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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 17:36:42 GMT
I'll throw a few out there... I really enjoyed Viva Forever! Also, Women On the Verge and Made in Dagenham deserved more than it got. Yasssssssss!!! Saw it twice, I loved it! The British accent was too strong tho, Ricardo Afonso was the only one making an effort to sound like a Spaniard speaking English. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 17:41:04 GMT
The Girls was the best musical I saw that year. Glad it has this new life on tour but not convinced by the redesign. I didn’t know there was a redesign 😬 |
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Post by Jon on Aug 10, 2018 17:43:32 GMT
I think anything written by Mike Read like Oscar and Cliff the Musical deserves a mention.
The Garrick has plenty of musical flops like Bad Girls and Zorro. Considering it managed to kill off Chicago first time around, you'd think producers would avoid it as a home for a musical
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 17:46:07 GMT
I think anything written by Mike Read like Oscar and Cliff the Musical deserves a mention. The Garrick has plenty of musical flops like Bad Girls and Zorro. Considering it managed to kill off Chicago first time around, you'd think producers would avoid it as a home for a musical Why is the Garrick such a poor venue for musicals? I’m not overly familiar with the Garrick, only been there once so I am curious. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 10, 2018 17:46:34 GMT
Here's a quick rundown, using similar criteria to the classic book 'Not Since Carrie' on Broadway flops. Under 250 performances, not a limited run, not been on Broadway, not a revue or compilation show, not a revival. As with that book there are probably a few missed and I've added a few that would have fallen outside that limitation. Some may have been time limited runs but would surely have extended or transferred if successful. I chose Bernadette as the starting point because that really has to be the nadir of West End musicals in living memory. I can add a list of ones from before if needed! Over sixty shows and I managed to see over three quarters of them..... 1990 Bernadette Heaven’s Up King Someone Like You 1991 Children of Eden Hunting of the Snark Matador 1992 From a Jack to a King Moby Dick Radio Times Valentine’s Day Which Witch 1993 Leonardo: Portrait of Love Lust c.1461 Robin, Prince of Sherwood 1994 Out of the Blue 1995 Prisoner Cell Block H 1996 Voyeurz 1997 Always Fields of Ambrosia Stepping Out Maddie 1998 Saucy Jack & the Space Vixens 1999 A Saint She Ain’t Boyband Casper – the Musical Tess of the D’Urbevilles 2000 La Cava Lautrec Hard Times Napoleon 2001 Closer to Heaven (off West End) Peggy Sue Got Married 2002 None 2003 Money to Burn (off West End) 2004 The Beautiful & the Damned The Big Life Murderous Instincts Oscar Wilde (off West End) 2005 Acorn Antiques The Far Pavilions The Man in the Iron Mask 2006 Daddy Cool 2007 Bad Girls – the Musical Desperately Seeking Susan 2008 Gone With the Wind The Harder They Come Imagine This Marguerite Never Forget 2009 Too Close to the Sun 2010 All the Fun of the Fair Flashdance Love Story 2011 Backbeat Betty Blue Eyes Lend me a Tenor Umbrellas of Cherbourg 2012 Loserville 2013 From Here to Eternity Stephen Ward Viva Forever 2014 I Can’t Sing Made in Dagenham 2015 None 2016 The Go Between Mrs Henderson Presents 2017 The Girls The Wind in the Willows I actually thought that Love Story was excellent.
No one has mentioned Wonder.land yet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 17:48:37 GMT
Oh loved Mrs Henderson Presents! I mean, Emma and Tracie, that is WINNING in my eye!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 18:09:17 GMT
I thought wind in the willows was a limited run?
I loved Zorro, and it actually broke a record for the garrick box office at the time. it started strong but dwindled quickly.
Love Story was brilliant too
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 18:28:52 GMT
I thought wind in the willows was a limited run? I loved Zorro, and it actually broke a record for the garrick box office at the time. it started strong but dwindled quickly. Love Story was brilliant too Willows was a limited Summer run, but it closed a week or two early due to poor ticket sales. |
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Post by graham on Aug 10, 2018 18:29:01 GMT
Nothing still quite matches the experience of "Bernadette - The People's Musical" for me, with "Which Witch" a very close second. Beginning to think the monkey may have been stalking me (inadvertently!) or vice versa! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 18:50:46 GMT
Oh if I can take a moment to mention a flop play, just because it was just bizzare and hilarious... did anyone see Fatal Attraction?! Me and @ryan still laugh about it now! That ending! 😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 19:01:31 GMT
Wonder.land was a limited run that completed its engagement and toured. Places like the NT, Old.Vic and such don’t have open runs so they’re of a different type. Groundhog Day is the same, although it would be seen as a flop on Broadway. A critical failure would be a good description of Wonder.land, I think. Wind in the Willows didn’t reach the end of its limited run, which is very flop-like. Zorro ran about 275 performances but has been successfully produced in the Netherlands, France, Russia etc. Not an exact science, of course, but using Mandelbaum’s parameters from Not Since Carrie is a decent guide.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 19:09:53 GMT
I've only seen two of the long list posted earlier in the thread: Lend Me a Tenor I loved; Made in Dagenham I hated.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 21:29:03 GMT
Oh if I can take a moment to mention a flop play, just because it was just bizzare and hilarious... did anyone see Fatal Attraction?! Me and @ryan still laugh about it now! That ending! 😂😂 Oh my goodness YES! That was one of my absolute favourites! It was quite simply one of the worst things I've ever seen but also one of the most ridiculously enjoyable things around. I just LOVED it from start to finish. So many things about make me giggle even after all these years. THAT is what London's glitzy West End is all about. |
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Post by crabtree on Aug 10, 2018 22:04:21 GMT
Has anyone mentioned Time or Bernadette or Mutiny......the shape nearly saved Mutiny, but the lyrics and songs were appalling, and when the ship finally reached wherever it was going, all that was left of the budget was a terrible cloth. Ghastly but a good ship. Ah yes, and brian blessed in Metropolis.....monumental in so many ways.
