18,902 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 13, 2017 17:04:59 GMT
|
|
2,302 posts
|
Post by Tibidabo on Jul 13, 2017 17:11:53 GMT
If they don't address me as Ma'am I refuse to listen to their stoopid announcements.
|
|
18,902 posts
|
Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 13, 2017 17:21:02 GMT
If they don't address me as Ma'am I refuse to listen to their stoopid announcements. Dance Ma'am?  |
|
4,799 posts
|
Post by The Matthew on Jul 13, 2017 17:32:02 GMT
They should address the public as they treat us: "Oi! F***wits!"
Or if they're feeling polite: "Move along, cattle."
|
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jul 13, 2017 17:32:21 GMT
Gooooood grief. If I complain that I'm offended by this, can they go back to the way it was?
|
|
1,184 posts
|
Post by joem on Jul 13, 2017 17:37:13 GMT
I want to be addressed as Your Excellency. Until I am I refuse to travel with them.
|
|
7,571 posts
|
Post by alece10 on Jul 13, 2017 18:47:50 GMT
Hopefully their next campaign will be to stop saying "due to the adverse weather conditions" it's called rain and we get lots of it and it's not adverse!!!!
|
|
3,938 posts
|
Post by Dawnstar on Jul 13, 2017 20:00:44 GMT
Oh Lord. Doubtless they will start referring to us as "You guys", a term that seems to have become increasingly prevelant among shop assistants, waiters, cashiers, etc. in the last few years and one which I strongly object to, especially as I am female and so not a guy.
|
|
4,631 posts
|
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 13, 2017 20:16:32 GMT
Only if you have a annual zone 1-6 travelcard you get called 'Sir' or 'Gentleman', if you like an umbrella stuck up your hooter and only a few stops, nothing has changed there, it will still cost you only a fiver. Oh Lord. Doubtless they will start referring to us as "You guys", a term that seems to have become increasingly prevelant among shop assistants, waiters, cashiers, etc. in the last few years and one which I strongly object to, especially as I am female and so not a guy. Don't jest, my mum who is in her seventies, brexiter and a bit of a Small Englander who likes the pomp and circumstance, was in a Beefeater or Harvester, the poor waitress made the mistake of calling my mum and a friend that Americanism "guys"' the poor girl probably not well paid didn't know what hit her. I felt sorry for the girl, if ai was there, they are trained to say it. |
|
3,938 posts
|
Post by Dawnstar on Jul 13, 2017 20:35:16 GMT
Oh Lord. Doubtless they will start referring to us as "You guys", a term that seems to have become increasingly prevelant among shop assistants, waiters, cashiers, etc. in the last few years and one which I strongly object to, especially as I am female and so not a guy. Don't jest, my mum who is in her seventies, brexiter and a bit of a Small Englander who likes the pomp and circumstance, was in a Beefeater or Harvester, the poor waitress made the mistake of calling my mum and a friend that Americanism "guys"' the poor girl probably not well paid didn't know what hit her. I felt sorry for the girl, if ai was there, they are trained to say it. I wasn't jesting. I think it is inappropriate to refer to customers as "guys", especially if it is a younger person doing it to older people. I remember qhen I was queuing in Nationwide recently and the cashier address the two elderly women in front of me as "you guys" and it made me cringe. If companies are telling their staff to do that then they should stop doing so & teach their staff to speak to customers in a more respectful manner. When I worked in John Lewis in my gap year I remember getting told off by my manager for referring to a customer as "the woman" rather than "the lady" so goodness only know what would have been said if I had used "you guys", I'd've probably been sacked. |
|
2,452 posts
|
Post by theatremadness on Jul 13, 2017 20:41:23 GMT
I think the opening number of Legally Blonde has a lot to answer for, especially as it's comprised practically solely of women!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2017 20:45:10 GMT
As an transgender person who is going to begin transitioning soon, I agree with the majority who think this is totally stupid.
