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Post by andrew on Feb 27, 2018 18:10:38 GMT
Nooooooooooooooooooo
Bad first impressions from the board...
I'm starting to feel bad for Rufus.
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Post by david on Feb 27, 2018 18:37:45 GMT
I’m doing a double show day with this and absolute hell at the end of April,so hopefully things will pick up before then. If these few postings are any reflection of the audience feeling as a whole there could be a few returns popping up. This was a play that I was really looking forward to as I have never had a chance to see it before now.
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385 posts
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Post by Ade on Feb 27, 2018 19:00:47 GMT
I cannot be bothered to write a full review of a preview on my site so you are getting my rant, which I hope to all the Gods it improves because it cannot carry on like this. Too long, too slow and just all round poor production of a play that can be quite interesting, especially the supernatural element and the faith Macbeth has in these witches to commit acts he wouldn't have even considered before meeting them, the dynamic of the marriage just isn't there, the sense of Scottishness or even monarchy isn't there. There aren't bad performances as such but I feel like they weren't given anything to explore in depth so are relying on their own skill at Shakespeare/Performance rather than a refreshed look at the text. I think RuNo has seen a lot of good directors (Farber, Hytner etc) fill that Olivier stage and taken a lot of their style and signature. I am now wondering if Norris is like Emma Rice and is just indifferent to Shakespeare. I am not saying you need to be an SRB-esque obsessive but it's biggest failing is understanding why it is being staged like that and why now? Hytner's Julius Caesar has clearly looked at the rise of Corbyn, Trump and rally politics. This felt like a passable fringe production that had access to an expensive smoke machine. I expect more of the National Theatre but that probably says more about me. I did tweet about it if you want to read my interval tweets thread Nooo I’ve taken a chance on this. So nearly gave it a miss but decided to bite the bullet because I’m trying to see more Shakespeare. What had originally stopped me was the Rufus Norris factor. Aside from Mosquitoes which was more passable I have not enjoyed anything I have seen from him at the National because it has always feels like each production has lots of ideas that don’t really amass to anything or end up feeling very disjointed and amateur. Living in hope that this is just one opinion or that it will improve. |
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Post by crabtree on Feb 27, 2018 22:00:52 GMT
I do so love Macbeth, remembering Sher and Walter, and more recently the RSC Jonathan Singer version with the children. Going way back Jonathan Pryce was great, but Nicol Williamson was not. And then the legendary Dench/Mckellen was truly thrilling, and the Hopkins/Rigg was good. The worst, and ye gods it was bad, was the royal exchange's concentration camp version with Threlfall and Francis Barber.....horrorific indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 22:13:09 GMT
I had no idea that this production has already announced an 18 city tour starting in Salford in September 2018 (though with tour casting to be announced). Full dates are on the Macbeth page on the NT site.
Granted there may have been various reasons, but I rather wish the NT could have chosen to tour something like Amadeus, Network, Follies or even Pinocchio instead of taking a risk on touring this Macbeth which sounds like it hasn't gone off to a good start.
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270 posts
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Post by littlesally on Feb 27, 2018 22:15:20 GMT
Anyone remember the car crash that was Rylance and Horrocks at Greenwich? Quite possibly the worst Shakespeare I’ve endured.
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1,107 posts
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Post by alicechallice on Feb 27, 2018 22:31:30 GMT
I had no idea that this production has already announced an 18 city tour starting in Salford in September 2018 (though with tour casting to be announced). Full dates are on the Macbeth page on the NT site. Granted there may have been various reasons, but I rather wish the NT could have chosen to tour something like Amadeus, Network, Follies or even Pinocchio instead of taking a risk on touring this Macbeth which sounds like it hasn't gone off to a good start. It was only announced last week, I think, so you can be forgiven I'm sure. |
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Post by Spectator on Feb 27, 2018 22:33:24 GMT
So...I liked this.
It’s long; I don’t know the text that well, but not sure a single line was cut (was just under three hours tonight, so assuming some edits have been made since last night.)
