4,177 posts
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Post by HereForTheatre on Mar 23, 2019 16:03:39 GMT
I'm intrigued as to who the new Celie will be. From Seyi being cast originally they went quite young with her so it will be interesting to see if that was a specific choice or they just liked Seyi and age didn't matter. I wonder if they could even bump someone up from the existing cast?
I have some people in mind who would have been great but they are already in shows!
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1,478 posts
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Post by Steve on Mar 23, 2019 23:11:29 GMT
Is it safe to say her career is ruined too?
Not necessarily. I think that partly depends on what she learns from this experience. She is formidably talented, and she's clearly been brought up surrounded by some pretty toxic beliefs and attitudes, and she hasn't managed to transcend her upbringing. Her parents have done her considerable damage, but she's still quite young. There are ways forward for her from this - but not if she continues to alienate people. The way this controversy came about suggests rather strongly that she really hasn't endeared herself to some of the people she's worked with so far.
Agree with all of the above. This is such a sad case, and I was really hoping she'd retract her former statement, but given that she didn't, it really wouldn't have been right for her to continue in this role. She is "formidably talented" as sf says, and her Nettie was a real highlight of the Cadogan Hall sing-through, in which she was both effervescent and moving. Its horrible that people get indoctrinated into toxic and harmful beliefs, and such beliefs are incredibly hard to shift when they are rooted in religion. The best, perhaps the ONLY way, I have found to tackle these sorts of beliefs is to counter them from within the person's belief system, otherwise a true believer will simply reject everything you say. In this case, the response should probably be: (1) Did not Jesus say "Judge not lest ye be judged?" (2) If Leviticus says that homosexuality is an "abomination," does not also Deuteronomy say that rebellious children should be "stoned to death?" Why reject one toxic belief but retain the other? (3) Is it not the case that Luke describes Jesus as a human who "grew in wisdom and knowledge," and is it not the case that Jesus himself once refused to heal a non-Jew, but then relented in his belief, and healed the non-Jew? If Jesus changed his beliefs and teachings in the light of his compassion, why can't you? (4) Is it not the case that Jesus rewrote all those old rules about not eating pork and shellfish in his new covenant, in the Sermon on the mount, where he stated that henceforth the "only" laws are to love thy neighbour and thy God, and in light of that, the Leviticus prescriptions must also be rewritten in light of that compassionate new Covenant? (5) Remember rule number 1: "Judge not lest ye be judged." I usually find that the above observations undermine the basis of Christian biblical homophobia pretty effectively. If you're reading this, Ms Omooba, please take note, and best wishes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 1:15:09 GMT
Probably worth politely pointing out that rule number 1 could usefully be brought to the attention of audiences beyond Christian Fundamentalists. Twitter mobs, for example. I could be wrong, but I’m not sure the Good Lord provided a list of exceptions when he said sitting in judgement was A Bad Thing. ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 2:04:10 GMT
Another person's career has been severely derailed or possibly finished by a social media post, today the younger generation have to be so careful about what they say as things can come back and haunt them. Growing up in the 1970's and the 1980's even into the 1990's I said some things and had some views I'm not particularly proud of now but also things were said in jest and the heat of the moment to people I am still friends with to this day.
With everything being about inclusivity and understanding today, I've joked at work about when they are bigging up having a multi faith prayer room and LGB events wondering how they would reconcile if someone's faith didn't agree with someone else's lifestyle/sexuality.
With the girl being "removed" from the cast we don't know what other cast members/creatives might have said - they could have expressed that they didn't want to work with her. Interestingly her father is a Christian Pastor who was made an MBE this year, if he was preaching similar ideas to what she said then he'd have been unlikely to get this honour I'd have thought.
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Post by welsh_tenor on Mar 24, 2019 8:16:27 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 8:56:39 GMT
Thing is, if someone dug up something homophobic I'd said on the internet years ago, I would be absolutely mortified and positively frantic to make amends. I wouldn't dig my heels in and say something like "I said it, and I meant it, and if you want me gone you'll have to fire me, but then I'll sue your asses for religious discrimination" (or whatever's gone down in Leicester this week, I'm just guessing). Careers can be damaged by a post on social media, but no one forced her to post it, she hasn't said she no longer holds these beliefs so we can safely assume she still does, and she hasn't even thrown out a weak "I'm sorry if people were hurt" nonpology. If her career ends, it's ultimately because of her own choices. Social media might have helped, but the ultimate blame lies with her and no one else.
