4,988 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 27, 2017 14:52:06 GMT
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4,988 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 27, 2017 16:13:16 GMT
I'm all for schools and hospitals but I worry that the Murdock's and Farage's of the world want to have a bland environment of chain stores and sky to so we can't be enlightened
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 16:24:55 GMT
If it comes to a choice between the arts, and old folk getting care / young folk an education and the rest of us hospitals and police, I'm afraid even I come down on the side of trimming arts spending That's a false dichotomy. There are a great many leavers the state could use if it so wished to increase funding for the arts.
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721 posts
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Post by hulmeman on Jun 27, 2017 16:30:05 GMT
It's staggering that in these days of cut backs everywhere, not just the arts and public services, the government can find £1 BILLION pounds to save their necks in parliament.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 16:30:14 GMT
I'd take hospitals and social care over the arts, but what about Trident? Hell, what about parliament's booze bill? There are things that can be cut back on without it being physical health vs emotional health, but it feels like we're being slowly manipulated into giving up on the arts by having threats against hospitals waved in our faces.
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1,127 posts
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Jun 27, 2017 16:35:20 GMT
Arts funding makes money. Every pound invested in the arts makes something like £4 back. Arts cuts cost money, they don't save money. Cutting arts funding doesn't mean more funding is freed up to suddenly build hospitals and things like that. Anyway the government fritters literally billions of pounds on waste, mismanagement and cronyism (not to mention unnecessary or dubious big ticket projects) and there's never any suggestion of trying to cut corners there. But a little bit of money to the arts, or a disabled person's extra tenner a week? Snatch that back.
Awfully bad timing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 17:05:18 GMT
Back to the original topic of this thread:-
The RSC, NT and Royal Opera House and Southbank Centre were invited to apply for a grant reduced by three to four per cent so that the money saved could be reinvested in bringing new Organisations into the National Portfolio, to promote diversity. There has been no cut in Arts Council England spending, so all the above talk of hospitals and schools is irrelevant here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 17:08:20 GMT
Also re: arts council specifically only the portfolio comes out of government money all the other grants are lottery funded.
So as less people by tickets less there is in the other pot.
Also Scotland Wales and NI come out of their own (smaller) Arts Council and lottery pots. (The way the lottery allocation is made is nerdily interesting, government spending erm less so)
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1,119 posts
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Post by martin1965 on Jun 27, 2017 17:12:08 GMT
Back to the original topic of this thread:- The RSC, NT and Royal Opera House and Southbank Centre were invited to apply for a grant reduced by three to four per cent so that the money saved could be reinvested in bringing new Organisations into the National Portfolio, to promote diversity. There has been no cut in Arts Council England spending, so all the above talk of hospitals and schools is irrelevant here. Oh my god! Im actually agreeing with you HG😄
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 19:00:04 GMT
Also re: arts council specifically only the portfolio comes out of government money all the other grants are lottery funded. This has changed now. Some NPO funding is from Grant In Aid and some is from Lottery. There's a column on ACE's spreadsheet which shows which is which.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 19:33:19 GMT
(This post has intentionally been left blank)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 22:55:45 GMT
Also re: arts council specifically only the portfolio comes out of government money all the other grants are lottery funded. This has changed now. Some NPO funding is from Grant In Aid and some is from Lottery. There's a column on ACE's spreadsheet which shows which is which. I don't know the exact ins and outs as re differ across all the Arts councils.... But thanks for mansplaining my ACTUAL job to me. I appreciate it.
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423 posts
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Post by schuttep on Jun 28, 2017 9:28:01 GMT
Arts funding makes money. Every pound invested in the arts makes something like £4 back. I agree, but the returns don't go back directly into state funds. VAT does, so if the profit from Arts Council grants equates to more tickets sold, or more employment (bigger income tax takes) then I agree there is a benefit to the government, and cost cutting arts funding is stupid. The National Theatre must have huge reserves from transfers, NT Live, and ticket prices that aren't much less now than the West End. So I'm assuming they can cope with a small cut. But the NT is supposed to be doing classics that wouldn't otherwise be commercial. Instead over 2/3 of its current output is new writing. I'm not saying they shouldn't be doing any new writing but there are several other theatres that do it almost exclusively. So I really think the NT should re-direct its reduced funding to more classics.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 12:13:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 13:25:35 GMT
Ed Hall is such a whiner, honestly. Remember how Propeller didn't do any new productions for a number of years, reviving previous works, and he was so shocked and appalled to lose their funding that he shut the whole thing down for good? Yeah, it sucks to lose your funding, but you do have to be willing to earn it. Next thing you know he'll be taking his bat home and shuttering the Hampstead. Other theatres and companies have faced greater cuts with extreme grace, his sulking is just embarrassing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 13:40:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 14:22:22 GMT
From the Hampstead Theatre statement, it appears that they have no clue why they have, almost uniquely, received a significant NPO funding reduction.
