1,098 posts
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Post by theatrefan62 on Dec 27, 2023 11:51:57 GMT
Six unscheduled absences across her contact. We just don't have people with this work ethic anymore (mores the pity) This is so true, and is also something Michael Ball has spoken about before.
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480 posts
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Post by deej4life on Dec 27, 2023 21:09:13 GMT
Kate Leiper is on as Elphaba for both shows today (27th December, 2023).
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Post by lookitsglinda on Dec 28, 2023 0:00:13 GMT
Kate Leiper is on as Elphaba for both shows today (27th December, 2023). Christine Tucker was also on for Glinda for both shows!
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Post by jay987 on Dec 28, 2023 3:28:13 GMT
It really makes one wonder about the conditions and allowances in Amy Webb and Lisa-Anne Wood’s contracts. Why have standbys at all if the first covers just have to go on all the time?
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Post by lookitsglinda on Dec 28, 2023 11:47:36 GMT
Kate Leiper is on as Elphaba and Christine Tucker as Glinda for both shows today
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Post by wickedestwitch on Dec 28, 2023 11:56:19 GMT
It really makes one wonder about the conditions and allowances in Amy Webb and Lisa-Anne Wood’s contracts. Why have standbys at all if the first covers just have to go on all the time? I was also wondering about this. Given that both girls have previously shown their consistency, I think it’s a matter of they want the show in best shape and if they feel tired they’d rather their cover go on. Amy Webb was very consistent beginning of last cast and the cast before where she would be on consistently should Lucie/laura pick call out prior to injury and sickness later in the year and Lisa even in this cast has shown her consistency at doing full weeks only a few months back. I don’t imagine work ethic has suddenly changed for either girls and I can’t imagine it’s easy being a standby who spends most of their time in a dressing room so they’re not used to doing back to back shows all the time. They’ve probably lost some stamina because of it. It’s a real shame because I’ve seen both Amy and Lisa and in the few times I have seen them, I’m always impressed with their performances. Maybe they don’t want to give what they would consider ‘not a good show’ especially because of the prices nowadays at wicked. I know I’d rather go to see someone who isn’t tired and can give their 100% that day.
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850 posts
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Post by BVM on Dec 28, 2023 12:25:56 GMT
None of us know the reasons actors do or don't go on and it's very much a matter between them and their employers. There may or may not be an array of reasons including physical and mental health that affects who goes on when that are none of our business. Their employers may be supportive of this and keep them on intentionally despite unpredictability. It's hardly "Glenn in Sunset" levels of problematic as to who goes on.
Producers job is to get the show on which they are doing.
Wicked is like Phantom and Les Mis and is overwhelmingly majority tourists. They literally could not care less who they are watching and very few would be able to tell you their names on the way out. Plus a lot of the fan community love the revolving door of witches and it gets them talking and buying last minute tickets.
I really don't see a problem here. And for a show 18 odd years in, it all looked pretty tight last time I went.
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Post by wickedestwitch on Dec 28, 2023 12:42:03 GMT
None of us know the reasons actors do or don't go on and it's very much a matter between them and their employers. There may or may not be an array of reasons including physical and mental health that affects who goes on when that are none of our business. Their employers may be supportive of this and keep them on intentionally despite unpredictability. It's hardly "Glenn in Sunset" levels of problematic as to who goes on. Producers job is to get the show on which they are doing. Wicked is like Phantom and Les Mis and is overwhelmingly majority tourists. They literally could not care less who they are watching and very few would be able to tell you their names on the way out. Plus a lot of the fan community love the revolving door of witches and it gets them talking and buying last minute tickets. I really don't see a problem here. And for a show 18 odd years in, it all looked pretty tight last time I went. That was very well put! The show always seems in good shape when I visit so I applaud them for that!
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Post by toomasj on Dec 28, 2023 12:48:22 GMT
Perhaps that is the case for you, but a great number of people in recent pages - in fact going back years now in the thread - have noticed a decline in quality in the West End production. It was in very poor shape when I last went and others have shared similar sentiments with the same complaints cropping up. Namely underwhelming casting, poor sound, a lack of comedy beats being hit and so forth.
That isn’t to say there’s a right and wrong in this, just different viewpoints and tastes.
I agree though, shows like Phantom, Les Mis and Wicked rely heavily on brand familiarity and both the foreign and domestic tourism opportunities it provides.
