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Post by bordeaux on Jun 27, 2018 6:59:47 GMT
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 27, 2018 7:53:40 GMT
As the list features 1man 2guvnors I refuse to accept its existence
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Post by dani on Jun 27, 2018 8:17:43 GMT
I'd have included Posh, Constellations, Cock, Tribes, Iphigenia in Splott and The Effect.
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Post by Steve on Jun 27, 2018 8:18:52 GMT
As the list features 1man 2guvnors I refuse to accept its existence Lol I find that very funny, though I do disagree.
Billington has a propensity to seriousness, so I'm glad to see he included a very funny comedy.
I would have included "The Play That Goes Wrong," as Mischief Theatre really gave the British comedic landscape a lift.
And I'm very happy to see "Nine Night" there, which is not a comedy, but which has in it a comic gem of a character, Cecilia Noble's Aunt Maggie!  |
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Post by Rory on Jun 27, 2018 8:20:20 GMT
Great to see Jerusalem at the Watermill getting raves (no pun intended). 5 * from the two Dominics. Kudos to Jasper Britton for tackling the role in the shadow of Rylance and seemingky pulling it off spectacularly well.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 8:47:14 GMT
All subjective but I'd add and take out the following - most of them being more radical with form than Billington generally responds to plus a couple of plays with songs. To accommodate them some of Billington's writers trading on past glories would go (Brenton, Hare, Edgar), some more that his focus on politics and political history promotes more highly than I would.
I'd Add -
Adler & Gibb – Tim Crouch
Anatomy of a Suicide – Alice Birch
Carmen Disruption – Simon Stephens
Nell Gwyn – Jessica Swale
Our Ladies of Perpetual Succour – Lee Hall
Pomona – Alistair Mcdowell
The Strange Undoing of Prudencia Hart – David Greig
The Writer – Ella Hickson
I'd Take Out -
Anne Boleyn - Howard Brenton
Written on the Heart - David Edgar
Handbagged - Moira Buffini
James Plays - Rona Munro
The Moderate Soprano - David Hare
Oil - Ella Hickson
Consent - Nina Raine
Oppenheimer - Tom Morton-Smith
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 8:48:09 GMT
That the Moderate Soprano is on this list...I have no words.
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Post by crowblack on Jun 27, 2018 9:11:42 GMT
No major omissions occur to me Katherine Soper's Wish List, which Billington didn't see (I think the first thing he saw Erin Doherty in was The Divide, and in his round up of last year he named her as the outstanding emerging talent). Wonderful play, fantastic production - won a shedload of awards, there are two revivals of it this month, and Russell T Davies (sitting behind me in Manchester, yay!) said the Meatloaf scene was the best thing he'd ever seen on stage. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 9:44:46 GMT
There are some plays that absolutely don't belong on here. Also I'm fed up of these lists revolving so closely around the original productions of plays. Come back when it's been revived, tell me if you *still* think it's a great play when the original West End star has moved on and a fresh-faced graduate of the School of Hollyoaks is touring it round the provinces. *That's* going to be what sets apart a great production for now from a truly great play for all time, whether it has an independent future life.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 10:01:59 GMT
To be fair, plays since 2009 haven't had much chance for a revival yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 10:02:01 GMT
I wish Billington would stop making lists like this. I can’t see what purpose it serves. Is it a particularly male trait to rank things like this?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 10:21:21 GMT
To be fair, plays since 2009 haven't had much chance for a revival yet. An extremely true point, which ties into another opinion of mine that we don't know which are the best films of the twenty-first century so far because we haven't had enough time to see if they hold up or if they were just the right film at the right time and will fade into obscurity along with the mediocre and the dross.  Nevertheless, you can generally read a script and tell if it's strong enough to probably be revived one day, or if it's actually a weak piece of writing held up by one extremely strong performer that the director was lucky to get. |
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Post by crowblack on Jun 27, 2018 10:26:00 GMT
plays since 2009 haven't had much chance for a revival yet. Wish List has two this month! It's not on Billington's list, but it was in a studio space and as far as I can tell he didn't see it. I think Gundog (also RC studio) was very good too, another emerging writer who looks interesting. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 11:37:18 GMT
To be fair, plays since 2009 haven't had much chance for a revival yet. An extremely true point, which ties into another opinion of mine that we don't know which are the best films of the twenty-first century so far because we haven't had enough time to see if they hold up or if they were just the right film at the right time and will fade into obscurity along with the mediocre and the dross. Nevertheless, you can generally read a script and tell if it's strong enough to probably be revived one day, or if it's actually a weak piece of writing held up by one extremely strong performer that the director was lucky to get. All true, although my opinion is that each time has its own list and they will be all appropriate for the era that they are made in. If a play is well thought of in one generation but not the next then that doesn't stop it being important for that time. In a way it's a good measure of the tastes of a particular era and how they might (or might not have) changed. Beaumont and Fletcher were considered Shakespeare's superior in the restoration period, for example. From more recently, I hope to see a re-evaluation of Poliakoff's plays, as I feel they are unjustly neglected in favour of Hare/Brenton/Edgar etc. |
