4,631 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 27, 2017 23:10:04 GMT
By today's announcement David Hare must feel put out.
Also no announcement of Oslo coming over.
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6,326 posts
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Post by Jon on Jan 27, 2017 23:59:26 GMT
By today's announcement David Hare must feel put out. Also no announcement of Oslo coming over. I imagine they'll want to see how it fares on Broadway first. I imagine it won't until mid 2018 anyway if it does go to the National.
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Post by bordeaux on Jan 28, 2017 12:00:51 GMT
By today's announcement David Hare must feel put out. Also no announcement of Oslo coming over. I'd not heard of Oslo, so thanks for that heads-up. Would be great to see Jennifer Ehle on London stage again. Not sure I understand the David Hare reference? Why should he feel put out?
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4,631 posts
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Post by Phantom of London on Jan 28, 2017 13:29:16 GMT
Oh I am just kidding with Dvid Hare with so much of his stuff put on in the National, it seems he makes every artistic announcement,
I heard a while ago that the National are interested in bringing Oslo over, so could come over to the National eventually or go direct into a West End house or not come over all together, time will tell.
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852 posts
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Post by bordeaux on Jan 28, 2017 21:50:36 GMT
Oh I am just kidding with Dvid Hare with so much of his stuff put on in the National, it seems he makes every artistic announcement, I heard a while ago that the National are interested in bringing Oslo over, so could come over to the National eventually or go direct into a West End house or not come over all together, time will tell. I know what you mean, but given that he's just done two somewhat below-par adaptations for the National, he can't complain. Though it's been a while since he created characters I had any interest in (Skylight, perhaps). His best work in recent years has been the stuff based on interviews/research - The Permanent Way and Stuff Happens.
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1,119 posts
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Post by martin1965 on Jan 29, 2017 12:58:23 GMT
Common is the only thing in new brochure that interests, well apart from Angels which i have already booked for. I will go to Follies which should be amazing. Bit worrying that, with AIA, Follies and the uocoming Network and Pinnochio the National could be renamed 'Broadway on Thames'. Network certainly seems like a pre broadway tryout!
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Post by Jan on Jan 29, 2017 13:41:41 GMT
Common is the only thing in new brochure that interests, well apart from Angels which i have already booked for. I will go to Follies which should be amazing. Bit worrying that, with AIA, Follies and the uocoming Network and Pinnochio the National could be renamed 'Broadway on Thames'. Network certainly seems like a pre broadway tryout! Yes they are in thrall to USA. Casting a minor (based on viewing figures in U.K.) USA TV star in Network is poor - they could have cast a UK actor, in the film it wasn't a USA actor. In Peter Hall's day he was absolutely slated for staging the Broadway try-out Jean Seberg especially when it turned out to be no good.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 29, 2017 13:46:27 GMT
And the new productions announced for the Lyttelton in 2017 by the National Theatre of Great Britain are all American plays and adaptations of American source material:
Ugly Lies the Bone
Angels in America: Millennium Approaches
Angels in America: Perestroika
Network
Pinocchio
And the year began with continuing performances of the remounted New York production of Hedda Gabler.
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Post by Jan on Jan 29, 2017 13:54:43 GMT
And the new productions announced for the Lyttelton in 2017 by the National Theatre of Great Britain are all American plays and adaptations of American source material: Ugly Lies the Bone Angels in America: Millennium Approaches Angels in America: Perestroika Network Pinocchio And the year began with continuing performances of the remounted New York production of Hedda Gabler. At least Red Barn was only SET in America.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 14:42:28 GMT
Common is the only thing in new brochure that interests, well apart from Angels which i have already booked for. I will go to Follies which should be amazing. Bit worrying that, with AIA, Follies and the uocoming Network and Pinnochio the National could be renamed 'Broadway on Thames'. Network certainly seems like a pre broadway tryout! Yes they are in thrall to USA. Casting a minor (based on viewing figures in U.K.) USA TV star in Network is poor - they could have cast a UK actor, in the film it wasn't a USA actor. In Peter Hall's day he was absolutely slated for staging the Broadway try-out Jean Seberg especially when it turned out to be no good. breaking bad, minor? it has a big following here. You can't go on regular viewing figures, people watched it via streaming, illegal downloads, dvds etc
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Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 29, 2017 14:58:22 GMT
breaking bad, minor? it has a big following here. You can't go on regular viewing figures, people watched it via streaming, illegal downloads, dvds etc Yes, the NT seems to be part of a bubble for whom Broadway and Netflix are at the centre of the cultural universe. But this is quite alien to most of the rest of us. And it seems ridiculous for the NT to be so obsessed with presenting this bubble of US culture when it is supposed to be the national theatre. Even though it's really a London theatre, and not national in many ways, and I accept that this American culture is apparently far more important to metropolitan people, it still seems to me that a national theatre should properly pay court to America far less than it does, relative to its attention to the rest of the world and to this country.
