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Post by joem on May 21, 2018 11:57:58 GMT
The fatal flaw was to get himself involved with a nutter for the sake of a few shags. I think "to have sexually exploited a poor and vulnerable young man" is a better way of putting it. Not for me. Scott, or Josiffe, was a significant architect in his own downfall. Thorpe was culpable but Scott was an adult and his vulnerability was not immediately apparent - not talking about the TV show here but in real life. He cottoned on to the possibility of gaining advantage from his meeting with Thorpe very quickly, it was just as pre-meditated as Thorpe's "seduction". |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 14:44:57 GMT
A lot of top actors will take some roles "for the money" as it enables them to have the freedom to take on more challenging and less commercial roles. Also to get Hugh to do TV work was a nice coup as he hasn't done a huge amount of even film roles in recent years. But he must still have bills to play and having had good reviews from Florence Foster Jenkins and now this. He has nicely positioned himself as a more serious actor whilst still having the "name" factor.
If he doesn't want major roles going forward he will always have a nice line in character roles playing the upper class father/uncle type roles.
Also doing this series with the BBC he has shown that he is willing to work away from film so effectively putting himself indirectly forward for Netflix type roles.
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Post by crowblack on May 21, 2018 15:24:16 GMT
Scott was an adult and his vulnerability was not immediately apparent He was mentally ill and approached Thorpe for help while penniless, homeless, without an NI card and after discharging himself from a psychiatric care clinic. He may have legally been an adult but it was hardly a relationship of equals. |
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Post by david on May 21, 2018 17:16:35 GMT
Just caught up with this now. Got to say, I really enjoyed this. You really believe Hugh Grant is Thorpe. Whoever decided to cast HG needs congratulating. Is it me, but why is it every time I now see Ben Whishaw in anything all I see is Paddington Bear?
Hopefully the other 2 episodes will be equally as good.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 18:46:08 GMT
Scott was an adult and his vulnerability was not immediately apparent He was mentally ill and approached Thorpe for help while penniless, homeless, without an NI card and after discharging himself from a psychiatric care clinic. He may have legally been an adult but it was hardly a relationship of equals. Scott was (is?) a fantasist, given to making himself sound more connected and important than he was, or to get sympathy, also regularly lying about his background, being from aristocratic stock. That he was also not being truthful about any mental illness was a plausible extension of that. Most people would steer clear of anyone who had lied as much as Scott did (although nothing excuses Thorpe’s subsequent criminal intent). This was a great first episode and Grant is uncanny but it is very much a story based on true events, not a documentary reconstruction. |
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Post by crowblack on May 21, 2018 19:13:16 GMT
'Stable' people with protective networks of family and friends are probably by definition not the sort who end up being the kept lovers, male or female, of wealthy men.
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Post by peelee on May 21, 2018 20:23:55 GMT
Quality production. Well done to all involved.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 20:37:29 GMT
Just caught up with this now. Got to say, I really enjoyed this. You really believe Hugh Grant is Thorpe. Whoever decided to cast HG needs congratulating. Is it me, but why is it every time I now see Ben Whishaw in anything all I see is Paddington Bear? Hopefully the other 2 episodes will be equally as good. Apparently, people on social media are calling this series Paddington 3. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2018 21:00:06 GMT
Caught up with this just now after having my appetite whetted by the comments on here, not to mention the universal glowing press reviews. Have been fascinated with the case since reading Auberon Waugh’s The Last Word some years ago now... I remember thinking that it sounded almost farcical, especially with the bungled assassination attempt coming up. It’s one of those stories that’s so far fetched it couldn’t be made up. So it was wholly appropriate that the choice was made to play this out at odds with the seriousness of the subject matter- all quirky music, snappy scenes, a little bit Carry On. Great cast too, and some superb one liners about queers, all fours and “pâté” being sent in the post!
Of course Jeremy Thorpe was a Bloody Fool and deserved his downfall, and Hugh Grant almost pulled it off; the only thing missing was a genuine seedy looking comb-over. Surely the most revolting thing about him... And as for Norman “Scott”- he was a clever user who sniffed out who he could take advantage of, while simultaneously allowing himself to be taken advantage of with the Vaseline when it suited him. In many respects they were well suited.
Looking forward to next week’s episode.
I bet Andrew Lloyd Webber’s kicking himself now; this one would have made a much better musical. He could have called it A Very English ‘Musical’ Scandal! With the exclamation mark.
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Post by david on May 21, 2018 21:01:10 GMT
Just caught up with this now. Got to say, I really enjoyed this. You really believe Hugh Grant is Thorpe. Whoever decided to cast HG needs congratulating. Is it me, but why is it every time I now see Ben Whishaw in anything all I see is Paddington Bear? Hopefully the other 2 episodes will be equally as good. Apparently, people on social media are calling this series Paddington 3. I wonder what the chances of Hugh bonneville making a cameo are?! |
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Post by Mr Snow on May 22, 2018 8:00:56 GMT
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Post by crabtree on May 22, 2018 8:37:50 GMT
It's not often that we are all unanimous about a piece of television, but this was excellent and stylish, and beautifully written. the dark underbelly stops it becoming too lighthearted.