Kinnear does chart the descent into madness very effectively and Anne-Marie Duff is basically amazing - actually making you sympathise along the way rather than right at the end, if at all. Don’t think there were any weak links in the cast.
The setting does take some getting used to and probably will divide people. Personally, felt the near-future dystopian was a lot less gimmicky than traditional modern-dress settings. There was a risk this could have shouted “IT’S ABOUT BREXIT”, but it opted for something more subtle and novel.
Appreciate it’s nearly sold out for the run, but would be a shame if this gets a mauling given the calibre of the performances and innovative (if risky) effort to take one of the best-known tragedies in a different direction.
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Post by callum on Feb 28, 2018 0:16:54 GMT
Also saw this tonight, to use Spectator's word, it definitely does not merit a mauling. Instead it was an unremarkable telling of a familiar story that for me had its thumb on the scale of style rather than substance. Act I (i.e. not the first half, but the first act out of the five) was definitely the weakest, the party scene before Duncan's death was very peculiar and gave me flashbacks to the Pleasure Island sequence in Pinnochio.. what where they thinking?! All booming music and Fleance walking around in a cardboard box. And Duncan doing Dad dancing. His murder was sadly pretty muted (though warranted after his dancing), especially compared to the final battle that was a lot more exciting.
Thankfully things did improve from there - in particular the development and descent of Kinnear and Duff into madness. They are the two best things about the production. Both of them went hell for leather. Banquo made a great re-appearance and like I mentioned, the final battle between Macduff and Macbeth was very engaging. Gender and colour-blind casting throughout, (Ross is now Rosse) and also wonderful to see an actress with a physical disability playing the Gentlewoman. Probably just over half the cast were playing RP, the rest having accents all over the place with a scouse Banquo, geordie Porter and Yorkshire Rosse. Yet while I think not a single line was cut (it ended at 10.20, for those keeping an eye out), Donalbain was unfortunately thrown to the scrapheap. Not on the cast list so I guess his lines were shared out - is it common practice for Donalbain to be cut? Forgive my ignorance. No Hecate either (which I know is far less untypical), but perhaps this is more surprising when the witches lurk in the background for quite a few scenes where they don't have lines. Ditto Banquo and Duncan. And it's not as if there was much else restraint in this production.
The scene where Lady Macduff and child get offed was truly excruciating... young Macduff's wig (understandably played by an adult) was the worst wig I've ever seen in a theatre. When he delivered the line 'he has killed me, mother' (yeah... duh!) in that godawful wig I had to stop myself from cracking up. Definitely a sight to be seen.
I think the aesthetic they were going for was post-apocalyptic - the cast list says setting: now, after a civil war. But this was a bit inconsistent - Macbeth's castle was extremely drab compared to the plush leather sofas Malcolm ends up having in England. But maybe I focus on the wrong things... Still, it wasn't particularly distracting after the first 30 minutes or so and ultimately fit well with the rest of the show.
In the end, I don't think this will be remembered as a classic production but I wouldn't be too down on it... Kinnear and Duff alone are worth making the visit. House fairly full (with Simon Russell Beale in attendance) though no standers. Ask away if there are any more questions.
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Post by AddisonMizner on Feb 28, 2018 6:36:32 GMT
Is there a possibility that the two leads will tour with this production? I see that most dates at the National are sold out, and I would have liked to have seen them in it. The tour is coming to Nottingham, so I will probably get tickets for it when they go on sale.
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Post by Jan on Feb 28, 2018 7:00:48 GMT
I do so love Macbeth, remembering Sher and Walter, and more recently the RSC Jonathan Singer version with the children. Going way back Jonathan Pryce was great, but Nicol Williamson was not. And then the legendary Dench/Mckellen was truly thrilling, and the Hopkins/Rigg was good. The worst, and ye gods it was bad, was the royal exchange's concentration camp version with Threlfall and Francis Barber.....horrorific indeed. The Nicol WIlliamson one was directed by Trevor Nunn on the main stage and he was so dissatisfied with it he immediately directed it again with McKellen in the Other Place. The best I've seen was the Rupert Goold/Patrick Stewart one. Doran's with Sher and Harriet Walter was also very good. Amongst many duds Simon Russell-Beale's at the Almeida represents one of the most misguided pieces of casting ever. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 7:01:38 GMT
Anyone remember the car crash that was Rylance and Horrocks at Greenwich? Quite possibly the worst Shakespeare I’ve endured. Yes. Jane Horrocks pissed herself in the mad scene. How she managed to do this on cue every night I’m not sure. I remember feeling very sorry for Gentlewoman who then had to mop it up every night before the next scene. |
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 28, 2018 7:02:33 GMT
Going to this on 23 June after seeing the RSC version on 5 May.