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573 posts
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Post by Dave25 on Mar 24, 2019 10:44:35 GMT
Thing is, if someone dug up something homophobic I'd said on the internet years ago, I would be absolutely mortified and positively frantic to make amends. I wouldn't dig my heels in and say something like "I said it, and I meant it, and if you want me gone you'll have to fire me, but then I'll sue your asses for religious discrimination" (or whatever's gone down in Leicester this week, I'm just guessing). Careers can be damaged by a post on social media, but no one forced her to post it, she hasn't said she no longer holds these beliefs so we can safely assume she still does, and she hasn't even thrown out a weak "I'm sorry if people were hurt" nonpology. If her career ends, it's ultimately because of her own choices. Social media might have helped, but the ultimate blame lies with her and no one else. I completely agree. The thing is, she seems to be too indoctrinated to understand this. She probably has no idea who she is besides religion. Making amends now might feel like turning away from any hold/grip on life she thought she had. That is the problem with religion, being introduced to real life often means separation from religion per definition. That is why state and church should always be separated and things like homosexuality always deserve more protection than the freedom to discriminate out of religion. And it's not about discrimination or crimes only. Also good things seem to be treated that way. When she got the role, she posted on twitter "Look what god has done". Of course now we could all say: "Look what god has done now". But I really hope for her that she will ever understand that she is the only one to blame and learns to take responsibility in life for the good as well as the bad things.
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297 posts
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Post by bengal73 on Mar 24, 2019 11:48:03 GMT
Not necessarily. I think that partly depends on what she learns from this experience. She is formidably talented, and she's clearly been brought up surrounded by some pretty toxic beliefs and attitudes, and she hasn't managed to transcend her upbringing. Her parents have done her considerable damage, but she's still quite young. There are ways forward for her from this - but not if she continues to alienate people. The way this controversy came about suggests rather strongly that she really hasn't endeared herself to some of the people she's worked with so far.
Agree with all of the above. This is such a sad case, and I was really hoping she'd retract her former statement, but given that she didn't, it really wouldn't have been right for her to continue in this role. She is "formidably talented" as sf says, and her Nettie was a real highlight of the Cadogan Hall sing-through, in which she was both effervescent and moving. Its horrible that people get indoctrinated into toxic and harmful beliefs, and such beliefs are incredibly hard to shift when they are rooted in religion. The best, perhaps the ONLY way, I have found to tackle these sorts of beliefs is to counter them from within the person's belief system, otherwise a true believer will simply reject everything you say. In this case, the response should probably be: (1) Did not Jesus say "Judge not lest ye be judged?" (2) If Leviticus says that homosexuality is an "abomination," does not also Deuteronomy say that rebellious children should be "stoned to death?" Why reject one toxic belief but retain the other? (3) Is it not the case that Luke describes Jesus as a human who "grew in wisdom and knowledge," and is it not the case that Jesus himself once refused to heal a non-Jew, but then relented in his belief, and healed the non-Jew? If Jesus changed his beliefs and teachings in the light of his compassion, why can't you? (4) Is it not the case that Jesus rewrote all those old rules about not eating pork and shellfish in his new covenant, in the Sermon on the mount, where he stated that henceforth the "only" laws are to love thy neighbour and thy God, and in light of that, the Leviticus prescriptions must also be rewritten in light of that compassionate new Covenant? (5) Remember rule number 1: "Judge not lest ye be judged." I usually find that the above observations undermine the basis of Christian biblical homophobia pretty effectively. If you're reading this, Ms Omooba, please take note, and best wishes. Rule number 2. Rebellious children should be stoned to death. Numerous trips on buses at school kicking out time tell me I could fully get on board with this
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Post by Boob on Mar 24, 2019 11:55:56 GMT
I agree, the most important thing is the made the right decision. I think we can be fairly confident that many of the stage were as rabid and raging as us, but they have to put on a professional front. And that means not shouting 'down with Christian fundamentalists' lest it offends the perfectly nice Christians who don't understand from a tweet that it's not about them. I also think, they're a theatre (s) speaking on behalf of an organisation, of course it's going to be measured and reserved. However they took action, I think the best thing to do is to follow suit, support an LGBTQ play by companies who showed they respect and support the community. Day out in Brum anyone?I'll get my jabs! Brumophobic!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 15:01:34 GMT
I actually did a bit of delving into her father's award this morning and was surprised to find it had been awarded given his views. Though that rather unpleasant Tory MP Christopher Chope got a knighthood in recent times. There had been some bubbling under about her views when she was doing Little Shop of Horrors but it has come to a head when she was cast in this role. Would any gay casting director, director or producer consider her for any role now I wonder and even straight ones who may be very pro LGBT.
