2,302 posts
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Post by Tibidabo on Jun 16, 2017 9:41:05 GMT
My thoughts. This is so unimaginable and unbearable to watch, from the partially sighted elderly man shown all morning on GMB, stuck in his flat (I spent the day googling until I found out he'd been rescued at about 3PM) to the faces of those indescribably brave firefighters to everyone turning up with nappies/phone chargers/pyjamas etc. etc.
I have found my own personal favourite touching story in all this. A young 16 year old girl called Ines Alves who escaped with her family, unscathed, from the 13th floor and proceeded to watch her home go up in flames. On Wednesday morning she went into school and sat her chemistry GCSE because she wanted to take chemistry A level and therefore needed a good pass at GCSE. The clip of her speaking to a London Tonight reporter should be shown to all students just before the exam season with the title "No Excuses." I hope her school lets her take chemistry A level, whatever her result, and I hope she goes on to become a brilliant chemist and invent some new inflammable cladding........
....or that she becomes a gardener or an artist or a nanny......what does it matter?
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4,156 posts
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Post by kathryn on Jun 16, 2017 10:25:08 GMT
Hopefully all the surviving residents are permanently resettled in the area. I believe there will a LOT of buck passing among TPTB. The Daily Mail has doxxed the man whose fridge caught fire and published his photograph, ethnicity and job. Disgraceful of them. Shades of The Sun post-Hillsborough. Scum. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 10:58:04 GMT
The Daily Mail has doxxed the man whose fridge caught fire and published his photograph, ethnicity and job. Disgraceful of them. Shades of The Sun post-Hillsborough. Scum. Just a wild guess here, but if the Daily Mail is mentioning his ethnicity would I be correct in thinking that "white British" isn't an option? |
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Post by vdcni on Jun 16, 2017 11:33:00 GMT
The Daily Mail are also doing this
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 12:05:03 GMT
The Daily Mail and its readers make Donald Trump's Twitter account look sane, balanced, calm and fair.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 13:49:10 GMT
The event is so tragic due to unnecessary suffering and loss of human life in such a distressing way
However the media and residents need to direct blame must be taken into context
It is a sad example of how overcrowding and over demand for resources leads to poor quality and safety
In many ways it is reflective of all public services in this country
Generally not very good
The NHS, Police, public libraries etc. are all
And blaming others will not help anyone
Theresa May must be forced into showing humanity for a media circus and putting on a show
Otherwise it means she does not care
All the recent upsetting events we have experienced in recent weeks have been made so much worse by the media we have in the UK
They really are the sh*ts
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4,988 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jun 16, 2017 14:34:32 GMT
Interesting that the Queen visits and speaks to the survivors but TM can't due to security fears
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 14:58:25 GMT
Interesting that the Queen visits and speaks to the survivors but TM can't due to security fears The queen spends plenty of our money on her houses And it's her job to be a public figure It's the least she can do She doesn't do anything else They have money to spend on Houses of Parliament And doing up royal apartments But not for sprinkler systems The austerity we hear about Does not apply to all |
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950 posts
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Post by vdcni on Jun 16, 2017 14:59:29 GMT
The event is so tragic due to unnecessary suffering and loss of human life in such a distressing way However the media and residents need to direct blame must be taken into context It is a sad example of how overcrowding and over demand for resources leads to poor quality and safety In many ways it is reflective of all public services in this country Generally not very good The NHS, Police, public libraries etc. are all And blaming others will not help anyone Theresa May must be forced into showing humanity for a media circus and putting on a show Otherwise it means she does not care All the recent upsetting events we have experienced in recent weeks have been made so much worse by the media we have in the UK They really are the sh*ts At times like this people are looking for reassurance - Theresa May chose not to go and meet residents. I don't think that means she doesn't care but hell I can completely understand why people are angry about that. Many others have made that trip. And the media who have really made things worse in the last few months and years aren't the ones criticising her - the likes of the Mail and Sun are too busy criticising Corbyn for 'politicising' things and are the very ones who have supported all the policies and attitudes which may have led to this disaster. At the end of the day though the media doesn't make those decisions - the questions are rightly being directed at the people that do. Overcrowding and demand for resource doesn't automatically mean that the cheapest materials should be used or that regulations should be cut - they are choices we have made in this country and aren't the case everywhere. Yes it's dangerous to rush to judgement before we know all the facts but at the moment from what we do know this doesn't look like just a horrible accident but something that could have been prevented if different decisions were to be made. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 15:02:51 GMT