Have an open mind as this board is full of plays that have had good or even very good reviews after being rubbished here by someone who went to the first preview.
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1,119 posts
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Post by martin1965 on Feb 28, 2018 7:06:12 GMT
I do so love Macbeth, remembering Sher and Walter, and more recently the RSC Jonathan Singer version with the children. Going way back Jonathan Pryce was great, but Nicol Williamson was not. And then the legendary Dench/Mckellen was truly thrilling, and the Hopkins/Rigg was good. The worst, and ye gods it was bad, was the royal exchange's concentration camp version with Threlfall and Francis Barber.....horrorific indeed. The Nicol WIlliamson one was directed by Trevor Nunn on the main stage and he was so dissatisfied with it he immediately directed it again with McKellen in the Other Place. The best I've seen was the Rupert Goold/Patrick Stewart one. Doran's with Sher and Harriet Walter was also very good. Amongst many duds Simon Russell-Beale's at the Almeida represents one of the most misguided pieces of casting ever. Did you see that prof? On paper Williamson and Mirren must have seem like good casting. Back in the 60s Peter Hall directed Paul Scofield in what apparently was a big flop at Stratford. This year's double header will be interesting. |
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Post by Jan on Feb 28, 2018 7:44:15 GMT
The Nicol WIlliamson one was directed by Trevor Nunn on the main stage and he was so dissatisfied with it he immediately directed it again with McKellen in the Other Place. The best I've seen was the Rupert Goold/Patrick Stewart one. Doran's with Sher and Harriet Walter was also very good. Amongst many duds Simon Russell-Beale's at the Almeida represents one of the most misguided pieces of casting ever. Did you see that prof? On paper Williamson and Mirren must have seem like good casting. Back in the 60s Peter Hall directed Paul Scofield in what apparently was a big flop at Stratford. This year's double header will be interesting. Didn't see the Nunn ones. Scofield was not alone, Olivier, Gielgud and Ralph Richardson all played it with limited success at best. In the Gielgud production Ernest Thesiger played the First Witch - directors don't make things easy for themselves. |
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Post by bordeaux on Feb 28, 2018 7:48:47 GMT
I do so love Macbeth, remembering Sher and Walter, and more recently the RSC Jonathan Singer version with the children. Going way back Jonathan Pryce was great, but Nicol Williamson was not. And then the legendary Dench/Mckellen was truly thrilling, and the Hopkins/Rigg was good. The worst, and ye gods it was bad, was the royal exchange's concentration camp version with Threlfall and Francis Barber.....horrorific indeed. The Nicol WIlliamson one was directed by Trevor Nunn on the main stage and he was so dissatisfied with it he immediately directed it again with McKellen in the Other Place. The best I've seen was the Rupert Goold/Patrick Stewart one. Doran's with Sher and Harriet Walter was also very good. Amongst many duds Simon Russell-Beale's at the Almeida represents one of the most misguided pieces of casting ever. And Richard Eyre's at the NT with Alan Howard was a failure (1993), though somewhat better than Adrian Noble's with Derek Jacobi, another spectacular piece of miscasting (and also 1993 Google tells me). It's a difficult play to get right. Most of the Hamlets and Lears and Othellos I've seen have been excellent - but only two of the Macbeths (the Goold and Doran ones), and even those haven't hit the heights of the greatest Hamlets and Lears). |
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Post by Jan on Feb 28, 2018 7:54:56 GMT