You will always manage to offend or exclude someone, no matter what you say. If you say "hi everyone" you'll upset someone who doesn't identify as a person, or who doesn't like being referred to as part of a collective group, so bending the announcements to try and include a very small minority who probably hadn't even noticed the tube announcement before you pointed it out, is idiotic.
Too often companies make huge grandiose gestures that will make a minuscule difference to a minority group that doesn't actually care, as a way of getting free publicity or showing the world how tolerant they are. If you can't cope with a friendly tube announcement that doesn't apply specifically to you (but probably does unless you're part of the 0.01% of gender non-conforming people or something like that), how are you going to face the world on a daily basis?
|
|
|
|
Post by d'James on Jul 13, 2017 20:50:49 GMT
Don't jest, my mum who is in her seventies, brexiter and a bit of a Small Englander who likes the pomp and circumstance, was in a Beefeater or Harvester, the poor waitress made the mistake of calling my mum and a friend that Americanism "guys"' the poor girl probably not well paid didn't know what hit her. I felt sorry for the girl, if ai was there, they are trained to say it. I wasn't jesting. I think it is inappropriate to refer to customers as "guys", especially if it is a younger person doing it to older people. I remember qhen I was queuing in Nationwide recently and the cashier address the two elderly women in front of me as "you guys" and it made me cringe. If companies are telling their staff to do that then they should stop doing so & teach their staff to speak to customers in a more respectful manner. When I worked in John Lewis in my gap year I remember getting told off by my manager for referring to a customer as "the woman" rather than "the lady" so goodness only know what would have been said if I had used "you guys", I'd've probably been sacked. I think it depends on the establishment. I, too, used to work for the Partnership and the rules were strict. They've definitely let a lot of them slip in recent years. |
|
4,631 posts
|
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 13, 2017 21:45:54 GMT
Don't jest, my mum who is in her seventies, brexiter and a bit of a Small Englander who likes the pomp and circumstance, was in a Beefeater or Harvester, the poor waitress made the mistake of calling my mum and a friend that Americanism "guys"' the poor girl probably not well paid didn't know what hit her. I felt sorry for the girl, if ai was there, they are trained to say it. I wasn't jesting. I think it is inappropriate to refer to customers as "guys", especially if it is a younger person doing it to older people. I remember qhen I was queuing in Nationwide recently and the cashier address the two elderly women in front of me as "you guys" and it made me cringe. If companies are telling their staff to do that then they should stop doing so & teach their staff to speak to customers in a more respectful manner. When I worked in John Lewis in my gap year I remember getting told off by my manager for referring to a customer as "the woman" rather than "the lady" so goodness only know what would have been said if I had used "you guys", I'd've probably been sacked. As we know in this country guest services are basically horrific, for example when in a coffee shop, you will have a server cleaning rather than serve the queue, supermarkets with check out lines closed despite massive queues. As an transgender person who is going to begin transitioning soon, I agree with the majority who think this is totally stupid. You will always manage to offend or exclude someone, no matter what you say. If you say "hi everyone" you'll upset someone who doesn't identify as a person, or who doesn't like being referred to as part of a collective group, so bending the announcements to try and include a very small minority who probably hadn't even noticed the tube announcement before you pointed it out, is idiotic. Too often companies make huge grandiose gestures that will make a minuscule difference to a minority group that doesn't actually care, as a way of getting free publicity or showing the world how tolerant they are. If you can't cope with a friendly tube announcement that doesn't apply specifically to you (but probably does unless you're part of the 0.01% of gender non-conforming people or something like that), how are you going to face the world on a daily basis? Glad you mentioned this and firstly I want to congratulate you on the journey you are about to go through and it is not an easy decision, as I have a colleague who has gone through the same task, so well done. As I said I have a co-worker who is going through gender reassignment process, so for me using the collective noun "guys" is very appropriate on emails. Gone are the days 'dear sir/madam' or Mr........... or Mrs/MissMs........... |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 18:04:02 GMT