Lyn Gardner pointed out in yesterday's Guardian that Hampstead Theatre has a poor record in terms of diversity, and that diversity has been supported in yesterday's NPO announcement.
Needless to say, in Hampstead Theatre's four-paragraph, self-justifying response there is absolutely no mention of, or even reference to, diversity.
When will the penny drop?
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5,707 posts
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Post by lynette on Jun 28, 2017 22:02:12 GMT
It's ok, we can all climb aboard the HS2 to get to the theatres oop north. Seriously, I too agree we need hospitals and schools etc above the arts just now but the pot isn't being transferred but redistributed, so RSC gets less and a smaller organisation gets some or more than it had before. I think it is a shame to penalise Hampstead which is doing ok at the moment and promising with new writing and good audiences. I don't know exactly what they mean by diversity though I have my suspicions; if a lack of it is what has affected Hampstead then I am very disappointed. In my experience, Hampstead serves the community around it and brings in from further afield. Incidentally, I went to the Arcola recently and the audience looked pretty much the same as it does at Hampstead, at the NT and the RSC but I expect they can claim diversity because hey, I was a punter.
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7,183 posts
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Post by Jon on Jun 28, 2017 22:26:27 GMT
Ed Hall is such a whiner, honestly. Remember how Propeller didn't do any new productions for a number of years, reviving previous works, and he was so shocked and appalled to lose their funding that he shut the whole thing down for good? Yeah, it sucks to lose your funding, but you do have to be willing to earn it. Next thing you know he'll be taking his bat home and shuttering the Hampstead. Other theatres and companies have faced greater cuts with extreme grace, his sulking is just embarrassing. Hampstead are still getting more money than both the Almeida and the Donmar as well. He should be grateful not sulking about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 22:53:44 GMT
All the applicants to ACE for NPO status are fully aware of the strategies concerning diversity, and they are required to supply detailed information in their application and are subject to regular detailed monitoring. It's not only diversity of audience but also within the staff and Board of each organisation, and all the other theatre-makers who they work with. If an applicant chooses to ignore the priorities of ACE, they should not expect to be rewarded! The published response by Hampstead Theatre seems to imply a sene of entitlement and working to their own priorities without reference to those of the funding body.
Another factor which seems glaringly obvious to me, although I admit that I don't know if it influenced the funding decision, is that virtually every other NPO producing venue now routinely co-produces with other venues and/or with non-building-based thaetre companies. This shares production costs and risk, and so saves money, and it also helps to open up the organisation to the rest of the world. However, Hampstead's main theatre produces a stream of its own productions, all running for a scheduled few weeks before expiring. This is an expensive production model which almost everyone else has moved away from. In Hampstead's response, there's no suggestion of considering how to reduce costs like every other theatre has done - compare with the Orange Tree's response to withdrawn funding - but a blind desire to carry on regardless.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 7:45:32 GMT
Interestingly my 'timehop' app has offered up that a year ago I got into a spat with a "friend" who was having a rant about the cost of art in hospitals (the local rag were making a fuss over a project happening) nothing I could say could convince her that the art project was a) not taking cancer drugs directly out of the hands of patients b) that the artists were not 'overpaid' (this person it turned out didn't understand the concept of a pro-rata salary either which didn't help!!)
All to say, that there's never enough money to go around (unless it's buying votes obviously) but as others have said above it's about WHERE you find the money from. ie, a few less bottles of vintage wine and we could fund a few more theatres AND hospitals.
Finally, as someone who works in this field, yes there really are some bratty theatres/artists about when it comes to being entitled to the money, and it's also funny that those companies who don't get the big bucks manage to do the same/if not better work for half the price...bit like MPs and expenses now I think about it....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 8:06:53 GMT
Oh and co-producing is actually a very clever fundraising 'trick' in that it doubles the availability of grants. For example you can't have 2 active grants from the same funder in many cases BUT if two companies on the same project apply for different aspects of the project then boom doubled your intake (fundraising is a bit of a jigsaw puzzle so it obviously doesn't always work out, but the co-producing opens up more chances/rolls of the dice and also offers more of a safety net as well)
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