Where I do disagree though is the perception that audiences are clueless about what they’re seeing. Sure, in the short term, they’ve paid their money and seen the show - and for most it’s an actress in green make up, or wearing a mask, singing great songs in a flashy musical.
However, there is a huge aspect which gets overlooked which is creeping fatigue of a show. Shows tire, people get comfortable (including resident creatives, dance captains, cast, crew - and yes, audiences).
Standards can slide imperceptibly over time, jokes stop landing but the direction is locked and rigid. What worked for one performer simply may not land when delivered identically by the next, for instance.
So in the short term, the name continues to sell. But these big brand shows, they rely on their ongoing popularity through repeat visits and positive word of mouth from friends and family.
A producer could put in a very poor cast in a top selling show, let’s say, Hamilton for example. Sales won’t be immediately affected, because of huge advance bookings and first time audiences keen to see the show. But if they see a show where standards have fallen and the show feels flat, they are less likely to rebook for their next visit or recommend to their friends or come back any time soon.
This exact thing happened at Les Mis, where the same house creatives had been in place at the then-Queen’s Theatre perhaps a touch too long. Casting became uninspired, with a lot of promoting of covers who perhaps weren’t quite up to carrying the longest running and most popular West End show in history. Ticket sales went from red-hot over a couple of years to in the absolute toilet, with the show very close to closure.
In 2005, Cameron Mackintosh personally stepped in after seeing his show in disarray and all but three of the cast were replaced in an effort to reinvigorate the show. The house creatives and MD were replaced and they went on an international casting tour for the first time in a while. They brought in the first ever black Javert, Cornell John, and cast quality throughout like John Owen-Jones, Hayden Tee, Barry James and Claire Moore.
Advance sales all through this period were still poor as a knock on from the show being run into the ground previously. Then the next year they picked right up again, because of rebooks and positive word of mouth from the previous year. Almost exactly the same thing happened at Phantom with Peter Jöback, where things were looking very dicey for a while.
At Wicked they’ve made a gesture of change, but it feels symbolic. Three POC in lead roles is good for marketing copy; but they’re made into automatons following the same rigid direction that’s been completely untouched since opening.
In an ideal world, COVID could’ve provided an opportunity to fix and clean up the show, and come back with a truly stellar cast. Fixed the sound issues, tightened the direction and cast the net wide for talent. They didn’t do this and, frankly, it’s needed it for a decade or more at this point.
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Post by lookitsglinda on Dec 28, 2023 12:55:47 GMT
There’s a difference between thinking the show has gone down in quality and being critical of cast members when they are unable to perform. Time and time again on this thread I see people picking on certain performers for being unable to perform and speculating why they are off when it’s literally none of our business. If you don’t think the show is as good as it used to be then that’s fine don’t go, but public speculation around a performer’s absence is unnecessary. It could be any combination of illness, injury or other personal reasons.
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850 posts
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Post by BVM on Dec 28, 2023 13:01:24 GMT
There’s a difference between thinking the show has gone down in quality and being critical of cast members when they are unable to perform. Time and time again on this thread I see people picking on certain performers for being unable to perform and speculating why they are off when it’s literally none of our business. If you don’t think the show is as good as it used to be then that’s fine don’t go, but public speculation around a performer’s absence is unnecessary. It could be any combination of illness, injury or other personal reasons. Fully agree - very much the point I was making!
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18,811 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 28, 2023 13:41:18 GMT
There’s a difference between thinking the show has gone down in quality and being critical of cast members when they are unable to perform. Time and time again on this thread I see people picking on certain performers for being unable to perform and speculating why they are off when it’s literally none of our business. If you don’t think the show is as good as it used to be then that’s fine don’t go, but public speculation around a performer’s absence is unnecessary. It could be any combination of illness, injury or other personal reasons. Discussion of a performers attendance is allowed. Speculation about matters of health or other personal details is not. This is made clear in our rules. If members see something they consider to be a rule break please report it rather than trying to police the thread. Thank you.
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Post by wickedestwitch on Dec 29, 2023 18:38:51 GMT
Amy Webb and Christine tucker are on again tonight
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Post by jacob on Dec 29, 2023 20:48:07 GMT
Regardless of “who’s on, who’s off”, I echo other comments when I say that I think the West End show is tired as well. It’s clearly the performances and some of the cast. Some ensemble members stick out like sore thumbs by doing “too much”, and Ryan was really not great when I went last time. @ Michael McCabe … give this show the shake up it deserves ! Revised orchestrations? A new sound design! Updated projections. INVOLVE the fan base more. Make Glinda more bubbly (yes, pun intended) as to contrast with Elphaba. Please give us a Fiyero who can dance and sing. When the actors onstage are having fun too, audiences can tell and it works… but everyone looked so dead behind the eyes last time I went. It’s unique creative choices that make a long running show engaging again, like on Broadway with fresh faces, new vocals and incredible orchestrations.