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Post by Jan on Jan 29, 2017 15:34:52 GMT
Yes they are in thrall to USA. Casting a minor (based on viewing figures in U.K.) USA TV star in Network is poor - they could have cast a UK actor, in the film it wasn't a USA actor. In Peter Hall's day he was absolutely slated for staging the Broadway try-out Jean Seberg especially when it turned out to be no good. breaking bad, minor? it has a big following here. You can't go on regular viewing figures, people watched it via streaming, illegal downloads, dvds etc Yep, minor. The regular viewing figure were so low they barely registered. It has really ONLY been seen on Netflix (who don't release viewing figures but you can assume a lowish percentage of their subscriber base). It appeals to quite a limited demographic but they're the ones who write about it in the media so it and similar shows (like Mad Men) get disproportionate coverage which make them seem more popular than they are. Of course Breaking Bad also tops the list of TV shows people lie about having seen. Here's a question - I have no idea what the answer is - when was the last time the NT staged a play by a living writer from mainland Europe ?
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Post by Polly1 on Jan 29, 2017 16:33:13 GMT
I remembered a play about an Eastern European family recently - looked it up, it was called '3 Winters' by Tena Stivicic. Set in Croatia so I assume she (?) is European and a new play so still alive...
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Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 29, 2017 16:48:32 GMT
So more than two years ago. Croatian born. British resident.
EDIT: Actually, let's be fair. Us/Them, playing now, by Carly Wijs, is Belgian.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Jan 29, 2017 16:51:50 GMT
The Hour We Knew Nothing Of Each Other by Peter Handke in 2008
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Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 29, 2017 17:03:45 GMT
The contrast with National Theatre Wales is quite striking. In the first seven years, I can think of nothing at all connected with America. But there've been two co-productions with Berlin companies (Rimini Protokoll and Constanza Makras/Dorkypark) and one with New National Theatre, Tokyo.
EDIT: The NTW show {150} included a film shot in Patagonia, South America, so Yes an American connection but hardly End-to-end Broadway/New York/Netflix like the South Bank NT.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 21:24:35 GMT
I don't mind this American phase to be honest. Do you not remember when every other play was Irish? At least all the American stuff should be reasonably different to each other.
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Post by bordeaux on Jan 29, 2017 21:45:07 GMT
The Hour We Knew Nothing Of Each Other by Peter Handke in 2008 2009 Our Class about the massacre at Jedwabne.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 30, 2017 1:37:48 GMT
The contrast with National Theatre Wales is quite striking. In the first seven years, I can think of nothing at all connected with America. But there've been two co-productions with Berlin companies (Rimini Protokoll and Constanza Makras/Dorkypark) and one with New National Theatre, Tokyo. EDIT: The NTW show {150} included a film shot in Patagonia, South America, so Yes an American connection but hardly End-to-end Broadway/New York/Netflix like the South Bank NT. The Radicalisation of Bradley Manning was NTW wasn't it?
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Post by Jan on Jan 30, 2017 7:08:26 GMT
I don't mind this American phase to be honest. Do you not remember when every other play was Irish? You're thinking of the Donmar People like Rufus Norris and (especially) Sir David Hare have a curious love/hate relationship with USA. And in Sir David Hare's case the last Labour government too, he even married and divorced someone called Blair Brown. Off-topic, here's a choice bit of Grumpy Old Man rubbish from Sir David who doesn't seem to have seen the production of his own play Red Barn. www.theguardian.com/stage/2017/jan/29/david-hare-classic-british-drama-infected-radical-european-staging#comment-92158169
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 8:31:05 GMT
I don't mind this American phase to be honest. Do you not remember when every other play was Irish? You're thinking of the Donmar Oh yes, of course, Juno and the Paycock and The Silver Tassie and The Plough and the Stars and Ballyturk and Misterman all played in the Lyttelton auditorium of the Donmar, thank you for your kind and accurate correction.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 30, 2017 9:17:45 GMT
The Radicalisation of Bradley Manning was NTW wasn't it? Yes, staged in the school she attended in Haverfordwest. So both Welsh and global. I think it was the first show that NTW livestreamed online, viewed by an international audience. Quite different from the blinkered infatuation with Broadway, New York and the USA at the South Bank NT.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 9:22:54 GMT
I mean I think what NTW and NTS are doing is fabulous, but their approach, funding and general remit is a bit different (being without buildings for a start) and some in both countries can (and do!) argue that they aren't Welsh/Scottish enough as well, with all these "Foreign" collaborations. So swings and roundabouts.
