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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 24, 2017 20:51:42 GMT
Not sure what is behind our Royal Prince's eagerness to spill after 20 years of treating the media as the enemy. Not just this programme but the whole recent openness about mental health etc from Harry (you'd never get the future King talking about that, of course). Im just a bt confused by it really. As for Diana herself.... that Sunday morning I will never forget. I got up after a late night and jumped in my car to go to MFI's kitchen sale. I couldn't understand why the car radio had all the sad music on, until the announcement came on. I rang my mum later that day and she said "we'll never see that beautiful face again".  |
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Post by infofreako on Jul 24, 2017 21:12:06 GMT
I remember the day well. I woke to Radio 1 playing very sombre music including an instrumental version of a song by The Aloof called One Night Stand. It was a strange day and the events that follow have an awful lot to answer for when it comes to todays public shows of grief that are far more commonplace now. I seem to be in a minority with my lack of interest in grieving for people I've never met.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 4:50:21 GMT
I seem to be in a minority with my lack of interest in grieving for people I've never met. Me too. Worldwide around a quarter of a million complete strangers die every day and their deaths are ignored by everyone who doesn't know them. One of those strangers happens to make the headlines and suddenly everyone is supposed to mourn, even though the person is exactly as much of a stranger as all the others and the amount of tragedy is no different. My main memory of Diana's death is that I was supposed to be going to see Lucky Stiff at the Bridewell and they phoned me to tell me it was cancelled just as I was going out the door. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 7:42:50 GMT
She died on my friend's Birthday and we were going to Oakwood theme park for their 'After Dark' summer sessions, but although the park was still open all the extras- fireworks, music etc were cancelled...my friend was not a happy bunny if I recall.
I mean it's very sad that the Princes lost their Mum but I do find it hard to work up interest 20 years later.
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Post by stefy69 on Jul 25, 2017 7:51:47 GMT
Always reminds me of Have I Got News For You edition when conspiracy stories around her death were being mooted and Paul Merton was asked Who had the most to gain from her death _ The reply " Elton John " , Priceless humour.
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Post by publius on Jul 25, 2017 8:02:39 GMT
The 'Dianafication' of grievance is something I can never get used to or accept as remotely British.
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Post by hulmeman on Jul 25, 2017 8:07:55 GMT
Yes, like BurlyBeaR, I'm finding it difficult to understand why. I guess timing is every thing. Perhaps they think they have enough public profile to be listened to. I dunno.
As for where you were on that fateful day, My then partner and I were on the Greek Island of Andros. I was on the balcony having an early morning ciggie and coffee when a local man came and in his broken English told me how sorry he was about the English Princess. We went to the tour rep's office to hear the whole sorry story. For the funeral, we went to stay with our friends in Athens and watched it all on Greek TV. We missed all the public outcry about the Queen's response (or lack) so all that was a surprise for later. Infofreako is so right to point out the step change which this country went through in terms of public emotion. The Royal Family were not accustomed to or used to such displays and for what it's worth, I still think the Queen was right to keep hidden away in Balmoral and concentrate on the welfare of the Princes at that devastating time, rather than appease the feelings of Denise from Daventry who bought a bunch of Tesco flowers to The Mall.
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Post by londonmzfitz on Jul 25, 2017 8:58:49 GMT
I loved her.
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Post by duncan on Jul 25, 2017 9:01:03 GMT
The week the South of England went mad, thankfully up here we remained a sense of perspective and got on with our lives until the South of England demanded the country effectively shut down for her funeral.
The scheme goblins who were out throwing flowers and demanding the Queen cry on demand should all be ashamed of themselves for their complete over reaction to the death of someone they didn't actually know.
If she comes back from the dead then let me know and I'll be interested but right now its ghoulish sentimentalism around someone who has been dead for two decades.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 9:09:19 GMT
I don't see anything inherently wrong in mourning someone you've never met. People can have an effect on your life whether they're a family member or friend, or just an artist whose works have impacted you in some way. I cried for weeks when my favourite childhood author died, and I'm still fairly upset about Tim Pigott-Smith. I agree that a Diana-sized outpouring of national grief is an extreme that I can't quite gel with myself, but at the same time I can't quite bring myself to be one of those tedious people who thinks it's okay to police other people's grief.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 9:21:00 GMT
One thing I remember about Diana's funeral is some of the mourners arriving at Long Buckby railway station, and the cameras being careful to avoid the station nameplates on which the "by" and part of the "B" had been painted over.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 9:21:02 GMT
I don't see anything inherently wrong in mourning someone you've never met. People can have an effect on your life whether they're a family member or friend, or just an artist whose works have impacted you in some way. I cried for weeks when my favourite childhood author died, and I'm still fairly upset about Tim Pigott-Smith. I agree that a Diana-sized outpouring of national grief is an extreme that I can't quite gel with myself, but at the same time I can't quite bring myself to be one of those tedious people who thinks it's okay to police other people's grief. Indeed. Though it works both ways- particularly in the social media era there's a weird pressure to be SO UPSET and shout about it every time someone 'notable' dies even though personally they may mean nothing to you. But while I personally say didn't grieve particularly for say Bowie (respect the man, sad he died but no personal connection) I have no problem with people individually or collectively doing so because there are plenty of people I have/will be devastated about when the time comes.