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Post by SuttonPeron on Dec 30, 2023 1:17:16 GMT
Agreed the show needs refreshing and much more enthusiasm from the ensemble, but please do NOT touch William David Brohn´s incredible orchestrations!
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480 posts
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Post by deej4life on Dec 30, 2023 3:49:03 GMT
The London production (and by extension the UK tour) really need to push the casts with better direction, particularly when it comes to the comedy. For lack of a better word, they need to "Americanise" the show a bit.
Glinda, particularly in Act 1, relies entirely on someone having good comedic timing to carry the performance. I know that English audiences tend to be a tad more "reserved" than their US counterparts, but Glinda really should be pushing in Act 1 to get the laughs out of every line. Unfortunately a lot of the UK Glindas over the years completely miss the mark, and it makes for painful viewing when key comedic scenes like Popular only gets mild responses from the audience.
This sentiment also extends to the ensemble, where comedic timing is just far superior on Broadway. I'm not entirely sure if these issues are due to not enough direction from management, or too much direction from management, but clearly the current approach is not working.
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Post by flyingsolo on Dec 30, 2023 5:35:34 GMT
Agreed. I mean just look at Louise Dearman. She was a posh Galinda the way Wicked UK likes it and yet she was incredibly funny, which is the whole point of Popular. I think they might wanna focus on the more natural approach to Galinda where the focus shifts more to her genuinely wanting to help Elphaba but that shifts away entirely from the main purpose of the song/scene in the show which is comedic relief.
Overall they have become way too strict on certain unnecessary beats and cues in the show like the broomography, the awkward timing of the pre-flight lines and the "IT'S MEEE".. They should just loosen up and allow actors to make choices again. It's so noticeable when actors are just walking towards their mark and waiting for their cue, they look bored and stiff.
Also for the love of Oz fix the loud/distorted audio issues because it really is doing a disservice to Alexia's amazing but nasal voice (plus why are scenes that actually need the volume up like the Monkey Reveal so quiet??). And hire better actors. Ross Harmon leaving but Ryan Reid staying???
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480 posts
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Post by deej4life on Dec 30, 2023 6:46:09 GMT
Overall they have become way too strict on certain unnecessary beats and cues in the show like the broomography, the awkward timing of the pre-flight lines and the "IT'S MEEE". I agree with this 100%. In particular it drives me mad in Defying Gravity when the Glinda will deliver only their scripted lines as the guards capture them, and they won't ad-lib some words to cover for the time it takes Elphaba to begin her pre-flight lines. Also, the flight choreography itself needs major loosening from the directors. When you look at the Elphabas in the US, they all have their own unique choreography with constant movement of the broom. Meanwhile in the UK it's the same stiff rehearsed movements that really detract from the excitement of the flying section.
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Post by Jane Parfitt on Dec 30, 2023 9:50:03 GMT
Dear God, no! A number of fan girls already have an obsessive interest and think they own the show, the front row and some of the cast..... INVOLVE the fan base more
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Post by sb on Dec 30, 2023 10:34:42 GMT
I’ve read that in the last week that the West End production has had a couple of ‘no-fly’ shows.
Fully appreciate that it can’t be helped, but it can’t be great for audiences to be missing out on one of the most prominent moments in the show.
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Post by richey on Dec 30, 2023 11:03:58 GMT
I’ve read that in the last week that the West End production has had a couple of ‘no-fly’ shows. Fully appreciate that it can’t be helped, but it can’t be great for audiences to be missing out on one of the most prominent moments in the show. I don't think that's particularly unusual, they've always happened. I heard it also happened on tour the other day too
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6,338 posts
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Post by danb on Dec 30, 2023 11:08:18 GMT
Dear God, no! A number of fan girls already have an obsessive interest and think they own the show and some of the cast..... INVOLVE the fan base more You sound nice…🙃
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4,451 posts
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Post by Being Alive on Dec 30, 2023 11:58:23 GMT
I agree on the not involving the fan base thing - there's ways of refreshing this show that have been listed above that don't turn it in to Heathers or Six....