The Nicol WIlliamson one was directed by Trevor Nunn on the main stage and he was so dissatisfied with it he immediately directed it again with McKellen in the Other Place. The best I've seen was the Rupert Goold/Patrick Stewart one. Doran's with Sher and Harriet Walter was also very good. Amongst many duds Simon Russell-Beale's at the Almeida represents one of the most misguided pieces of casting ever. And Richard Eyre's at the NT with Alan Howard was a failure (1993), though somewhat better than Adrian Noble's with Derek Jacobi, another spectacular piece of miscasting (and also 1993 Google tells me). It's a difficult play to get right. Most of the Hamlets and Lears and Othellos I've seen have been excellent - but only two of the Macbeths (the Goold and Doran ones), and even those haven't hit the heights of the greatest Hamlets and Lears). Yes, the Alan Howard one, no good. I mentioned above the Michael Pennington one where (ludicrously) in the fight scenes men in kilts went at it in thick fog with massive broadswords. Even the great Greg Hicks was disappointing in the role. |
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Post by jasper on Feb 28, 2018 7:57:38 GMT
Macbeth seems to have more bad productions than good. No one who saw it can forget the O'Toole one at the Old Vic, but it sold out every night. The best Macbeth I saw was at the Warehouse in 1987, although I cannot remember who was in it. Played straight through and in typical Cheek style (for then) with minimal props. The other productions I have seen have not delivered the goods despite having top flight casts. Missed Dench and Stewart ones. I think I am giving up on Macbeth and will stick to reading it.
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Post by Jan on Feb 28, 2018 10:24:58 GMT
Macbeth seems to have more bad productions than good. No one who saw it can forget the O'Toole one at the Old Vic, but it sold out every night. The best Macbeth I saw was at the Warehouse in 1987, although I cannot remember who was in it. Played straight through and in typical Cheek style (for then) with minimal props. The other productions I have seen have not delivered the goods despite having top flight casts. Missed Dench and Stewart ones. I think I am giving up on Macbeth and will stick to reading it. Keith Bartlett was Cheek by Jowl’s first Macbeth. Actually their second one with Will Keen was OK too. |
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Post by barelyathletic on Feb 28, 2018 10:35:47 GMT
Patrick Stewart and Kate Fleetwood were fantastic I thought in Rupert Goold's production, cold, ruthless, brutal and utterly mesmerising. The best I've seen. It was brilliantly thought through, and its echoes of the civil war in what was Yugoslavia, seemed horribly contemporary and close to home. The film version, along with Goold's film of Richard II, for me, rank among the best Shakespeare films I've seen. He should do more.
I decided I'd rather fork out to see the RSC than the NT production but did grab some £15 for this in the end. It's got to be worth that I think. It will be interesting to see what people think once this has settled in more.
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Post by Boob on Feb 28, 2018 10:44:21 GMT
Does anyone remember the awful Ed Hall helmed Sean Bean/Samantha Bond production in the West End that also, inexplicably, seemed to feature a low rent version of the Opera Babes?
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Post by alexandra on Feb 28, 2018 10:50:50 GMT
Danny Sapani and Monica Dolan by Cheek by Jowl at the Arcola. Best by a mile, exceptional leads. Paid 10 pence to be shown the Macduff bodies. Then thought, belatedly: what am I doing?
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Post by Jan on Feb 28, 2018 11:13:51 GMT
Danny Sapani and Monica Dolan by Cheek by Jowl at the Arcola. Best by a mile, exceptional leads. Paid 10 pence to be shown the Macduff bodies. Then thought, belatedly: what am I doing? Out Of Joint actually wasn’t it - Max Stafford-Clark. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 12:27:51 GMT
Danny Sapani and Monica Dolan by Cheek by Jowl at the Arcola. Best by a mile, exceptional leads. Paid 10 pence to be shown the Macduff bodies. Then thought, belatedly: what am I doing? Out Of Joint actually wasn’t it - Max Stafford-Clark. 'twas indeed. |
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Post by alexandra on Feb 28, 2018 15:35:52 GMT
Yes indeed. Cheek by Jowl produced the best ever Tempest (the Russian one).
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