The event is so tragic due to unnecessary suffering and loss of human life in such a distressing way However the media and residents need to direct blame must be taken into context It is a sad example of how overcrowding and over demand for resources leads to poor quality and safety In many ways it is reflective of all public services in this country Generally not very good The NHS, Police, public libraries etc. are all And blaming others will not help anyone Theresa May must be forced into showing humanity for a media circus and putting on a show Otherwise it means she does not care All the recent upsetting events we have experienced in recent weeks have been made so much worse by the media we have in the UK They really are the sh*ts At times like this people are looking for reassurance - Theresa May chose not to go and meet residents. I don't think that means she doesn't care but hell I can completely understand why people are angry about that. Many others have made that trip. And the media who have really made things worse in the last few months and years aren't the ones criticising her - the likes of the Mail and Sun are too busy criticising Corbyn for 'politicising' things and are the very ones who have supported all the policies and attitudes which may have led to this disaster. At the end of the day though the media doesn't make those decisions - the questions are rightly being directed at the people that do. Overcrowding and demand for resource doesn't automatically mean that the cheapest materials should be used or that regulations should be cut - they are choices we have made in this country and aren't the case everywhere. Yes it's dangerous to rush to judgement before we know all the facts but at the moment from what we do know this doesn't look like just a horrible accident but something that could have been prevented if different decisions were to be made. Ditto all NHS scandals Terror attacks Abuse scandals They could all have been prevented These are the prices we pay For a consumerist society Who can't take any responsibility for anything With mouths wide open And empty pockets |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 15:35:43 GMT
Interesting that the Queen visits and speaks to the survivors but TM can't due to security fears I'm assuming the "security fears" are "the residents on the ground are going to be EXTREMELY CROSS right in Theresa May's face", so although I disagree with her continued decision to avoid speaking to non-politicians, I can see where she's coming from. To be honest, they don't need Theresa May sticking her beak in down there. The woman never met a situation she couldn't make worse; she's almost better off staying away and letting everyone simmer from afar. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 15:39:11 GMT
Interesting that the Queen visits and speaks to the survivors but TM can't due to security fears I'm assuming the "security fears" are "the residents on the ground are going to be EXTREMELY CROSS right in Theresa May's face", so although I disagree with her continued decision to avoid speaking to non-politicians, I can see where she's coming from. To be honest, they don't need Theresa May sticking her beak in down there. The woman never met a situation she couldn't make worse; she's almost better off staying away and letting everyone simmer from afar. Sadiq Khan had a bad time It's a wonder the government Aren't blamed for the weather These days |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 15:47:29 GMT
Sadiq Khan may not have been met with raptures, but you can't seriously think Theresa May wouldn't have been met with an *even more* hostile reception.
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950 posts
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Post by vdcni on Jun 16, 2017 16:04:39 GMT
And so what. Why shouldn't she be heckled. If that's the worst she gets in a week where so many people have died then she's still a very lucky woman.
She chose to go into politics and that means taking responsibility sometimes and facing hard days.
Many of the problems we have these days stem from their being a governing and economic elite who are insulated from the world's problems and only act in their own interest. Why shouldn't they have to face up to harsh realities sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:17:54 GMT
I don't understand how anyone can claim that politics is separate to ths tragedy. By the very fact that a borough council is responsible for the building (albeit through a quango) it is automatically political. I have no doubt that politicians of various stripes will come out of this badly but power must be brought to book. Always.
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Post by theatremadness on Jun 16, 2017 16:24:10 GMT
Quite an angry protest now taking place outisde Kensington & Chelsea Town Hall. They managed to get in to the building but have since now left and are now protesting outside. I believe it was planned as a peaceful protest but it's certainly not anymore. Extraordinary footage on the BBC News channel, but it's a bit of a worry that some may turn this into a violent protest, completely taking away from the very important reason they are all there. Not much being said in reply from the Council themselves.