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Post by wickedestwitch on Dec 30, 2023 12:38:17 GMT
I saw this morning that wicked were nearly close to celebrating their 12 millionth ozian which is pretty cool. In terms of the fan base, to some extent I agree that some of its more maybe loyal fans they could do a small gesture that wouldn’t impact the show. Something like just a letter from a cast member, signed photo etc. could suffice as a nice gesture. I think whatever show you go to you will get more die hard fans who love a show. Theatre is often such a good escape and if those young girls are having a lovely time, enjoying their favourite show and cast then amazing! We need people to keep supporting shows or I’m worried that more shows will soon see an early closure
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Post by toomasj on Dec 30, 2023 14:34:25 GMT
I saw this morning that wicked were nearly close to celebrating their 12 millionth ozian which is pretty cool. In terms of the fan base, to some extent I agree that some of its more maybe loyal fans they could do a small gesture that wouldn’t impact the show. Something like just a letter from a cast member, signed photo etc. could suffice as a nice gesture. I think whatever show you go to you will get more die hard fans who love a show. Theatre is often such a good escape and if those young girls are having a lovely time, enjoying their favourite show and cast then amazing! We need people to keep supporting shows or I’m worried that more shows will soon see an early closure Absolutely, and as a gateway show it is a good thing to get young people involved in theatre. I think that excitement in an audience is important, but there is a line and at Wicked in particular it was so regularly crossed that I would’ve been happy to never see another screaming fan girl in my life. They ruined a couple of performances for me with their antics. But I really don’t think we can blame unreceptive audiences for Wicked West End’s current problems. The producers have gotten really lazy and are just happy to sit and take the profits without any of the effort of keeping the show fresh. A poster above noted the rigidity that I commented on in my long post above. Walking to their spike, saying their line robotically, walking to the next mark etc. There is just no dynamism, excitement or originality in anything anyone does in the show in the last decade or so. It’s a “machine” of the worst kind at this stage. I wonder if the director has taken a rehearsal or given any notes since the 2010’s. I very much doubt it.
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4,451 posts
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Post by Being Alive on Dec 30, 2023 15:18:30 GMT
I vaguely remember reading Joe Mantello re rehearsed the Broadway and us tour companies, but we were very much left to 'get on with it'
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Post by toomasj on Dec 30, 2023 15:20:57 GMT
Sounds about right
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Post by flyingsolo on Dec 30, 2023 15:54:15 GMT
Overall they have become way too strict on certain unnecessary beats and cues in the show like the broomography, the awkward timing of the pre-flight lines and the "IT'S MEEE". I agree with this 100%. In particular it drives me mad in Defying Gravity when the Glinda will deliver only their scripted lines as the guards capture them, and they won't ad-lib some words to cover for the time it takes Elphaba to begin her pre-flight lines. Also, the flight choreography itself needs major loosening from the directors. When you look at the Elphabas in the US, they all have their own unique choreography with constant movement of the broom. Meanwhile in the UK it's the same stiff rehearsed movements that really detract from the excitement of the flying section. Definitely, everyone's so stiff and the show feels stale. This video surfaced yesterday of Defying Gravity on tour and even though Laura, the orchestra, the lighting and yes even the audio levels are great, the broomography just looks so boring and the gap between Glinda's screaming and Elphaba's preflight lines is just so awkward. The guards holding Glinda literally stand still and do nothing
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Post by flyingsolo on Dec 30, 2023 16:07:16 GMT
I vaguely remember reading Joe Mantello re rehearsed the Broadway and us tour companies, but we were very much left to 'get on with it' I believe Wicked UK and US are seperated and therefor Wicked US doesn't look after Wicked UK as they're supposed to look after themselves. Wicked UK sets up their own productions like the UK and International Tours and Wicked US sets up their own (Korea, Australia, Japan etc). You can mostly tell which production is set up by which team, US or UK, by looking at the sets, props and costumes as there are some big differences in design. The only productions where I have noticed both US and UK interfering was with the German and Dutch productions (which were both set up by the same production company and shared the same set) where the production itself was set up by Wicked US with the US design variant of the sets and props but they had the costumes and light cues from Wicked UK.
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18,811 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 30, 2023 16:26:08 GMT
You’d be hard pressed to workout that she’s actually supposed to be flying from the lame “special effect” and the fact that she’s waving the broom around in one hand. Just sit on it dear, help the audience out. We’re not mind readers.
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