Same with Diana, while I personally can't understand the mass grief, and I think it's a pretty rare thing, particularly for a Royal, I sort of remember shrugging and getting on with me life. To each their own etc.
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Post by publius on Jul 25, 2017 9:33:19 GMT
I don't see anything inherently wrong in mourning someone you've never met. People can have an effect on your life whether they're a family member or friend, or just an artist whose works have impacted you in some way. I cried for weeks when my favourite childhood author died, and I'm still fairly upset about Tim Pigott-Smith. I agree that a Diana-sized outpouring of national grief is an extreme that I can't quite gel with myself, but at the same time I can't quite bring myself to be one of those tedious people who thinks it's okay to police other people's grief. I shed a tear when Ali died. Also when Bowie, George Best and Rick Parfitt died. Of course I knew none personally though each had contributed to the memories of my life through various ways (my ex wife is a huge Status Quo fan who dragged me along to a number of their concerts so my tears were for that rather than any love of their music... So to clarify!) but I certainly wasn't mourning or suffering grief. I also understand that Diana played a huge and significant role in the nation's collective memory during her lifetime so will evoke sympathy at her passing. However, I think most people raising eyebrows were doing so because the extent of the displayed "grief". Obviously this isn't an opinion formed post scientific experiment or research, but I have little doubt that some/many/most were so caught up in the hysteria that they were compelled to feign how affected they were to assure they didn't stand out. As you say, we cannot and should not try and control people's genuine grief but we also have a right to be sceptical about it too if we doubt it is genuine. |
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Post by infofreako on Jul 25, 2017 9:44:50 GMT
publius thats pretty much where I am with it. I dont doubt that some were genuinely affected by it and felt compelled to display their grief. I do feel there were many more who saw this and decided they should show theirs too because of a perception that they should be doing so. Ive only been compelled to place flowers at one such event, that being the Shoreham airshow disaster. I knew on a passing basis 2 of the lads who died. I was amazed to see so many expensive floral tributes from people with no direct connection and I dont fully grasp the need for public display
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Post by alece10 on Jul 25, 2017 10:05:40 GMT
I thought it was a well made documentary and the boys spoke well.
I remember the day she died as I had been working nights and had not watched tv. When I woke up and turned on the tv it took a good few minutes for me to realise what they were talking about.
I remember going up to Buckingham Palace that evening and how quiet everyone was just walking around.
Also went to Kensington Palace a few days later to place flowers there and the smell of the flowers was incredible.
Can't say I will watch the planned C4 documentary with the secret tapes. Not really the time or place to broadcast this.
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Post by Ruby Sue on Jul 25, 2017 10:14:35 GMT
I wonder if it's because so much is written & broadcast about them & their mother it's their chance to tell the story from their perspective.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 10:17:19 GMT
I wonder if it's because so much is written & broadcast about them & their mother it's their chance to tell the story from their perspective. I'd imagine so. And I also get a sense now that they're both in their 30s there's a sense of taking 'ownership' of the 'next generation' of Royals and doing things on their own terms a bit more. Also that it's probably only now they feel able to speak of it in any detail- Harry has certainly talked about how he avoided dealing with it for so long, so perhaps now they both feel a bit more in control of their own feelings it's time for them to set things straight and continue to move on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 10:56:27 GMT
A deeply troubled person whose best place would have been away from the public eye, yet who was promoted and colluded with by the press because she sold papers. They would have been of more use if they had suggested that she sought help rather than praising her every breath. This is where it leaves a very sour taste, those who promoted her or who followed the developing psychodrama so devotedly in life and death were part of making her worse, not better. Still, it's another chance to sell more papers on the back of this.
