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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 14:56:58 GMT
Pies are a political statement. A feminist political statement. Just look at Mrs Lovett, a woman who knows what she wants and goes after it, a true feminist pie-based hero for the ages. Also ate men for breakfast (lunch and dinner). This is a pie based musical crossover I'd pay for. Especially with Gavin Creel. |
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Post by viserys on Sept 25, 2018 15:08:00 GMT
Christ on a bike, if I had known what it would start, I would have left the word feminist out. I am not going into a big public rant here or explain deeply personal stuff that lies behind my thinking. Feminism has so many different forms, even feminist groups are endlessly fighting among each other and each person has their own pet peeves that set them off.
One of my pet peeves is that there are so few musicals in which women are not either just the sidekick to the male hero or have an agenda that doesn't mostly orbit around men and relationships. I listened to Waitress, I read the synopsis, I decided I didn't like the music or the story, so I'm passing on it.
And my comment on people buying chick-lit wasn't meant in a derogatory fashion, I merely pointed out that there's a huge market for these books, so I assume there'll be a similar market for musicals like Waitress. I'm just not part of it and while I might give the show a chance depending on the casting and good discounts, it's just very low on my wish list.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:12:19 GMT
So why not say 'meh it's not for me' like someone else had above you. Perfectly reasonable, as @baemax says, save yourself some money and an evening of theatre.
But you do have the story fundamentally wrong, by dismissing it in the way you (repeatedly) do. As several of us have tried to explain. It's a story about strong women and female friendship but you are being blinded by your own prejudice and assumptions that because it looks like a love story it must be terrible. Given you've made that mistake before about shows/films, not listened then been proven wrong (Heathers anyone) maybe stop being so narrow minded? and also stop boxing 'women who wouldn't mind a happy ending thank you on stage or otherwise' with 'stupid women who aren't feminist' because last time I checked wanting to fall in love or indeed watching others do so for the sake of entertainment wasn't a crime.
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Post by talkstageytome on Sept 25, 2018 15:16:27 GMT
Yes although several romance plotlines do feature quite heavily, I'd say the main story is really about three women striving for happiness, freedom and acceptance. That's certainly why this musical resonates so strongly with me personally.
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2018 15:17:14 GMT
Don't ya just love when men tell women to chill out? it IS political because women's stories don't get told often enough, from a woman's point of view. Also Gilmore Girls was a political statement of a show, even if it was fluffy and light viewing. A thing doesn't have to be inherently political in itself to make a statement. Also pies. That assumes that I’d gone to the trouble of checking profiles to see who is M and who F. I say again, it was a comment on how ‘people’ generally think bringing a political subtext to an argument makes their point more valid. Not telling any women to chill out, nor a Michael Winner style ‘calm down dear, it’s just a commercial’. I’m sure that being a woman is quite dreadful at times, but assuming that I’m some boorish misogynist dinosaur attempting to keep you down is a little wide of the mark and not appreciated. |
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Post by daniel on Sept 25, 2018 15:21:16 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:21:42 GMT
Yes although several romance plotlines do feature quite heavily, I'd say the main story is really about three women striving for happiness, freedom and acceptance. That's certainly why this musical resonates so strongly with me personally. And the baked goods. But yes, certainly that's what struck me on listening to it, and reading the plot/hearing Sara talk about it. The idea that women take control of their lives, and their own happiness rather than relying on men. And that they're an oddball group of people not you know the hot blonde and the dowdy friend. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:22:31 GMT
Don't ya just love when men tell women to chill out? it IS political because women's stories don't get told often enough, from a woman's point of view. Also Gilmore Girls was a political statement of a show, even if it was fluffy and light viewing. A thing doesn't have to be inherently political in itself to make a statement. Also pies. That assumes that I’d gone to the trouble of checking profiles to see who is M and who F. I say again, it was a comment on how ‘people’ generally think bringing a political subtext to an argument makes their point more valid. Not telling any women to chill out, nor a Michael Winner style ‘calm down dear, it’s just a commercial’. I’m sure that being a woman is quite dreadful at times, but assuming that I’m some boorish misogynist dinosaur attempting to keep you down is a little wide of the mark and not appreciated. Fair comment, you managed to wade in just at the point someone else really had my back up, so got the sharp end of my tongue more than you normally would. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:25:30 GMT
Please let Gavin Creel be in it. Please let Gavin Creel be in it. Please let Gavin Creel be in it. Please let Gavin Creel be in it. Please let Gavin Creel be in it. Please let Gavin Creel be in it. Please let Gavin Creel be in it.  |
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Post by viserys on Sept 25, 2018 15:26:04 GMT
So why not say 'meh it's not for me' like someone else had above you. Perfectly reasonable, as @baemax says, save yourself some money and an evening of theatre. But you do have the story fundamentally wrong, by dismissing it in the way you (repeatedly) do. As several of us have tried to explain. It's a story about strong women and female friendship but you are being blinded by your own prejudice and assumptions that because it looks like a love story it must be terrible. Given you've made that mistake before about shows/films, not listened then been proven wrong (Heathers anyone) maybe stop being so narrow minded? and also stop boxing 'women who wouldn't mind a happy ending thank you on stage or otherwise' with 'stupid women who aren't feminist' because last time I checked wanting to fall in love or indeed watching others do so for the sake of entertainment wasn't a crime.