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Post by Boob on Aug 10, 2018 22:18:25 GMT
Let's not forget Romeo & Juliet the Musical at the Piccadilly! It started with the lyrics (courtesy of the immortal bard of Hackney South, Donald Blackstone) "If you think you've seen it all/Then you had better think again." Quite. By the finale, when the cast sang "Men, men are fools/They're like stubborn mules", my jaw was so low on the floor I was practically on the Bakerloo Line.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 22:32:28 GMT
Time actually ran for a couple of years and Mutiny for over a year. Strange times the eighties, that shows like this got decent runs. Romeo and Juliet was actually a massive hit in Paris and they made changes which made it a whole lot worse. Songs which really land powerfully in the French spectacle sounded weedy and god knows what what Jane MacDonald was doing there. Almost as out of place as Sheila Ferguson popping in to sing a completely irrelevant song in Always about love’s carousel!
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 10, 2018 22:33:22 GMT
Wonder.land was a limited run that completed its engagement and toured. Places like the NT, Old.Vic and such don’t have open runs so they’re of a different type. Groundhog Day is the same, although it would be seen as a flop on Broadway. A critical failure would be a good description of Wonder.land, I think. Wind in the Willows didn’t reach the end of its limited run, which is very flop-like. Zorro ran about 275 performances but has been successfully produced in the Netherlands, France, Russia etc. Not an exact science, of course, but using Mandelbaum’s parameters from Not Since Carrie is a decent guide. Sorry forgot to put on my last post that your list is great. I mentioned Wonder.land because it got stinking reviews and played to a empty Olivier where a lot of people chopped their ticket in. I know the run is limited, but if a show does well they either add more booking dates or transfer it into the West End. The tour If I remember was part of the Manchester international Festival, where it played the Palace before the National. Same could be said about The Light Princess which never met expectations. Groundhog Day is an intriguing one, where it got excellent reviews, including the New York Times, which made the producers rush it to Broadway, in a season choc-a-bloc with new musicals, including Hamilton, the rest is sadly history, if the producers transferred it to the West End, it would have had a very good run and chances are it would still be open now., build a good word of mouth and if opened on Broadway last season it may of run a lot longer. But saying all that hindsight is a beautiful thing. Bright Star is another musical that opens that season and closed prematurely, that show was beautiful. The Witches of Eastwick could sit on this list. |
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Post by sf on Aug 10, 2018 22:43:29 GMT
Has anyone mentioned Time or Bernadette or Mutiny......the shape nearly saved Mutiny, but the lyrics and songs were appalling, and when the ship finally reached wherever it was going, all that was left of the budget was a terrible cloth. Ghastly but a good ship. Ah yes, and brian blessed in Metropolis.....monumental in so many ways.
I saw Time and Metropolis, but with extensive therapy I was eventually able to make a full recovery.
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Post by sf on Aug 10, 2018 22:48:45 GMT
1990 Bernadette Heaven’s Up King Someone Like You 1991 Children of Eden Hunting of the Snark Matador 1992 From a Jack to a King Moby Dick Radio Times Valentine’s Day Which Witch 1993 Leonardo: Portrait of Love Lust c.1461 Robin, Prince of Sherwood 1994 Out of the Blue 1995 Prisoner Cell Block H 1996 Voyeurz 1997 Always Fields of Ambrosia Stepping Out Maddie 1998 Saucy Jack & the Space Vixens God help me, I saw 18 of these. My post-98 scorecard is less impressive (I haven't lived in London since then). I'm not sure whether that's a good or a bad thing. |
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Post by sf on Aug 10, 2018 22:59:15 GMT
I mentioned Wonder.land because it got stinking reviews and played to a empty Olivier where a lot of people chopped their ticket in. I know the run is limited, but if a show does well they either add more booking dates or transfer it into the West End. The tour If I remember was part of the Manchester international Festival, where it played the Palace before the National. My favourite memory of wonder.land at the Palace is of the woman sitting next to me turning to me after the curtain call as we were getting ready to file out of the theatre and telling me, "my brother saw this last night and he told me it was one of the best things he'd ever seen." (long pause) "He needs to get out more." |
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Post by drowseychap on Aug 11, 2018 0:34:25 GMT
Some of the so called flops I really enjoyed and the odd one went on to have a very successful tour ie the goodbye girl ? With Gary Wilmot and on the tour Marti Webb
I also must say enjoyed hard times Brian blessed Anne Emery and Roy hudd were fantastic and made the best of it ... enjoyable show .. love the ep some good songs on it
The drowsy chaperone of course .... loved this show and always felt it would tour well it really should have done better
Hated lord of the rings .... boring ...