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Post by Tibidabo on Jul 25, 2017 11:56:03 GMT
Long Buckby railway station, and the cameras being careful to avoid the station nameplates on which the "by" and part of the "B" had been painted over. Bloomin' 'eck.....that took me 5 whole seconds too long.........need my ears syringing or something.  |
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Post by kathryn on Jul 25, 2017 12:04:58 GMT
publius thats pretty much where I am with it. I dont doubt that some were genuinely affected by it and felt compelled to display their grief. I do feel there were many more who saw this and decided they should show theirs too because of a perception that they should be doing so. Ive only been compelled to place flowers at one such event, that being the Shoreham airshow disaster. I knew on a passing basis 2 of the lads who died. I was amazed to see so many expensive floral tributes from people with no direct connection and I dont fully grasp the need for public display I've seen some people opine that the collective display of grief wasn't necessarily grief for Diana - that a lot of people were funnelling their grief at the loss of their own loved ones into that public moment because we as a society are usually so bad at expressing it. So, many people feel a solidarity with William and Harry because they were mourning their own mothers through Diana. I'm not completely sure I agree with the theory, but it's an interesting idea. I know my own mum - who had lost both her parents in the preceding five years - was far more upset than me. If William and Harry feel like among all the national brouhaha and press mythologising the real person who was their Mum was lost, I can totally understand them wanting to claim her back. |
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Post by Tibidabo on Jul 25, 2017 12:20:09 GMT
I went with a friend and our toddlers to see the flowers at Kensington Palace several days afterwards, before the funeral. I wouldn't say we were grieving. We just felt part of something that day - it's hard to explain. But we were there soaking it all up - whatever 'it' was. It was just something we did on the spur of the moment and I'm glad we did. The smell of the flowers, as mentioned by alece10 above, was absolutely intoxicating. On the day of the funeral I had a hairdresser's appointment booked. I remember phoning them to see if they would be open and they told me that they had to stay open for all the weddings already planned for that day. That must have been a weird day to get married. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 12:42:51 GMT
publius thats pretty much where I am with it. I dont doubt that some were genuinely affected by it and felt compelled to display their grief. I do feel there were many more who saw this and decided they should show theirs too because of a perception that they should be doing so. Ive only been compelled to place flowers at one such event, that being the Shoreham airshow disaster. I knew on a passing basis 2 of the lads who died. I was amazed to see so many expensive floral tributes from people with no direct connection and I dont fully grasp the need for public display I've seen some people opine that the collective display of grief wasn't necessarily grief for Diana - that a lot of people were funnelling their grief at the loss of their own loved ones into that public moment because we as a society are usually so bad at expressing it. So, many people feel a solidarity with William and Harry because they were mourning their own mothers through Diana. I'm not completely sure I agree with the theory, but it's an interesting idea. I know my own mum - who had lost both her parents in the preceding five years - was far more upset than me. If William and Harry feel like among all the national brouhaha and press mythologising the real person who was their Mum was lost, I can totally understand them wanting to claim her back. By that point it was pretty much a soap opera, just one that ranged across media and used real people as its characters. As such people felt part of the narrative and projected their own lives onto it, so the emotion was an inevitable catharsis in the true dramatic sense - part identification, part release, part guilt at being an observer of it. I was staying at a friends and was travelling that day back down south and was listening to the radio most of the day. What I did find emotional was the broadcasting by the BBC. I wasn't invested in that soap,opera element but the playing of the national anthem before the news on the hour, the lack of the usual idents and trailers and such, the preparations for national mourning so smoothly kicking in, played into a sort of folk memory of a nation's consciousness. I was just about too young for it, but I imagine the death of Churchill had that same sense of national event. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 25, 2017 13:58:49 GMT
On the day of the funeral, as the coffin and procession came out of the palace there was a single plaintive cry of "DIANA!!" from someone in the otherwise silent crowd. Chilling.
The drama of the entire thing was off the scale.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 14:02:52 GMT
I am utterly fascinated how the death of the Queen will 'compare' in terms of scale, reaction etc. (that Guardian piece was fascinating a while back).
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Post by dizzieblonde on Jul 25, 2017 14:18:52 GMT
I wonder if it's because so much is written & broadcast about them & their mother it's their chance to tell the story from their perspective. I'd imagine so. And I also get a sense now that they're both in their 30s there's a sense of taking 'ownership' of the 'next generation' of Royals and doing things on their own terms a bit more. Also that it's probably only now they feel able to speak of it in any detail- Harry has certainly talked about how he avoided dealing with it for so long, so perhaps now they both feel a bit more in control of their own feelings it's time for them to set things straight and continue to move on. Talking about their ages, it's a bit of a shock to me that Will is only a year younger than his mother was when she died (he's 35 now, Diana was 36 when she died)! That's how much time has passed, and they feel comfortable talking about her life and death. It was a rather well-made program though. As to the difference in the Queen's death, well, it's the difference between mourning a long life, well-lived, of a woman who's own children are in their 60's and 70's, and the response to a sudden, shocking death of the most famous woman in the world, with dependent children. The Queen's death is long anticipated - even if she lives another 5-10 years, like her mother before her - and I'm certain the raw grief on display at Diana's funeral won't be evident at the Queen's. |
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