All the big theatres go through phases. Younger viewers may remember the hatred of Nunn's musical phase. And I think back in the early 00s we had another American phase at the NT. I don't mind it, but I'm a fan of American drama, and I don't have any principled objection to the NT staging a fair whack. I think in London as well we have a lot of venues better suited to the newer British work (and I'm not sure much of what we currently produce is designed for a big stage, and I don't mean that as an insult at all, so sits better at the Court, Young Vic etc)
Anyway, swings and roundabouts what goes around comes around and we'll be moaning soon about Rufus having a French period or something.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 30, 2017 9:35:16 GMT
Yes, NTW and NTS locate all their work in Wales and Scotland and directly address their audiences, always with a participatory element in the case of NTW. But the NT just presents productions to be gawped at on the South Bank, often with particular appeal to people infatuated with American theatre. Perhaps so as to retain American Express sponsorship? Certainly the NT's activities and policies are dominated by the influence of financial factors.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jan 30, 2017 9:42:18 GMT
I don't mind this American phase to be honest. Do you not remember when every other play was Irish? You're thinking of the Donmar People like Rufus Norris and (especially) Sir David Hare have a curious love/hate relationship with USA. And in Sir David Hare's case the last Labour government too, he even married and divorced someone called Blair Brown. Off-topic, here's a choice bit of Grumpy Old Man rubbish from Sir David who doesn't seem to have seen the production of his own play Red Barn. www.theguardian.com/stage/2017/jan/29/david-hare-classic-british-drama-infected-radical-european-staging#comment-92158169When I read it I presumed that it was a not very subtle attack on Robert Icke, the director of The Red Barn and one highly influenced by contemporary European practice (Oresteia, Vanya, 1984 etc,).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 9:48:09 GMT
Yes, NTW and NTS locate all their work in Wales and Scotland and directly address their audiences, always with a participatory element in the case of NTW. But the NT just presents productions to be gawped at on the South Bank, often with particular appeal to people infatuated with American theatre. Perhaps so as to retain American Express sponsorship? Certainly the NT's activities and policies are dominated by the influence of financial factors. I'm not blindly defending the NT. Honestly not living in London I'm not engaged with their entire body of work, only the 'big hits' as I imagine most of the country are.
Perhaps it wasn't clear that I was indeed praising NTW and NTS for what they've done, for showing that you DON'T need a designated building to make work and that a National theatre can be experimental. (and while we're at it a groups of great women at the helm across the recent years too). I might not like some of NTW's work (they do tend to veer towards the overly pretentious at times) but I respect them for what they do.
BUT NTW and NTS don't have a big expensive building on the South Bank to run, and a historic remit that's markedly different. I don't fault the NT for 'crowd pleasing' or Rufus et al for star casting, big American plays or anything else. It's a different beast and not one I envy running.
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Post by Jan on Jan 30, 2017 9:57:16 GMT
When I read it I presumed that it was a not very subtle attack on Robert Icke, the director of The Red Barn and one highly influenced by contemporary European practice (Oresteia, Vanya, 1984 etc,). Possibly so. My assumption was he wrote the book before that production and so had made himself look foolish. Possibly he is pissed-off the staging is so complicated he can't transfer it to Broadway. His criticism of high-concept Shakespeare is misguided if the alternative is his own catastrophically inept production of King Lear at NT where actors in generic old-style clothes marched across an empty stage, said their lines at each other, and marched off again. It misses the point entirely to question what the Merchant of Venice characters are doing in Vegas - it's a metaphor and provides useful cultural markers, Sir David, we're not bothered "why" they're there.
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Post by bordeaux on Jan 30, 2017 13:22:47 GMT
When I read it I presumed that it was a not very subtle attack on Robert Icke, the director of The Red Barn and one highly influenced by contemporary European practice (Oresteia, Vanya, 1984 etc,). Possibly so. My assumption was he wrote the book before that production and so had made himself look foolish. Possibly he is pissed-off the staging is so complicated he can't transfer it to Broadway. His criticism of high-concept Shakespeare is misguided if the alternative is his own catastrophically inept production of King Lear at NT where actors in generic old-style clothes marched across an empty stage, said their lines at each other, and marched off again. It misses the point entirely to question what the Merchant of Venice characters are doing in Vegas - it's a metaphor and provides useful cultural markers, Sir David, we're not bothered "why" they're there. To be fair, it seems to be Sweet who is criticising the Las Vegas setting, not Hare. I don't think Hare would have any problems with the Icke staging of The Red Barn as it was played as written. What he dislikes is plays where a wholesale betrayal of the original goes on.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Jan 30, 2017 13:49:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 13:54:59 GMT
Grumpy old men, speak of them and they appear
(I have a lot of respect of Billington's opinions but he does come across as having a grumpy moan about not getting enough nice plays he likes there)
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