I feel compelled to confess I do use 'Guys' actually more as a gender-neutral catch all. Particularly while teaching- it's better than a possibly condescending sounding 'Miss' or 'Girls' or whatever in my book. It's been a few years since I worked in customer service/retail but it's frankly a f***ing minefield. On one hand someone kicks off for 'Guys' on the other a person takes offence at 'Ma'm' or 'Madam' or 'Miss' Frankly the only thing you can be certain to get away with is 'Sir' and obviously you can't use that on everyone  And while I applaude TFL for trying, and it clearly comes from a good place, it did strike me as a little overkill- I'm not sure anyone has ever actually listened to any annoucment aside from the key word 'delay'? |
|
4,631 posts
|
Post by Phantom of London on Jul 14, 2017 21:51:37 GMT
the poor waitress made the mistake of calling my mum and a friend that Americanism "guys"' the poor girl probably not well paid didn't know what hit her. I Hope your mum kicked off AFTER the meal... how kitchen staff get their revenge otherwise, she probably wouldn't want to know. I'm always very careful in food service places, myself... I don't see what's wrong with LT just calling us "customers." So are you saying it wasn't Creme Frais on the Tomato Soup?  |
|
4,458 posts
|
Post by poster J on Jul 15, 2017 12:21:25 GMT
I have to admit I can't remember hearing an announcement that started with "Ladies and Gentlemen" - it's usually the likes of "This is an announcement from the control room at Leicester Square station..."
And the announcers on platforms usually just say "The train now approaching is to [wherever you don't want it to be going]...allow customers off the train before boarding..."
So I'm slightly confused as to which announcements will be changed (and also think it's a bit unnecessary anyway).
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 13:15:44 GMT
As an transgender person who is going to begin transitioning soon, I agree with the majority who think this is totally stupid. You will always manage to offend or exclude someone, no matter what you say. If you say "hi everyone" you'll upset someone who doesn't identify as a person, or who doesn't like being referred to as part of a collective group, so bending the announcements to try and include a very small minority who probably hadn't even noticed the tube announcement before you pointed it out, is idiotic. Too often companies make huge grandiose gestures that will make a minuscule difference to a minority group that doesn't actually care, as a way of getting free publicity or showing the world how tolerant they are. If you can't cope with a friendly tube announcement that doesn't apply specifically to you (but probably does unless you're part of the 0.01% of gender non-conforming people or something like that), how are you going to face the world on a daily basis? Glad you mentioned this and firstly I want to congratulate you on the journey you are about to go through and it is not an easy decision, as I have a colleague who has gone through the same task, so well done. As I said I have a co-worker who is going through gender reassignment process, so for me using the collective noun "guys" is very appropriate on emails. Gone are the days 'dear sir/madam' or Mr........... or Mrs/MissMs........... Thank you  It's definitely gonna be a struggle but I'm fortunate to be thin in the face and young, so statistically speaking the results are likely to be better so I'm optimistic. I understand people don't like the word "guys" for specific reasons, but the language has changed to the point where that is an acceptable thing to call a mixed-gender group, I certainly don't feel personally attacked if someone says "hey guys" in my presence. It's the same way that words like "mankind" and "humanity" aren't designed to exclude women, it's just English has evolved slightly so that "man" is now a way to refer to half the species as opposed to all of it. Nobody seeks to offend so it's not reasonable for everyone to keep taking offence. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 13:17:07 GMT
Frankly the only thing you can be certain to get away with is 'Sir' and obviously you can't use that on everyone I mean you can use that on everyone, but not everybody seems to appreciate it for some reason |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 13:18:34 GMT
Frankly the only thing you can be certain to get away with is 'Sir' and obviously you can't use that on everyone I mean you can use that on everyone, but not everybody seems to appreciate it for some reason haha I mean I can also techically use 'Ladies' on everyone but I'm pretty sure that would go down just as well |
|
5,599 posts
|
Post by lynette on Jul 15, 2017 23:25:08 GMT
You will have to tell me if I can't use 'guys' anymore. My social circle is somewhat limited. But for the record my grandsons call me and the other grandma 'guys' when they are bossing us about.
