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Post by kathryn on Nov 21, 2017 11:22:35 GMT
Well, since the analysis was done by oxfordsimon, I’m sure if you ask nicely he can share his data and methods with you, and you can double-check his result.
Because if it’s wrong it’s either down to incomplete data or a flawed methodology.
Or it might be the case that ‘quite a few’ does indeed constitute about 5% of productions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 14:01:13 GMT
Looking at these lists makes the paucity of female playwrights performed at the NT completely shocking. Wouldn't it be great if they tried to have even one year with a 50:50 gender balance? They are committed to doing exactly that by 2021 and from then on so why keep moaning ? The fact they currently don’t must mean the plays submitted to them by female writers are even worse than those by male authors they’ve been inflicting on their audience - barely seems possible I know. I don’t believe that women submitted plays that were poorer than those submitted by men. Most plays are produced because they are championed through the system by directors. And Even if you are correct in this (and I honestly don’t think you are) the Theatre has a duty to develop those writers. We can and should continue moaning on about it in support of female writers whose work we would really like to see produced.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 14:13:18 GMT
I know I've seen articles around fairly recently stating that generally women can get a debut play staged about as easily as men can, however there's much less support for follow-ups. Everyone wants the next big thing so they keep fishing around for that instead of developing what they already have. After your first play, what happens next depends on who you've networked with.
Honestly, the idea that - in the broadest sense - women just maybe aren't as good at writing as men is so utterly childish and demonstrably untrue that I find it hard to believe that someone who has the intelligence to contribute to conversations using words of more than one syllable could ever give it serious consideration.
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Post by profquatermass on Nov 21, 2017 18:55:49 GMT
Looking at these lists makes the paucity of female playwrights performed at the NT completely shocking. Wouldn't it be great if they tried to have even one year with a 50:50 gender balance? They are committed to doing exactly that by 2021 and from then on so why keep moaning ? The fact they currently don’t must mean the plays submitted to them by female writers are even worse than those by male authors they’ve been inflicting on their audience - barely seems possible I know. I wasn't aware that I had been 'keeping moaning'. However the National isn't just about new plays. Why isn't a revival of The Little Foxes or Susan and God or Dear Octopus or The Rover or Sex or Steaming or many others just as worthwhile a project as Damned by Despair or The Kitchen or From Morning 'til Midnight or The Captain of Copernik or many of the others less than successful revivals they've had in the last few years. You surely can't claim there is nothing listed here worthy of a revival
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 19:13:58 GMT
Women writing plays? How marvellous.
We'll be letting them vote soon, mark my words.
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Post by lynette on Nov 21, 2017 19:47:05 GMT
Lurve this thread and yes, why not revive a few of them, o NT?
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Post by kathryn on Nov 21, 2017 20:03:01 GMT
They are committed to doing exactly that by 2021 and from then on so why keep moaning ? The fact they currently don’t must mean the plays submitted to them by female writers are even worse than those by male authors they’ve been inflicting on their audience - barely seems possible I know. I wasn't aware that I had been 'keeping moaning'. However the National isn't just about new plays. Why isn't a revival of The Little Foxes or Susan and God or Dear Octopus or The Rover or Sex or Steaming or many others just as worthwhile a project as Damned by Despair or The Kitchen or From Morning 'til Midnight or The Captain of Copernik or many of the others less than successful revivals they've had in the last few years. You surely can't claim there is nothing listed here worthy of a revival We saw a student production of The Rover at RADA a few years ago, and it made us wonder why we hadn’t seen any major productions of it at the NT since we started going. It’s big and broad enough to work in the Olivier!