Great, you're talking up a musical about female friendship while then proceeding to launch a very personal attack on me on a public forum just because I happen to dislike a show you like and call me "narrow-minded" and "blinded by prejudice" or put words like "anti-feminist" and "stupid women" into my mouth? Wow, thanks.
I'm outta here now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:30:30 GMT
So why not say 'meh it's not for me' like someone else had above you. Perfectly reasonable, as @baemax says, save yourself some money and an evening of theatre. But you do have the story fundamentally wrong, by dismissing it in the way you (repeatedly) do. As several of us have tried to explain. It's a story about strong women and female friendship but you are being blinded by your own prejudice and assumptions that because it looks like a love story it must be terrible. Given you've made that mistake before about shows/films, not listened then been proven wrong (Heathers anyone) maybe stop being so narrow minded? and also stop boxing 'women who wouldn't mind a happy ending thank you on stage or otherwise' with 'stupid women who aren't feminist' because last time I checked wanting to fall in love or indeed watching others do so for the sake of entertainment wasn't a crime.
Great, you're talking up a musical about female friendship while then proceeding to launch a very personal attack on me on a public forum just because I happen to dislike a show you like and call me "narrow-minded" and "blinded by prejudice" or put words like "anti-feminist" and "stupid women" into my mouth? Wow, thanks.
I'm outta here now.
It's not a 'very personal attack' it's entirely based on the comments you've made. And yes, I do suggest maybe being a little more open minded. It's fine to say 'meh not for me' but maybe refrain from telling people what a show is or isn't when you haven't even seen it! Maybe also don't start a debate about feminist principles of a show if you aren't willing to stand behind what you say. Or admit when you're wrong. |
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Post by talkstageytome on Sept 25, 2018 15:44:04 GMT
Here's a video of Gavin and Sara singing Bad Idea at today's launch!
J'adore 💕
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2018 15:44:45 GMT
Great, you're talking up a musical about female friendship while then proceeding to launch a very personal attack on me on a public forum just because I happen to dislike a show you like and call me "narrow-minded" and "blinded by prejudice" or put words like "anti-feminist" and "stupid women" into my mouth? Wow, thanks.
I'm outta here now.
It's not a 'very personal attack' it's entirely based on the comments you've made. And yes, I do suggest maybe being a little more open minded. It's fine to say 'meh not for me' but maybe refrain from telling people what a show is or isn't when you haven't even seen it! Maybe also don't start a debate about feminist principles of a show if you aren't willing to stand behind what you say. Or admit when you're wrong. This is becoming a rather condescending attack now Emi rather than any sort of debate. Yes, be passionate, but remember we all have limits; that some people are not writing in their mother tongue and may get lost in translation. It’s all getting a bit ‘strong’. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:47:25 GMT
It's not a 'very personal attack' it's entirely based on the comments you've made. And yes, I do suggest maybe being a little more open minded. It's fine to say 'meh not for me' but maybe refrain from telling people what a show is or isn't when you haven't even seen it! Maybe also don't start a debate about feminist principles of a show if you aren't willing to stand behind what you say. Or admit when you're wrong. This is becoming a rather condescending attack now Emi rather than any sort of debate. Yes, be passionate, but remember we all have limits; that some people are not writing in their mother tongue and may get lost in translation. It’s all getting a bit ‘strong’. Look we just made nice....maybe stay out of it? It also feels equally personal when someone condescendingly thinks they're 'above' others because we like the 'silly fluffy musical' and somehow they are more sophisticated, more evolved and more feminist if they don't? And it is strong, because I'm sick of women dragging other women in the name of feminism. I'm sick of being told what I can and cannot like in the name of feminism. And Viserys can write perfectly well in English. |
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2018 15:52:47 GMT
I’ll presume that you made nice privately, which is perhaps where this could have gone several posts ago, instead of doing what you have just complained about. I will ‘butt out’ now on this public message board.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Sept 25, 2018 15:53:30 GMT
I enjoyed the show.. it’s sweet (no pun intended).. but it’s no sock-it-to-em dazzler like Hamilton or Dear Evan Hansen.
