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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 11, 2017 19:35:18 GMT
Many touring productions come back to Manchester after their initial run and on the occasions where I've gone again for the "last shout" the difference between the production when it started the tour and at the end has been notable.
Do audiences seeing the show at the end of the run get a poorer quality product than those who saw it at the start? How long does it take for things to start slipping (if they do) and what is done to try and prevent it? Does the quality of productions in the WE drop as time goes by?
And if you're a performer or technician, how do you deal with the monotony of a long running show or tour? no matter how much you love the production you're appearing in it must be mind numbingly boring to press the same buttons, say the same words and sing the same songs every night. No?
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Post by Dawnstar on Mar 11, 2017 21:10:29 GMT
I came across a good quote on this subject recently, from actor John Barrymore's 1926 autobiography:
"...with the most loyal and encouraging support of an audience, one may become stale. About this time one is reminded, as in the "big" love scene of the second act, while breathing, with impassioned fervour, down the leading lady's neck, that fishing is perhaps a much better business. To play one part eight times a week is too much for an actor."
Evidently this has been an issue for a long time. I wonder if there are any similar quotes from, say, Shakepeare's day! Barrymore's solution seems to have been alcohol - as doubtless it still is for some actors nowadays!
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Post by mallardo on Mar 11, 2017 21:23:54 GMT
Is saying the same lines for two hours a show, eight times a week, really that boring? I'll take it every time over most day jobs. And aren't we constantly being told by actors that every performance, every audience, is different?
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Post by Jon on Mar 11, 2017 23:50:42 GMT
I think it depends on the show and if the creative team are involved in refreshing it every so often to keep it fresh. Cameron Mackintosh went unannounced to see a performance of Les Mis on Broadway and found it in such bad shape, he fired the majority of the cast!
Theatre needs to be vibrant and if people stay in the same roles or they recycle actors for the same part or they don't update the sound system etc there is a risk a production just becomes a museum piece. I'm quite glad that unlike on Broadway, there is an annual cast change.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 9:05:44 GMT
Is saying the same lines for two hours a show, eight times a week, really that boring? I'll take it every time over most day jobs. And aren't we constantly being told by actors that every performance, every audience, is different? And even regardless of whether it's boring or not, I'm sure many of us in our jobs are required to do the same thing every day, and to the same standard, so why should theatre performers be any different? Yes, of course there will be days when someone's under the weather or has something else in their personal life on their mind that slightly affects the level of their performance, but as a general rule the performers are hired to give the same performance 8 shows a week, so they should all be of roughly the same standard. And that's regardless of the length of the run as well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 9:13:29 GMT
Never mind the effect of however many weeks the show has run. What about the performance quality cycle within each week?
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Post by kathryn on Mar 12, 2017 10:29:44 GMT
Indeed, I am reminded of Luke Evans saying 'don't go to matinees' on the Graham Norton show. That really wound me up!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 11:14:49 GMT
SRB says when he starts to get a little tired of the show he starts to listen to what people are actually saying again
If I had a dollar for every time a lazy actor has phoned in my local bureau d' change would be super pleased. The recent worse? The guy playing pharaoh in joes' joeseph tour last year, he was an embarrassment
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Post by wickedgrin on Mar 12, 2017 11:31:48 GMT
The short answer to the thread question is ..... yes!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 12, 2017 11:32:39 GMT
It really pees me off when the costumes or set look dodgy. I remember seeing a Priscilla tour at the end of the run (they always seem to come back to Manchester to squeeze the last few quid out if it) and the costumes looked dirty and worn. It's hard to be a fabulous drag queen with holes in your fishnets.
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Post by 49thand8th on Mar 12, 2017 16:18:55 GMT
I think it depends on the show and if the creative team are involved in refreshing it every so often to keep it fresh. Cameron Mackintosh went unannounced to see a performance of Les Mis on Broadway and found it in such bad shape, he fired the majority of the cast! That was a wacky time back in 1996 and they actually had to bring in the touring cast for a bit and cancel some performances of the tour while they rehearsed all the new folks. Here's a story about one of the ensemble members and other details of the firings: www.nytimes.com/1996/10/30/theater/from-les-miserables-to-just-plain-miserable.htmlThe best performance of Phantom that I ever saw -- other than closing night in San Francisco (of the sit-down) and one wild night in Vegas -- was a random matinee performance on Broadway that I went to in 2007. No anniversary; no one's first or last show. Just a really solid, fantastic performance by everyone. It felt so fresh and like a newly opened show. I don't think audiences necessarily always get short-changed during a long run. A lot of it has to do with resident directors doing their job. And maybe the head honcho showing up as a surprise once in a while. The mass firing at Les Miz in 1996 hasn't had an equivalent since, I'm pretty sure. I wonder if that was a big teaching moment.
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Post by Jan on Mar 12, 2017 16:23:20 GMT
One actor - I can't remember who, might have been Antony Hopkins - once admitted he lost interest in the production after the opening night, only the rehearsals were interesting for him.