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Nov 21, 2017 20:47:02 GMT
Looking at these lists makes the paucity of female playwrights performed at the NT completely shocking. Wouldn't it be great if they tried to have even one year with a 50:50 gender balance? They are committed to doing exactly that by 2021 and from then on so why keep moaning ? The fact they currently don’t must mean the plays submitted to them by female writers are even worse than those by male authors they’ve been inflicting on their audience - barely seems possible I know. My job involves a minor amount of involvement in the NT's new writing process. The proposed scheme to achieve gender parity by 2021 is an excellent idea but is still in the very early stages, and realistically major changes will need to happen if this proposal is to come to fruition. You have to remember that the NT does not operate an open submissions policy. Playwrights cannot simply "submit" a script to them. Unless you are established, you have to be invited to submit a script. Meaning playwrights need to either have some profile from work staged elsewhere, or have a connection, to get their script read there. The majority of scripts that make it out of NYS development to full production do not come about as the result of a playwright submitting a script, but via commissioning or a director taking a project to them. St George and the Dragon was commissioned and programmed before the script was written.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 0:40:11 GMT
A Taste of Honey Light Shining in Buckinghamshire Our Country's Good Jane Eyre Cleansed You surely can't claim there is nothing listed here worthy of a revival
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 15:09:11 GMT
They are committed to doing exactly that by 2021 and from then on so why keep moaning ? The fact they currently don’t must mean the plays submitted to them by female writers are even worse than those by male authors they’ve been inflicting on their audience - barely seems possible I know. My job involves a minor amount of involvement in the NT's new writing process. The proposed scheme to achieve gender parity by 2021 is an excellent idea but is still in the very early stages, and realistically major changes will need to happen if this proposal is to come to fruition. You have to remember that the NT does not operate an open submissions policy. Playwrights cannot simply "submit" a script to them. Unless you are established, you have to be invited to submit a script. Meaning playwrights need to either have some profile from work staged elsewhere, or have a connection, to get their script read there. The majority of scripts that make it out of NYS development to full production do not come about as the result of a playwright submitting a script, but via commissioning or a director taking a project to them. St George and the Dragon was commissioned and programmed before the script was written. I am absolutely shocked that St G and the Dragon was programmed before he delivered a script I have never heard of such a thing. That places so much pressure on the writer to have a script ready in time. Writers just don’t work like that - unless they’re writing for TV.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 15:35:40 GMT
We saw a student production of The Rover at RADA a few years ago, and it made us wonder why we hadn’t seen any major productions of it at the NT since we started going. It’s big and broad enough to work in the Olivier! The RSC's production of The Rover last year was excellent - seemed far more deserving of a transfer than all the other RSC productions which did end up on London. Re programming St George before the script was written - same happened with Richard Bean's "Count of Monte Cristo" although in that case the play was pulled, after tickets went on sale.
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Post by Jan on Nov 22, 2017 16:21:12 GMT
They are committed to doing exactly that by 2021 and from then on so why keep moaning ? The fact they currently don’t must mean the plays submitted to them by female writers are even worse than those by male authors they’ve been inflicting on their audience - barely seems possible I know. I wasn't aware that I had been 'keeping moaning'. However the National isn't just about new plays. Why isn't a revival of The Little Foxes or Susan and God or Dear Octopus or The Rover or Sex or Steaming or many others just as worthwhile a project as Damned by Despair or The Kitchen or From Morning 'til Midnight or The Captain of Copernik or many of the others less than successful revivals they've had in the last few years. You surely can't claim there is nothing listed here worthy of a revival That is a separate issue really, they daren’t revive any plays that won’t have a chance of filling the Lyttelton or Olivier and not many of the ones you list will. When they allowed revivals in the Cottesloe they DID programme Enchantment and Rutherford and Son as I mentioned above - now it would be impossible for them to stage those two. I don’t think The Rover would fill the bigger houses and anyway the RSC have done it twice. I saw The Lucky Chance years ago and it is worth reviving but again it is a Cottesloe show.
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Post by lynette on Nov 22, 2017 18:31:57 GMT
If they have to invite a writer to submit a script, then may I respectfully ask them to approach a few more people.
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Post by profquatermass on Nov 22, 2017 19:06:22 GMT
There are plenty of plays by women that could do well and it's bizarre to say otherwise. These Three was revived in the West End a few years - why shouldn't the NT give another Lilian Hellman a try? His Girl Friday and Once in a Lifetime have proved there's a market for pre-war Americana - maybe someone should give the original stage version of Chicago a punt. Or one of Mae West's plays. Dear Octopus was revived on a regular basis until the 1970s. Dodie Smith is just as much of a name as Priestley. There are loads of plays listed in this thread that I would love to see and I'm clearly not alone
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 19:26:37 GMT
My job involves a minor amount of involvement in the NT's new writing process. The proposed scheme to achieve gender parity by 2021 is an excellent idea but is still in the very early stages, and realistically major changes will need to happen if this proposal is to come to fruition. You have to remember that the NT does not operate an open submissions policy. Playwrights cannot simply "submit" a script to them. Unless you are established, you have to be invited to submit a script. Meaning playwrights need to either have some profile from work staged elsewhere, or have a connection, to get their script read there. The majority of scripts that make it out of NYS development to full production do not come about as the result of a playwright submitting a script, but via commissioning or a director taking a project to them. St George and the Dragon was commissioned and programmed before the script was written. I am absolutely shocked that St G and the Dragon was programmed before he delivered a script I have never heard of such a thing. That places so much pressure on the writer to have a script ready in time. Writers just don’t work like that - unless they’re writing for TV. That is literally how commissioning works. You're asked to write a play about x including y. Usually places like the NT and other bigger 'new writing' organisations there will be a process- from a 'treatment' type stage (to borrow more from TV/Film) through drafts and workshops with either literary assistant/manager/dramaturg attached to it to support a writer. If it's a smaller producing team that depends on the relationship there- some team up with AD's/the director of the piece early on for support, others disappear into their writer-hole and emerge fully formed with a piece. Some writers love that way of working others hate it. I read somewhere from someone (helpful) the other day they will 'never do a commission' because they hate writing what someone tells them to. If a play is commissioned by a theatre, the very definition is it doesn't exist beforehand. Otherwise it would be from 'submissions'...of which the NT only takes invited plays as samuelwhiskers says above.
