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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 10:29:31 GMT
Easy enough topic, we all have our thoughts on this kind of topic. I'll start with my underrated: Frank Wildhorn. He is consistantly bashed and his musicals of late have rarely run long on Broadway, but Bonnie & Clyde is one of my favourite socres, and Wonderland is definately a guilty pleasure of mine. He also wrote, in my opinion, one of the best male musical theatre solos "This Is the Moment" in his musical Jekyll & Hyde. I'll have to get back to you on overrated haha. But what about you guys? Remember, just personal opinions.  |
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Post by zak97 on May 15, 2017 11:11:14 GMT
Gary Barlow - personally love the score to The Girls. Now I'm going to go and hide....
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 11:21:57 GMT
I think Sondheim is very overrated as a composer. Brilliant lyricist, average composer at best.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 11:22:26 GMT
Gary Barlow - personally love the score to The Girls. Now I'm going to go and hide.... I love Finding Neverland. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on May 15, 2017 11:37:40 GMT
The best - Sondheim
I wish would write a lot more - Adam Guettel
Don't like - Wildhorn
Lloyd Webber: Plagiarism aside he is a very good song writer but to me his musicals do not form a cohesive whole.
interesting link
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 11:54:00 GMT
I think Adam Guettel counts as underrated, though considering his musical theatre output seems to be hovering permanently around three, I suppose one could make the argument that he is overrated considering how much more he could have done by now if it weren't for his personal issues (and William Golding).
Frank Wildhorn writes great songs but is always stymied by terrible books. Some of the lyrics he uses are horrendous, but then so are some of Tim Rice's.
Pro-Sondheim over here.
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Post by martin1965 on May 15, 2017 20:14:06 GMT
Sondheim is obvs the best.
Overrated ALW
Underrated Tesori
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Post by benny20 on May 15, 2017 21:12:33 GMT
Underrated.....Alan Menken
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 21:31:47 GMT
Overrated - Lloyd Webber
Underrated - Lloyd Webber
It only depends on where you are standing.
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Post by crabtree on May 15, 2017 21:53:21 GMT
Overrated - Jerry Herman, and underrated, Howard Goodall.
Re- Frank Wildhorn, he does write good numbers but heck the drama and plotting in those musicals leave a lot to be desired
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Post by duncan on May 16, 2017 9:34:44 GMT
Overrated - Lloyd Webber Underrated - Lloyd Webber
I agree with this, the shows that made his name (and fortune) aren't anywhere near as interesting musiclly as The Woman in White and Love Never Does but because of other issues with those shows they never get mentioned in relation to how good ALW actually is.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 9:49:07 GMT
Overrated - Lloyd Webber Underrated - Lloyd Webber It only depends on where you are standing. I agree, Phantom of the Opera, School of Rock and Cats are some of my favourite scores, and I thought he did respectable work on The Wizard of Oz, but Stephen Ward was, in my opinion, f**king awful bar maybe three songs. Possibly the worst show I have ever seen and the score didn't help. A major disappointment. |
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Post by theatre on May 16, 2017 22:16:19 GMT
Overrated - Stephen Schwartz *ducks for cover*
I just don't find any of his songs that memorable or impressive, with the obvious exception of defying gravity (but the cynical part of me wonders if even that's just because of its exposure)
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Post by nick on May 17, 2017 14:21:39 GMT
Overrated - Stephen Schwartz *ducks for cover* I just don't find any of his songs that memorable or impressive, with the obvious exception of defying gravity (but the cynical part of me wonders if even that's just because of its exposure) What about Godspell? My favourite. Some good stuff in Pippin as well. Agree about Wicked though. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 16:54:10 GMT
Overrated - Stephen Schwartz *ducks for cover* I just don't find any of his songs that memorable or impressive, with the obvious exception of defying gravity (but the cynical part of me wonders if even that's just because of its exposure) I like virtually all of the songs from Wicked. But from his other shows I literally only like Corner of the Sky from Pippin. |
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Post by nick on May 17, 2017 17:36:28 GMT
Overrated - Stephen Schwartz *ducks for cover* I just don't find any of his songs that memorable or impressive, with the obvious exception of defying gravity (but the cynical part of me wonders if even that's just because of its exposure) I like virtually all of the songs from Wicked. But from his other shows I literally only like Corner of the Sky from Pippin. Horses for courses. I went to see Menier's Pippin 3 times getting half price tickets because it was so unpopular with most people. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 17:39:43 GMT
Overrated - Stephen Schwartz *ducks for cover* I just don't find any of his songs that memorable or impressive, with the obvious exception of defying gravity (but the cynical part of me wonders if even that's just because of its exposure) What about Godspell? My favourite. Some good stuff in Pippin as well. Agree about Wicked though. The Baker's Wife is a beautiful score. |
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Post by nick on May 17, 2017 18:18:52 GMT
What about Godspell? My favourite. Some good stuff in Pippin as well. Agree about Wicked though. The Baker's Wife is a beautiful score. This thread has inspired me to seek out both The Baker's Wife and The Magic Show. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 18:37:40 GMT