I suspect the fact that they aren’t announcing the lead actress till later in the year means that she isn’t famous at all (which is a good thing for the show- but maybe not for ticket sales).
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Post by 49thand8th on Sept 25, 2018 15:56:29 GMT
Yes although several romance plotlines do feature quite heavily, I'd say the main story is really about three women striving for happiness, freedom and acceptance. That's certainly why this musical resonates so strongly with me personally. I get this, although Ogie getting an entire comical song about basically stalking Dawn, pursuing her even though she says no, and then eventually being rewarded for it was a huge turnoff for me. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:58:57 GMT
Yes although several romance plotlines do feature quite heavily, I'd say the main story is really about three women striving for happiness, freedom and acceptance. That's certainly why this musical resonates so strongly with me personally. I get this, although Ogie getting an entire comical song about basically stalking Dawn, pursuing her even though she says no, and then eventually being rewarded for it was a huge turnoff for me. See this is how we discuss the pros and cons of a show! Fair comment indeed (I'm not SO familiar to know the ins and outs of the context of that storyline so not fair to comment, but valid critique) |
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Post by talkstageytome on Sept 25, 2018 16:03:04 GMT
Yes although several romance plotlines do feature quite heavily, I'd say the main story is really about three women striving for happiness, freedom and acceptance. That's certainly why this musical resonates so strongly with me personally. I get this, although Ogie getting an entire comical song about basically stalking Dawn, pursuing her even though she says no, and then eventually being rewarded for it was a huge turnoff for me. Oh my goodness yes I can relate, when I first heard the song I was convinced he was going to be presented as some sort of villain within the show. |
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Post by 49thand8th on Sept 25, 2018 16:03:50 GMT
I'd never seen the film, so I wasn't even sure where that whole Ogie storyline was going. And then it went... nowhere. It's not cute.
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2018 16:06:25 GMT
I enjoyed the show.. it’s sweet (no pun intended).. but it’s no sock-it-to-em dazzler like Hamilton or Dear Evan Hansen. I suspect the fact that they aren’t announcing the lead actress till later in the year means that she isn’t famous at all (which is a good thing for the show- but maybe not for ticket sales). I didn’t realise that. Maybe all is not lost for Ms Dillon!? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 16:59:56 GMT
Here's a video of Gavin and Sara singing Bad Idea at today's launch! J'adore 💕 As well as being as cute as a button and a proud flag waving gayer, I genuinely think that Gavin Creel is one of the best male vocalists around on Broadway. His voice is just completely and utterly delicious. As is he. But that voice. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 18:08:55 GMT
Here's a video of Gavin and Sara singing Bad Idea at today's launch! J'adore 💕 As well as being as cute as a button and a proud flag waving gayer, I genuinely think that Gavin Creel is one of the best male vocalists around on Broadway. His voice is just completely and utterly delicious. As is he. But that voice. Oh f*** me he's got glasses on as well. Be still my beating lady parts. Also I very much have a crush on Sara. This is all just very very good. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 6:12:37 GMT
Can someone explain to me what the fuss about this show is? I saw it in New York as thought it was middle to poor. Plot wasn't interesting, it felt really slow, and the cast were poor (although I have to give it to Katherine McPhee that her dad had died a week or so earlier). I just don't understand the hype (and certainly think the Adelphi is the wrong theatre for it). Agreed! Though would check it out on a discount as always happy to be proved wrong :-) |
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Post by danb on Sept 26, 2018 6:52:25 GMT
I think that ‘theatre-wise’ they are hoping that it’s name & profile will get people through the door to fill it, alongside the advertising and PR onslaught that Dewynters are no doubt printing as we type. I do wonder if they’ve got someone stunty for the doctor, to lead the chat show promo and so that they can cast an MT name in the lead.
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