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 16, 2017 16:27:07 GMT
The Daily Mail and its readers make Donald Trump's Twitter account look sane, balanced, calm and fair. Apparently i hear on the wireless, according to the Daily Mail it is the 'Greens' fault, so if you are one of these people who like to pull on a pair of walking boots and hug a tree, it's all your fault. I didn't realise that being 'Green' means you would be so anti fire - resistant tiles being use!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 16:38:38 GMT
I don't understand how anyone can claim that politics is separate to ths tragedy. By the very fact that a borough council is responsible for the building (albeit through a quango) it is automatically political. I have no doubt that politicians of various stripes will come out of this badly but power must be brought to book. Always. And where do individuals take responsibility? If my house burnt down Who would I go and blame? What about the person who caused the fire Do they not need take responsibility for checking their appliances? The government cannot do everything |
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 16, 2017 16:48:01 GMT
And so what. Why shouldn't she be heckled. If that's the worst she gets in a week where so many people have died then she's still a very lucky woman. She chose to go into politics and that means taking responsibility sometimes and facing hard days. Many of the problems we have these days stem from their being a governing and economic elite who are insulated from the world's problems and only act in their own interest. Why shouldn't they have to face up to harsh realities sometimes. Starting to feel sorry for May now. What a month she has had. The worst election campaign ever losing power and having to ask the DUP if they'll join you to form a government. You're own party hates you and will out her when the time is right (I'm hearing September before the universities go back so that the students can't regroup). Brexit negotiations about to start. But more importantly had to deal with Manchester, London Bridge and now the fire in West London as the leader of the country. Poor lady must be broken. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Jun 16, 2017 16:50:48 GMT
The event is so tragic due to unnecessary suffering and loss of human life in such a distressing way However the media and residents need to direct blame must be taken into context It is a sad example of how overcrowding and over demand for resources leads to poor quality and safety In many ways it is reflective of all public services in this country Generally not very good The NHS, Police, public libraries etc. are all And blaming others will not help anyone Theresa May must be forced into showing humanity for a media circus and putting on a show Otherwise it means she does not care All the recent upsetting events we have experienced in recent weeks have been made so much worse by the media we have in the UK They really are the sh*ts Not strictly true. The government have had warnings with other flat fires, they just didn't heed any of the warnings, the ex housing minister Gavin Barwell needs top speak, that man must of had the week from hell. The organisation I work for had a massive fire where 31 innocent souls perished. it was an absolute game changer how we do things and changed our safety philosophy, it is very unlikely another King's Cross fire will happen again, Desmond Fennel QC completed a thorough investigation into Kings Cross the Sub Service Railway Act made over 100 recommendations, London Transport had no option but to accept every one. some of the measure we have taken, which have cost billions; - State of the art fire detection, sprinkler and alarm systems.
- Excellent Housekeeping on stations and thorough cleaning of tunnels.
- Comprehensive Stations Plans for the Fire Brigade outside every station.
- Any report of smoke or fire alarm going off, will be investigated by LFB.
- Ban on Smoking on stations.
- Phasing out wooden escalators.
- Fire training for all staff.
- Compartmentalisation between machine rooms and public areas, that will hold a fire for 1 hour.
- If contractors want to store any equipment on stations or tunnels, they need to apply for a storage licence.
- Limiting certain materials from use and prohibition on others.
- If you have to isolate fire equipment, such as alarms or sprinklers, you need to apply for a permit.
- If 'Hot Works' takes place a fire watchmen is appointed and must sat on site for 1 hour after work has been completed.
However should Kings Cross happened? Before this happened similar fires occurred at Oxford Circus and Goodge Street, where no one got killed, so leave it for you to draw your own conclusions
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 17:10:28 GMT
I don't understand how anyone can claim that politics is separate to ths tragedy. By the very fact that a borough council is responsible for the building (albeit through a quango) it is automatically political. I have no doubt that politicians of various stripes will come out of this badly but power must be brought to book. Always. And where do individuals take responsibility? If my house burnt down Who would I go and blame? What about the person who caused the fire Do they not need take responsibility for checking their appliances? The government cannot do everything The answer, as always, is 'it depends'. Did someone sell you a faulty appliance? Was it checked and passed as being fine recently? Was the fault caused by the electrics leading to it? etc. etc. Here, the extent and the nature of this tragedy cannot and must not be blamed on a faulty fridge. You have to get to the level of those who made decisions about the building. In this instance we are already aware that those who made decisions about the cladding bear a great responsibilty. Now we don't yet know where that will be found, it could be local government, maybe partly national government, within the quango or elsewhere, but there are decisions that have been made collectively that have caused the nature and extent of this event. There are many people who are in control of others who try and escape their responsibilities, they must not be allowed to do so and our laws must not allow them to escape either. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 17:36:08 GMT
Too many people
And nowhere to put them
Living crammed like people do
Ultimately
People need to think for themselves
A bit longer term
And we need to ask what levels and numbers of population
Are sustainable and we can provide for to have a good quality of life
This only adds to the housing debate
And where councils house people
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Jun 16, 2017 19:41:31 GMT
Too many people And nowhere to put them Living crammed like people do Ultimately People need to think for themselves A bit longer term And we need to ask what levels and numbers of population Are sustainable and we can provide for to have a good quality of life This only adds to the housing debate And where councils house people What's the tune? |
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Post by joem on Jun 16, 2017 22:11:32 GMT
First of all, a proper investigation to get all the facts. Then direct the anger at whoever, if anyone, is responsible. I noted by the way that 2 bedroom flats were being rented out at £1,600 a month, I'm not sure how that - or the description of the lives and achievements some of the unfortunate people who have died - tallies with the narrative of poverty which some sections of the media are portraying.
I fear that whilst we wait for answers a frenzy is being whipped up which will result in riots and looting. More fires and more deaths which will be blamed on the Grenfell Tower fire and deaths in a vicious and unjustifiable cycle.
The internet generation needs to learn that before opening its mouth it should have an informed idea of what it's going to say.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 22:48:34 GMT
The internet generation needs to learn that before opening its mouth it should have an informed idea of what it's going to say. Well, we live in hope... |
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