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Post by lichtie on Jun 27, 2018 12:06:23 GMT
There are some plays that absolutely don't belong on here. Also I'm fed up of these lists revolving so closely around the original productions of plays. Come back when it's been revived, tell me if you *still* think it's a great play when the original West End star has moved on and a fresh-faced graduate of the School of Hollyoaks is touring it round the provinces. *That's* going to be what sets apart a great production for now from a truly great play for all time, whether it has an independent future life. Well This House is now on its provincial tour, and still seems fine to me. However, it's so time specific to a typical audience age that I can imagine no one will be interested in revisiting 25 years from now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 12:07:35 GMT
There are some plays that absolutely don't belong on here. Also I'm fed up of these lists revolving so closely around the original productions of plays. Come back when it's been revived, tell me if you *still* think it's a great play when the original West End star has moved on and a fresh-faced graduate of the School of Hollyoaks is touring it round the provinces. *That's* going to be what sets apart a great production for now from a truly great play for all time, whether it has an independent future life. i have to say @baemax, I love your contributions to the board. |
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Post by crowblack on Jun 27, 2018 12:09:09 GMT
Two generations of us went - it's my Mum's era and she thought it was entertaining but nothing amazing, and I'd already forgotten I'd seen it! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 12:20:01 GMT
plays since 2009 haven't had much chance for a revival yet. Wish List has two this month! It's not on Billington's list, but it was in a studio space and as far as I can tell he didn't see it. I think Gundog (also RC studio) was very good too, another emerging writer who looks interesting. Wish List was one of my favourites last year - I pride myself as being able to sniff out good writing despite directorial and production flourishes. I think this writer is a real find. Same with Gundog which, although it sent me to sleep a few times, was an undeniably well written piece. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 12:28:17 GMT
I wish Billington would stop this machismoatic delusion that he is the authoratitive word on what constitutes “the best”.
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Post by lichtie on Jun 27, 2018 12:52:40 GMT
I wish Billington would stop this machismoatic delusion that he is the authoratitive word on what constitutes “the best”. It's not really him - the Guardian loves doing top X type lists for some reason. They wheel out pretty much all of their Culture section staff to have a go. Many of them are a clear waste of good electrons. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 13:24:15 GMT
If they had phrased it more as "Michael Billington chooses his favourites of the last few years" and less as "OUR CRITIC announces THE BEST plays since THE LAST DEFINITIVELY GREAT ONE" I'd be far more forgiving. I know I should be reading an implicit "in my opinion" in every single article or post I read ever, but I still wish people would acknowledge the impossibility of a definitive "best" list and instead encourage the legitimisation of "favourite" as a discussion topic.
Still, credit where it's due, we've got thirteen plays by men and twelve by women. I'm genuinely surprised and pleased to see such a decent gender balance (one that's even slightly in favour of the women, if you consider The James Plays as separates rather than a single over-long entity). And who knows, maybe when (say) Bristol Old Vic revives The Ferryman in eight or nine years, Billington's "THE BEST plays since THE LAST DEFINITIVELY GREAT ONE" list will have such a decent showing of non-white playwrights. Fingers crossed!
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Post by crowblack on Jun 27, 2018 14:11:44 GMT
top X type lists for some reason. Clickbait for advertising - and I always go for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 17:47:59 GMT
I fully expected not to have seen - even less recognised - anything on the list, as I don't see many new plays and am rarely in London, but actually I've seen 3 of those and liked them all. (This House, The James Plays and the tv version of King Charles III, if you want to know.)
I need to make more of an effort to see new plays. It's hard though, when a London trip needs planning months ahead.
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Post by lynette on Jun 27, 2018 17:56:34 GMT
I’ve seen 11 of these. Agree Soprano not good enough for the list. One man two guvs is basically a Roman farce so not sure it counts. They love these lists don’t they as if they achieve anything. You can’t go and see 'em again V easily. ( is Soprano there because it is on now and a good PR has got it mentioned?)
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Post by joem on Jun 27, 2018 19:27:46 GMT
I've seen 10 of them (counting the James Plays as one of course). Not sure why people get so excited about this - Billington is a critic and he has his opinions, a critic is not just someone who lists what happened and who happened it, he is supposed to have an opinion. I agree with some, wouldn't put some of them on my list. But he's entitled to list whatever he wants and the point (as with all these lists) is that it gets people talking.
"The Moderate Soprano" was a trifle dull and inconsequential and "Oil" was effort over achievement. I thought Charles III was overhyped. "Chimerica" is a good shout, very funny play, agree with "Anne Boleyn" but I would include "Nell Gwyn" and "Boudica" and "The Red Lion". Glad to see James Graham making the cut.
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