2,206 posts
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NHS
Jan 22, 2017 13:39:23 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Jan 22, 2017 13:39:23 GMT
Andrew, for the last time I am not saying that the lavish NHS pension is "the problem". What I am saying is that when the terms and conditions of NHS staff are considered, the fact that the average GP and senior doctor will receive many hundreds of thousands of pounds from the scheme over the course of their retirement is rarely mentioned and should be taken into account. And I'm very well aware of the changes made in 2015, but the employer (the taxpayer) contribution has actually gone up. I can see that the considerable benefits you will get in retirement seem distant to a junior doctor (until it's suggested they might be reduced), but trust me, when you get to middle age, with life expectancy well into the 80s, you will realise how valuable they are. The average contribution from a doctor over their working life will be anything from 150K to 200k From their salary to their pension This is at 14.5% Most people would balk at paying that and would not be able to afford it even as they need the money at hand If you invested this instead into a property in the right part of London or internationally You would get a way better return than the NHS pension over 40 years I don't see your point And as I said lots of people are choosing to opt out of their pension So I still don't see your point I don't want to turn this into a defend the doctors thread But are you aware doctors pay up to 20K per year out of their own pocket to indemnity insurance which is compulsory? To protect themselves from complaints and litigation These charges have more than doubled in the last 10 years Is that your tory boy post?
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115 posts
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NHS
Jan 23, 2017 10:16:20 GMT
Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2017 10:16:20 GMT
Parsley - the taxpayer contributes 14.5% to your pension. 14.5%! And it's guaranteed. That's why it's so good. And let's not forget the lump sum of 3 times annual salary which you'll get when you retire, on top of the pension.
But I do agree with whoever said this has become a bit of a diversion from what's wrong with the NHS. It's just that there are so many genuinely low paid workers suffering from austerity, with whose position that of doctors just doesn't equate. Anyway. I would willingly pay more tax to spend more on the NHS (just not on pensions or higher doctors' salaries). That's what it will take, I think; without that, it's doomed.
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2,302 posts
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Post by Tibidabo on Jan 23, 2017 16:50:34 GMT
But are you aware doctors pay up to 20K per year out of their own pocket to indemnity insurance which is compulsory? To protect themselves from complaints and litigation These charges have more than doubled in the last 10 years This. Terrifies. Me. One of the mini Tibidabos is currently in the throes of applying to med school. This is what keeps me awake at night. Not the £54,000 fee loan they'll have to pay back (that doesn't include living expenses in London for 6 years) so they can study for 6+years in order to take care of the nation. Not the £100s we've already spent for them to take the exams the med schools insist on, on top of their A levels. No, the fact that you turn on the telly, see an advert for a fantastic holiday in the Seychelles you can't afford, followed by an advert getting you to have a jolly good old think about whether there may be a doctor somewhere that you'd like to sue.....now THAT would pay for the holiday, wouldn't it? This is what makes me lose sleep. Doctors, teachers, nurses should not have to pay to learn to do what they do. They deserve every penny of their pension at the other end of their lives, surely?
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NHS
Jan 23, 2017 17:40:57 GMT
Post by alexandra on Jan 23, 2017 17:40:57 GMT
"Doctors, teachers, nurses should not have to pay to learn to do what they do. They deserve every penny of their pension at the other end of their lives, surely?"
What about social workers or charity workers? Or criminal defence or human rights barristers? All also performing a public service, and with compulsory indemnity insurance, low pay, no or low pension.
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NHS
Jan 23, 2017 20:13:24 GMT
Post by Honoured Guest on Jan 23, 2017 20:13:24 GMT
And hairdressers.
And actors, designers and production students.
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155 posts
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NHS
Jan 23, 2017 23:26:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by synchrony on Jan 23, 2017 23:26:09 GMT
I don't see how that is relevant. The point is that this thread began by saying how demoralising at upsetting it is for NHS staff to hear "negative comments on an almost daily basis and then having to go in to work in a system underfunded by the state and overused by patients only to see government shifting the blame about from person to person".
I may not work for the NHS but I am not blind to the truth of this, or the terrible behaviour of some particular politicians and the press. I don't see this kind of treatment/government interference being dished out to any other profession, other than teaching (and I know many teachers who are also highly demoralised and leaving the profession).
I can't believe some of the responses on this thread and seeming lack of appreciation of how damaging this is.
(edited to say, social workers of course often are blamed in the media when tragic family cases come to light, and are underfunded so I also find this concerning. But this doesn't stop me from being any less concerned about the NHS).
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NHS
Jan 23, 2017 23:57:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 23:57:36 GMT
I don't see how that is relevant. The point is that this thread began by saying how demoralising at upsetting it is for NHS staff to hear "negative comments on an almost daily basis and then having to go in to work in a system underfunded by the state and overused by patients only to see government shifting the blame about from person to person". I may not work for the NHS but I am not blind to the truth of this, or the terrible behaviour of some particular politicians and the press. I don't see this kind of treatment/government interference being dished out to any other profession, other than teaching (and I know many teachers who are also highly demoralised and leaving the profession). I can't believe some of the responses on this thread and seeming lack of appreciation of how damaging this is. (edited to say, social workers of course often are blamed in the media when tragic family cases come to light, and are underfunded so I also find this concerning. But this doesn't stop me from being any less concerned about the NHS). We need to get Ruth Wilson to do a speech about the NHS And cry as she goes offstage To make people pay attention
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