I remember when Ms became more common. I heard on the radio that it was quite an old invention but gained popularity more recently. I don't like it because it sounds odd. But whatever floats your boat.
I always thought that Ladies and Gentlemen was an attempt to be polite and egalitarian because in the old days some women and men were not ladies or gentlemen. If you can't put something at the front of what you want to say as in L&G, then you have to use the indirect way of addressing the punters as in 'we would request customers not to sit on the lines' etc. Instead of 'L&G, please do not sit on the lines'
I wonder if this makes a difference to health and safety.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 2:10:33 GMT
Most announcements at all stations usually say "passengers" which covers Man, Women, LGBT - everyone regardless of gender, race, sexual preference.
Referring to groups with ladies in as "guys" I don't agree with, it would be like saying "girls" to a group with men in.
I had a manager who called everyone "mate" once and our IT Director didn't like being called Dude by one of the IT techies.
|
|
4,361 posts
|
Post by shady23 on Jul 16, 2017 7:59:45 GMT
Frankly the only thing you can be certain to get away with is 'Sir' and obviously you can't use that on everyone I mean you can use that on everyone, but not everybody seems to appreciate it for some reason I've been called sir lots of times in shops. I'm not sure if it's workers from a specific country but the reaction was very much "  ??". |
|
|
|
Post by d'James on Jul 16, 2017 9:50:20 GMT
Most announcements at all stations usually say "passengers" which covers Man, Women, LGBT - everyone regardless of gender, race, sexual preference. Referring to groups with ladies in as "guys" I don't agree with, it would be like saying "girls" to a group with men in. I had a manager who called everyone "mate" once and our IT Director didn't like being called Dude by one of the IT techies. I hate 'mate.' 'Girls' and 'guys' aren't really comparable though anymore. I used have a teacher who called us 'men.' 'Alright men, let's do this now.' (We were all male for those wondering.) |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:23:44 GMT
According to a friend's recent Twitter poll, "lads" can be used gender-neutrally, though "lad" still refers to a very particular sort of masculine.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:58:41 GMT
I do tend to use 'lads' in a jokey-catch all manner on twitter etc but probably wouldn't use it in person (except to an actual group of mates...wait am I allowed to say mates now?!)
I think the point is though it's all very group/situation dependant. I've never worked at John Lewis (other posh department stores are available) but I'm sure the clientele there DOES feel differently about modes of address to say...a coffee shop populated by mainly 20-somethings. So saying to the coffee shop queue 'hey guys what can I get you?' is less likely to provoke outrage there.
FWIW I find 'Ladies and Gentleman' a stuffy and outdated sounding phrase personally, I often find myself looking around wondering who the lady is in that cos it probably ain't me.
Many theatres use it still though...will that go the way of TFL? (I've no objection to trying to be gender neutral and inclusive if that's what people have said they want I'm just not sure many people actually noticed before on the Underground!)
|
|
|
|
Post by Honoured Guest on Jul 16, 2017 12:18:21 GMT
Peeps.
|
|
|
|
Post by Honoured Guest on Jul 16, 2017 12:18:59 GMT
Werin.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 12:22:48 GMT
I have a friend who uses that constantly. It's improved by the fact I reccently discovered a Peeps is a marshmallow sweet thing in America. So now I imagine him just eating those every time he says it. |
|
|
|
Post by d'James on Jul 16, 2017 12:23:59 GMT
I like 'folks.' Hello 'folks.'
|
|
It's definitely gonna be a struggle but I'm fortunate to be thin in the face and young, so statistically speaking the results are likely to be better so I'm optimistic.
??". 