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Post by kathryn on Nov 22, 2017 20:15:07 GMT
And they do reach out to multiple writers - I remember Hytner saying that the infamous Greenland was a combination of bits from different scripts after they’d invited submissions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 20:18:39 GMT
And they do reach out to multiple writers - I remember Hytner saying that the infamous Greenland was a combination of bits from different scripts after they’d invited submissions. I'm sure there's a story about multiple writers 'abandoning ship' on some big NT script as well that was a disaster. I forget which- must be in one of the books on the NT. But they have various 'lists' on the go of writers for x or y that get approached, and the lucky (unlucky depending on how it all pans out?) one gets it. Personally, as a writer commissioning, despite the pressure, is quite nice because the initial 'Great Idea' (or again not) is out of your hands.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 15:51:28 GMT
National Theatre Wales has today put on-sale two productions (Pearson/Brookes' STORM.1 and STORM.2) with no writers credited. Maybe, found texts will be used or adapted?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 15:57:56 GMT
"Conceived, designed and directed by Mike Pearson and Mike Brookes", sounds fairly unambiguous to me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 16:13:19 GMT
"Conceived, designed and directed by Mike Pearson and Mike Brookes", sounds fairly unambiguous to me. You mean they are using found texts and assembling them without the assistance of a writer? Yes, probably.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 18:17:36 GMT
There are plenty of plays by women that could do well and it's bizarre to say otherwise. These Three was revived in the West End a few years - why shouldn't the NT give another Lilian Hellman a try? His Girl Friday and Once in a Lifetime have proved there's a market for pre-war Americana - maybe someone should give the original stage version of Chicago a punt. Or one of Mae West's plays. Dear Octopus was revived on a regular basis until the 1970s. Dodie Smith is just as much of a name as Priestley. There are loads of plays listed in this thread that I would love to see and I'm clearly not alone I agree. If theatres worry about filling the space they just have to cast “stars”. That’ll put bums on seats.
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Post by showgirl on Sept 29, 2018 5:01:01 GMT
Given the comment by oxfordsimon in the current discussion on the NT's 2019 programming, I thought it worth posting this excerpt from an interview with Deborah McAndrew who was interviewed for an article on Northern Broadsides' new touring version of a Dario Fo play, which she has adapted: "There has been a lot of debate recently about an absence of new plays by female writers. What are your thoughts about this? I feel a little strange talking about this, as I’m always busy. That said, the only way I’ve managed to write an original play (not an adaptation) in the past 4 years is through my own company – Claybody Theatre. There is a long way to go before women are commissioned on the same basis as men in the British theatre. The arts and culture writer Victoria Sadler’s work on this is most compelling – she has reviewed the top 6 London Theatres’ programming in relation to commissioning for the past three years. This is not conjecture, or anecdote, or opinion, but fact. I refer you to her article for the detail, but her conclusion is that female playwrights are not being platformed or supported on the main stages of London. I think the picture is better in the regional theatres, but it’s clear that the higher up the ‘food chain’ you go the fewer women writers you’ll find. A quick glance at the RSC’s new writing page shows 12 new recently produced works – 3 of which are by women." (From the website now called The Reviews Hub but formerly The Public Reviews)
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Post by kathryn on Sept 29, 2018 9:46:52 GMT
Arguably it should be the job of the subsidised sector to support those developing writers until they have commercial draw. But it’s a process, and it’ll take time for results to be seen.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2018 9:48:28 GMT
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Sept 29, 2018 13:15:00 GMT
The problem is male playwrights disproportionately get given the chance to prove themselves in main spaces while woman don’t. I’ve seen men with relatively little experience given huge commissions, while women with far more experience and a proven track record of critically and commercially acclaimed fringe/touring/studio space shows remain overlooked.
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