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Post by Stephen on May 22, 2018 9:05:49 GMT
I agree with all that has been said above. This really is good stuff and superbly acted.
It's also nice to have an intimate scene feel so organic and slightly uncomfortable. Ben Whishaw does this very well.
Excited for episode 2!
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2018 10:52:37 GMT
joem how far did you get with your play about Thorpe?
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Post by TallPaul on May 22, 2018 12:27:48 GMT
In other Hugh Grant news, I don't know if he announced it, or if he was outed by an official marriage notice, but it was reported over the weekend that he is to marry Anna Eberstein, the mother of three of his five children.
Life imitating art?
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Post by lynette on May 22, 2018 14:51:20 GMT
Another wedding! With celebs! George Clooney and Amal!
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Post by hulmeman on May 22, 2018 18:03:55 GMT
Wonderful production and performances.
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Post by glossie on May 22, 2018 18:57:40 GMT
Excellent production, brilliant performances all round.
I remember the 'scandal' very well and also that most people seemed to believe that Jeremy Thorpe could not possibly have been involved in anything so shocking.
Indeed, someone I worked with uttered the immortal phrase "That poor man, I feel so sorry for him. I bet he doesn't know which way to turn..."
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Post by emsworthian on May 23, 2018 7:02:32 GMT
Excellent production, brilliant performances all round. I remember the 'scandal' very well and also that most people seemed to believe that Jeremy Thorpe could not possibly have been involved in anything so shocking. Indeed, someone I worked with uttered the immortal phrase "That poor man, I feel so sorry for him. I bet he doesn't know which way to turn..." Most of my friends at the time believed Thorpe was as guilty as hell.
I saw Thorpe a few years after the trial at Earls Court Station. He looked ill (he had been diagnosed with Parkinson's) and really seedy. I found it hard to believe that he had once been seen as a glamorous figure.
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Post by joem on May 23, 2018 7:50:08 GMT
joem how far did you get with your play about Thorpe? Not far enough. I had a pretty good idea of the story arc, characters and "angle" of the play, beginning and ending. A couple of key scenes. But I was still very much in the planning/research stage when the announcement of this production was made and wisely decided I couldn't compete with that! I was going to make Thorpe a Shakespearean tragic figure and the Scott incident (its consequence) was only going to be the turning point in the story rather than the whole of the narrative. Thorpe would have been the man who could have "broken the mould" of the dangerously polarised political situation on the mid-sixties to eighties in UK had it not been for his tragic flaw. Fanciful but then so is some of the detail on tv. Slightly concerned it is being taken by some as entirely indisputable histor rather than a biopic which uses facts and some conjecture to achieve its aim. Incidentally anyone who hasn't seen it should search out on youtube the Liberal Party broadcast from 1974. I won't say anything about it other than it has, probably by chance, a very disturbing connection. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2018 20:12:39 GMT
Incidentally anyone who hasn't seen it should search out on youtube the Liberal Party broadcast from 1974. I won't say anything about it other than it has, probably by chance, a very disturbing connection. Found the broadcast, I guessed what you were hinting at. There was of course another well known Liberal MP at the time who historic allegations have since come to light about and he was probably the most "Establishment member" of the party. |
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Post by theatreian on May 23, 2018 21:10:44 GMT
Just saw this tonight. Have to say really enjoyed it. Well acted although the way it was presented seemed a bit tongue in cheek at times.
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Post by joem on May 24, 2018 21:28:45 GMT
Incidentally anyone who hasn't seen it should search out on youtube the Liberal Party broadcast from 1974. I won't say anything about it other than it has, probably by chance, a very disturbing connection. Found the broadcast, I guessed what you were hinting at. There was of course another well known Liberal MP at the time who historic allegations have since come to light about and he was probably the most "Establishment member" of the party. Yes. But the cut from Jimmy Savile's message of support to Cyril Smith in the studio is like "wow!". |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 8:58:34 GMT
Just caught up with this now. Got to say, I really enjoyed this. You really believe Hugh Grant is Thorpe. Whoever decided to cast HG needs congratulating. Is it me, but why is it every time I now see Ben Whishaw in anything all I see is Paddington Bear? Hopefully the other 2 episodes will be equally as good. Apparently, people on social media are calling this series Paddington 3. Do you think Russell T Davis inserted into the text references to Paddington as an in-joke? I noticed that in the scene on the bus Thorpe talks about Paddington station and when he holds his newborn he calls him Rupert Bear. |
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Post by david on May 25, 2018 11:43:37 GMT
Apparently, people on social media are calling this series Paddington 3. Do you think Russell T Davis inserted into the text references to Paddington as an in-joke? I noticed that in the scene on the bus Thorpe talks about Paddington station and when he holds his newborn he calls him Rupert Bear. I hope so. I mean with BW and HG together in the same show post Paddington, it would be rude not to! |
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