The Baker's Wife is a beautiful score. This thread has inspired me to seek out both The Baker's Wife and The Magic Show. Find the London version with Alun Armstrong, better orchestrations and more professionally done than the hasty job on the pre Broadway version that never reached its destination. Here's Liz Callaway in concert from her Youtube channel with the wonderful 'Meadowlark' |
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Post by Phantom of London on May 17, 2017 18:52:13 GMT
The best - Sondheim I wish would write a lot more - Adam Guettel Don't like - Wildhorn Lloyd Webber: Plagiarism aside he is a very good song writer but to me his musicals do not form a cohesive whole. interesting link Come on - that is all from bitter Sondheim fans, mainly in the U.S. that cannot except that Sondheim didn't have the success Webber did and he completely overshadowed him, when both were very prolific. You cannot expect a composer to listen to every single scrap of music, then commit it to memory, just in case they don't end up charged with copyright theft. Webber has written many musicals in different styles, with varying styles of music. if Webber was American they would exhalt him. |
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Post by Dawnstar on May 17, 2017 19:04:10 GMT
The Baker's Wife is a beautiful score. Schwartz wrote The Baker's Wife? I had totally forgotten that, and I've seen The Baker's Wife! |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 20:24:49 GMT
The best - Sondheim I wish would write a lot more - Adam Guettel Don't like - Wildhorn Lloyd Webber: Plagiarism aside he is a very good song writer but to me his musicals do not form a cohesive whole. interesting link Come on - that is all from bitter Sondheim fans, mainly in the U.S. that cannot except that Sondheim didn't have the success Webber did and he completely overshadowed him, when both were very prolific. You cannot expect a composer to listen to every single scrap of music, then commit it to memory, just in case they don't end up charged with copyright theft. Webber has written many musicals in different styles, with varying styles of music. if Webber was American they would exhalt him. AMEN! The "Webber is a plagiarist" videos are always so far-fetched. For example the similarity with the Pink Floyd song isn't so strange because it's just literally a matter of moving up and down the scale. I was just just messing around on my piano one day and I accidentally played the Phantom theme, just because it's so damn easy. Also, when they sing the word "Agony" in into the woods, I think it sounds very similar to when they sing "memory" in Cats. So did Sondheim plagiarize Webber? |
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Post by Someone in a tree on May 18, 2017 13:04:08 GMT
The best - Sondheim I wish would write a lot more - Adam Guettel Don't like - Wildhorn Lloyd Webber: Plagiarism aside he is a very good song writer but to me his musicals do not form a cohesive whole. interesting link Come on - that is all from bitter Sondheim fans, mainly in the U.S. that cannot except that Sondheim didn't have the success Webber did and he completely overshadowed him, when both were very prolific. You cannot expect a composer to listen to every single scrap of music, then commit it to memory, just in case they don't end up charged with copyright theft. Webber has written many musicals in different styles, with varying styles of music. if Webber was American they would exhalt him. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on May 18, 2017 13:10:18 GMT
errr. thank you for calling me bitter.
can you really compare sondheim and lloyd webber? i wasn't. they both share the same birthday but that's about that. one is mainstream and the other arthouse.
how are you measuring success? both have it but in different forms.
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Post by viserys on May 18, 2017 13:55:14 GMT
Overrated - Stephen Schwartz *ducks for cover* I just don't find any of his songs that memorable or impressive, with the obvious exception of defying gravity (but the cynical part of me wonders if even that's just because of its exposure) My favorite Schwartz score must be Children of Eden. The show itself may be a bit lame (never seen it, gutted I missed it at the Union last year) but there are several lovely songs in it. Would love to hear "Stranger to the rain" sung by someone with a less squeaky voice than Ms Ruffelle. Considering the hype around Wicked, I can understand how Schwartz may feel overrated though. "Defying Gravity" is a decent song, but it gets too shouty for my taste at some point. I held back on my opinion of Wildhorn so far, but here goes: I wouldn't call him over- or underrated, as he gets the flops he deserves. He has a gift for writing fantastic single songs and my favorite work of his is The Civil War, where he doesn't even try to tell a tale but strings a lot of songs together by mere theme. Yes, he's hampered by bad books and lyrics, especially by the excreable Jack Murphy, but I also often get a sense that Wildhorn doesn't really put much care into his shows. He throws shows out left and right and they all sound fairly samey. I'm okay with his Americana shows - I'd actually love to see Bonnie & Clyde at some point, but he makes my blood boil when he messes with European history or literary classics. His King Arthur was a laughable travesty and don't get me started on the musical he wrote about the Austrian crown prince Rudolph - a fascinating man with a fascinating life in fascinating times reduced to a sappy (historically incorrect) dumb luuuurve story. If Wildhorn took care to craft his shows carefully and with a better partner, I'm sure there'd be potential in them. Personally I'm a big fan of ALW and not ashamed to admit to that, but I agree that recent efforts like Love Never Dies and Stephen Ward were dire. Though I blame the books mostly. LND should never have seen the light of day and the book of Stephen Ward was a mess, considering what kind of potential the story had. |
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