Did enjoy lend me a tenor and really thought it deserved a longer run
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 1:01:58 GMT
To clarify a few things - these are musicals with limited runs in major theatres (including the NT, Stratford East, Menier, Lyric Hammersmith among some others). Some of them quite well remembered, some barely noticed even when they were on.
LIMITED RUNS
1990
Just So
Glory
1991
Days of Hope
Good Golly Miss Molly
1993
Moll Flanders
The Iron Man
Night After Night
1994
Peter Pan – the British Musical
Curse of the Werewolf
1995
Zorro the Musical (Not the later show)
1996
Summer Holiday
The Fix
Enter the Guardsman
Disgracefully Yours
Scrooge the Musical
1997
Heathcliff
1998
Honk
2000
The Villain’s Opera
2002
Peter Pan – a Musical Adventure
2003
Da Boyz
Over My Shoulder
2004
Brighton Rock
Follow My Leader
2005
High Heel Parrotfish
2006
The Wolves in the Wall
Blonde Bombshells of 1943
2007
Take Flight
2008
Come Dancing
2009
Been So Long
Wuthering Heights
2010
Paradise Found
Britain’s Got Bhangra
Wolfboy
The Three Musketeers
2011
London Road
Shoes – the Musical
Takeaway
Betwixt
Swallows and Amazons
2012
The Wah Wah Girls
2013
American Psycho
The Light Princess
Glasgow Girls
2014
The Infidel – the Musical
2015
Wonder.land
2016
Lazarus
Groundhog Day
A Pacifist’s Guide to the War on Cancer
2017
The Girl From the North Country (if you add up the Old Vic run with the West End run it only reached about 200 performances but they were both limited runs)
The Grinning Man
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 1:04:46 GMT
A few that I'd missed plus those that, on further investigation put existing songs into a new story (not just biomusicals or revues). A couple of Eurovision based shows too plus the French Romeo & Juliet which, on reflection, was very different to the original (blame Din Black, I think).
1990
Eurovision
1991
Ken Hill’s Phantom of the Opera
1992
The Cotton Club
1993
Hot Stuff
1994
Hot Shoe Shuffle
1995
The Hot Mikado
1998
Boogie Nights
1999
Oh, What a Night
2002
Romeo & Juliet - the Musical
2008
Eurobeat (Almost Eurovision)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 2:02:06 GMT
For comparison these are shows of that twenty eight year period (including types excluded from the flops list) that ran for longer than those in the main flop list.
We Will Rock You 4659
Billy Elliot 4566
Dirty Dancing 2055
Five Guys Named Moe 2054 (Revue)
Sunset Boulevard 1529
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory c. 1500
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang 1415
Mary Poppins 1283
Dreamboats & Petticoats c. 1230
Priscilla, Queen of the Desert 1152
Whistle Down the Wind 1044
Sunny Afternoon c. 860 (Biomusical)
Bombay Dreams 829
The Bodyguard c.760
Saturday Night Fever 758
Martin Guerre 675
Love Never Dies c.630
Top Hat c. 630
Only the Lonely 611 (Biomusical)
Jerry Springer – the Opera 609
The Woman in White c. 600
Sister Act 591
Jolson 580 (Biomusical)
Copacabana 525
Taboo c. 525 (Biomusical)
The Witches of Eastwick 506
Ghost – the Musical c. 500
Lord of the Rings 454
Jailhouse Rock 420
The Beautiful Game 391
Tonight’s the Night 387
Dr Dolittle 375
A Tribute to the Blues Brothers 360 (Revue)
Bend it Like Beckham c.350
Spend, Spend, Spend 342
Our House 331
Good Rockin Tonite 327 (Biomusical)
Zorro 279
By Jeeves 268
Still Running – rough figures as of now
Mamma Mia c. 7890
Thriller – Live c. 4000 (Revue)
Matilda c.2750
School of Rock c. 725
Everybody’s Talking About Jamie c. 320
On my last post, Din Black ahould have read Don Black, it wasn’t an unsubtle comment about the lack of musicality in his lyrics.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 4:09:32 GMT
Let's not forget Romeo & Juliet the Musical at the Piccadilly! The London and Antwerp productions of that show were launched at about the same time, and the cast of the latter weren't happy that their production was being neglected by a creative team who seemed to think that London deserved almost all their time. The Antwerp production was an incredible success and ended up extending (IIRC) four times. The cast in Antwerp were not exactly saddened to find out that the oh-so-special London production had flopped and already closed while they were still selling out on their extended run. |
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