for a long time I know. And the majority of tonight's Hampstead audience seemed to tune in to the style very quickly and laughed and reacted vociferously. The cast were visibly delighted by the warm and vocally appreciative reception at curtain call.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 21:52:06 GMT
I am rather shocked by the negative reaction to this play here. I loved it. The writing is beautiful and the acting is sublime. I laughed and I cried and 90 minutes flew by. Yes, the specifics are American but the general theme is international - the way many (probably the majority) of families function - the heartbreaking ways we screw up our kids lives with only the best of intentions - the devastating way our children have to make their own mistakes as we look on helplessly. And, of course, so many other topics and themes are touched on and treated with humour and sadness and despair. This little play will stay with me for a long time I know. And the majority of tonight's Hampstead audience seemed to tune in to the style very quickly and laughed and reacted vociferously. The cast were visibly delighted by the warm and vocally appreciative reception at curtain call. My issue was The entire family are failures And no one had achieved anything I felt embarrassed to have to watch such awful people portrayed Sitting round a plastic table In a sh*t hole Eating food off paper plates The family had little to be shouting about Perhaps if there was even one positive role model Or a character who wasn’t emotionally stunted I might have been more generous
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