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19,786 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 12, 2017 16:35:40 GMT
I think it depends on the show and if the creative team are involved in refreshing it every so often to keep it fresh. Cameron Mackintosh went unannounced to see a performance of Les Mis on Broadway and found it in such bad shape, he fired the majority of the cast! That was a wacky time back in 1996 and they actually had to bring in the touring cast for a bit and cancel some performances of the tour while they rehearsed all the new folks. Here's a story about one of the ensemble members and other details of the firings: www.nytimes.com/1996/10/30/theater/from-les-miserables-to-just-plain-miserable.htmlSo this guy was working solidly in Les Mis for 9 years, got fired because he was phoning in his performances, got $25,000 compo from Cam Mack and then went crying back to his acting students saying they had to be crazy to get into acting?
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Post by 49thand8th on Mar 12, 2017 16:43:32 GMT
LOL. YEP!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 17:07:27 GMT
I remember Cam Mack saying at the time of the mass sacking that most of the cast looked too old to be playing young students, which was probably true if they'd all been in it for that long. However, the original London cast featured quite a "mature" group who met their ends at the barricades- David Burt's Enjolras was 32!
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Post by Jon on Mar 12, 2017 18:01:16 GMT
I remember Cam Mack saying at the time of the mass sacking that most of the cast looked too old to be playing young students, which was probably true if they'd all been in it for that long. However, the original London cast featured quite a "mature" group who met their ends at the barricades- David Burt's Enjolras was 32! Blood Brothers had cast members who were far too old to play Eddie and Mickey and look even older than Mrs Johnston!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 18:10:40 GMT
But Blood Brothers asks you to suspend your disbelief from the off. The "children" have always been played by adults, like in Blue Remembered Hills, and it works. Les Miserables, on the other hand, was asking us to take "mature students" to a different level!
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Post by ShoesForRent on Mar 12, 2017 18:18:11 GMT
Alex Brightman speaks of his time in Wicked- how long running shows become "machines" and how some actors treat their jobs in those long runners
at 16:10 ish
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 18:36:58 GMT
But Blood Brothers asks you to suspend your disbelief from the off. The "children" have always been played by adults, like in Blue Remembered Hills, and it works. Les Miserables, on the other hand, was asking us to take "mature students" to a different level! However the twins both die mid 20s and the bloke playing the posh one on the most recent tour was 56!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 19:21:23 GMT
But Blood Brothers asks you to suspend your disbelief from the off. The "children" have always been played by adults, like in Blue Remembered Hills, and it works. Les Miserables, on the other hand, was asking us to take "mature students" to a different level! However the twins both die mid 20s and the bloke playing the posh one on the most recent tour was 56!!!!!! LOL! I have no idea who this bloke is/could be, but I reckon the moral of the story is... don't see the tour! Or avoid going at the end of the tour. There are only a couple of tours I have ever really enjoyed- the JCS original tour in Manchester, the Laurence Connor Les Mis and Phantom tours, and the (Joanna Ampil) Cats tour a couple of years ago. Long runners? Sometimes the casts are better, the resident director tweaks and fine-tunes more, but the sets and costumes always look a bit tired. It's the audiences at long runners that put me off.
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Post by Jon on Mar 12, 2017 20:36:28 GMT
Long runners? Sometimes the casts are better, the resident director tweaks and fine-tunes more, but the sets and costumes always look a bit tired. It's the audiences at long runners that put me off. Apart from sound upgrades, there likely nowt that can be done to change costumes and sets without altering the show and I imagine once the show is a cash cow, most producers don't want to spend extra money on a show unless it's going to massively improve the show. Lion King IIRC has been tweaked over the years as have Wicked and Les Mis, Wicked made changes in almost every production which were incorporated into the other productions.
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Post by 49thand8th on Mar 12, 2017 22:48:50 GMT
Book of Mormon changed Nabulungi's pageant costume on Broadway slightly, to what it was on the tour (more yellow) once they decided they liked it more.
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Post by thebearofwestend on Mar 13, 2017 0:46:31 GMT
I think you will have a much worse time seeing an Australian Production of a show. Les Mis was in excellent shape when I saw it
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Post by 49thand8th on Mar 13, 2017 3:59:46 GMT
Don't those two sentences contradict?
(I saw Jersey Boys and Spring Awakening there in 2010, and Born Yesterday and Mormon last month. Neither felt like they'd been running too long, but I guess they hadn't...)
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Post by Jan on Mar 13, 2017 7:39:26 GMT
So this guy was working solidly in Les Mis for 9 years, got fired because he was phoning in his performances, got $25,000 compo from Cam Mack and then went crying back to his acting students saying they had to be crazy to get into acting? Right. Let's just read this startling assertion from that article again: "Mr. Robertson, 45, is a working professional who had thought of acting as a career with stability" I just happened to be watching McKellen on "Who Do You Think You Are" and he, in common with every other actor I've ever heard speak about it, said the exact opposite.
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