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1,936 posts
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Post by wickedgrin on Mar 24, 2019 16:09:22 GMT
I'm intrigued as to who the new Celie will be. From Seyi being cast originally they went quite young with her so it will be interesting to see if that was a specific choice or they just liked Seyi and age didn't matter. I wonder if they could even bump someone up from the existing cast? Presumably they had someone in mind in the company to understudy the lead role. Perhaps they may give it her? Although there is still time to re-cast I would have thought. I sincerely hope the replacement is absolutely terrific, gets a big break in this role and has a spectacular career.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 25, 2019 8:16:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 8:25:24 GMT
Ugh. She doesn't deserve to work in the industry again. Ever.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 8:28:36 GMT
I really can't see ANYone being in a hurry to cast her in anything again, this is a helluva choice.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Mar 25, 2019 8:29:02 GMT
Actually I have plenty of words
1 - She chose to be a homophobe 2 - She chose to spread hate 3 - She continues to spread hate 4 - She has not demonstrated even the slightest bit of contrition 5 - She has not demonstrated even a willingness to change 6 - She is a bigot - plain and simple
By doubling down on her position of hate, she has forfeited the right to a second chance. This could have been a chance for a moment of reflection and realisation that hatred of this sort is not acceptable. But she has made an active choice to continue down her chosen path.
She is the aberration. Not me - nor any other member of the LGBT+ communities.
I get that she was born into a family that preaches hate - but she could have made a move away from that. She has not. She has no excuses for her attitudes - she chose them and now has to live with the consequences.
I sincerely hope we never hear from her again. Ever.
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1,819 posts
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Post by stevej678 on Mar 25, 2019 8:37:28 GMT
Incredible double standards. People are not born gay but she is born homophobic?!
Just not quite homophobic enough to turn down this role, obviously.
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Post by MrsCondomine on Mar 25, 2019 8:39:55 GMT
"homosexuality [is] an aberration"
So's your face sweetie BYE.
Have fun in obscurity.
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1,478 posts
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Post by Steve on Mar 25, 2019 8:44:11 GMT
God created her out of one of Ann Widdecombe's ribs.
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2,480 posts
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Post by zahidf on Mar 25, 2019 8:56:34 GMT
Well that's one way to completely kill your career...
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3,325 posts
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Post by Dr Tom on Mar 25, 2019 8:59:17 GMT
I really don't understand how you can go through musical theatre training, where you're surrounded by people of all types, including many gay people. Then, you end up still with those views, still wanting to be in the industry and with other people still wanting to work with you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 8:59:46 GMT
Well that's one way to completely kill your career... Holy F.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 9:01:26 GMT
"homosexuality [is] an aberration" So's your face sweetie BYE. Have fun in obscurity. No. We don’t need remarks like this. It does nothing constructive.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 9:08:58 GMT
It looks awfully like Omooba and her agents have quietly parted ways, presumably over this but they're not saying anything themselves, she's just no longer anywhere to be found on their website. Could this point to a decision that this is no longer the industry for her, if her beliefs are so strongly held and so inflexible?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2019 10:01:15 GMT
As Rodgers and Hammerstein said:
You've got to be taught to hate and fear You've got to be taught from year to year It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear You've got to be carefully taught
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4,153 posts
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Post by kathryn on Mar 25, 2019 10:07:51 GMT
Wow. ‘Doing a Seyi’ has got to be the new proverbial for completely destroying your own career because you just can’t keep your mouth shut.
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