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Post by Snciole on Dec 20, 2016 10:14:07 GMT
The diversity in ballet and opera is, again, about culture and access for the minorities. I was never taken to a ballet or opera but alternatively, I was never told you can't be a ballet dancer or you can't be an opera singer but I would have had no idea how to make that start.
The issue ultimately is money and knowledge. I work for a Music and Drama examinations board and the majority of the students are from private schools, by doing these exams they have an advantage over state school pupils who may not even do GCSE Music and Drama. That means knowledge of what you need to do to get into Guildhall, RADA, Central etc as well as the experience needed.
There are of course BME ballerinas and opera singers but are they based in the UK? Do they want to come here to work? Again there is no obligation to cast anybody so why go to the effort of seeking out a BME singer when it is clear that the audience, on the whole, isn't calling out diversity.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 14:34:19 GMT
I am mixed race and I honestly suspect the lack of theatre attendance amongst BME is not only culture (I was never taken to the theatre as a child and I doubt my mum will ever go So, snciole, how did you "get into" theatre, then? It's a different (if related) discussion that engagement for youngsters/families from Working Class backgrounds is also a problem. I didn't set foot in a theatre until I was 17, and in my very working class school drama was on the curriculum because the government said so but that's about it. Nobody in my family ever went to the theatre as far as I recall.
So interesting parallels and differences in different kinds of sections of society there- I'd be curious to see the overlaps and differences if someone ever researched that.
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Post by bellboard27 on Dec 20, 2016 14:43:44 GMT
I think it interesting that the protesters against the Print Room think east Asian casting is fine for a play set in China, but not white. I asked my next door neighbour who is Chinese what he thought. He said he was not bothered who was cast, but if he did have a problem with someone else playing a Chinese person, it would probably be most likely with someone from Japan (recent history still be very sensitive).
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Post by Snciole on Dec 20, 2016 14:53:24 GMT
I am mixed race and I honestly suspect the lack of theatre attendance amongst BME is not only culture (I was never taken to the theatre as a child and I doubt my mum will ever go So, snciole, how did you "get into" theatre, then? Entry Pass. I was 23 (I had attended some dance , for example) and saw A Woman Killed with Kindness. It was crap but a man fell asleep and was woken by a gun shot and I woken to joy of theatre.
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Post by bellboard27 on Dec 20, 2016 15:28:36 GMT
Brecht was a political artist and was, to some extent, writing about China. We could argue about his entitlement to do so, as a cultural outsider. In complete contrast, Barker plays with ideas, emotions and behaviours in rigorously decontextualised constructions. Authenticity in Barker can only be to the text and to his imagination; there is no representation of any real world. Brecht himself stated in the foreword of the German edition that the play is meant to be a parable and Szechuan stands for "any place in which people exploit people" - it's initial working title was "Die Ware Liebe", which is a hard to translate word play as "Ware" means commodity but in German sounds the same as "wahre" which means true. He seems to have picked Szechuan rather randomly for his setting. I hold a special place of loathing for this play as we did it in school in Germany and my teacher gave me an F for the subsequent written test about it on account of "how I totally hadn't got it". Back then I took it lying down, these days I'd raise a hell of a racket over theatre being open to interpretation, especially since Brecht purposely left it open ended. But we're getting off-topic now, so I'll shut up. No, that's interesting. Could you expand please? How about a 2,000 word essay by the end of Thursday?
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Post by viserys on Dec 20, 2016 15:40:24 GMT
I'd rather listen to Last Christmas on a permanent loop until Boxing Day...
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Dec 20, 2016 15:48:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2016 16:30:37 GMT
I don't believe the Print Room meant to imply that as an 'English' production, it had to be white. It certainly wasn't my reading of the statement - I think the problem is that people are now forensically going over their wording and when you do that, it's perfectly possible to find plenty of meanings that aren't actually there.
I think they simply meant that there isn't necessarily a reason to go screaming about 'yellow face' and accusing creatives of 'being racist' if the play itself can legitimately be read as English. Ergo, you could legitimately cast white actors. That's all.
It's a different argument entirely, but one that certain professional commentators appear to be either wilfully ignoring, or simply not considering. (Yes, Equity, I mean you.)
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Post by Snciole on Dec 20, 2016 16:51:02 GMT
I am assuming entry pass was something I had seen online, it's plus was and remains that it was cheaper than going to the cinema but the dance was teachers. For me, at any level of education, the access to professional or even good amateur productions were non-existent.
I've just been at my work Christmas party (but I ran away to hide in the NT) so apologise for any drunken rant in advance but access is key and whilst theatres are doing a great job at offering concessions to a loy of people I don't think the state education system has the time, money (outside of London, in particular) and resources to take students to theatre and awaken an interest or even contempt for the stage.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Dec 20, 2016 17:44:33 GMT
I got hooked through listening to the radio, mainly. As a teenager, I listened avidly to Kaleidoscope (a reviews-only nightly arts programme now replaced with the more features-based Front Row) and Critics' Forum (a weekly arts review group discussion programme now replaced with Saturday Review). And I listened to very many radio dramas too, and watched tv drama, which were both much closer to theatre then than now.
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Post by DuchessConstance on Dec 21, 2016 0:39:16 GMT
ALW causing controversy again today by talking about how he discovered Rihanna but decided not to bring her back home with him, and compared her to a holiday impulse purchase. So maybe ALW should stop talking about race issues for a little bit.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 0:47:08 GMT
ALW causing controversy again today by talking about how he discovered Rihanna but decided not to bring her back home with him, and compared her to a holiday impulse purchase. So maybe ALW should stop talking about race issues for a little bit. I don't see how that's racist? Just because she's black doesn't mean that him comparing her to a holiday impulse purchase makes it racist. It's a tad sexist though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 9:04:13 GMT
I do agree with @pointone, but I don't see why it can't be a bit of both, women of colour tending to experience sexism in greater quantity and in entirely different ways to white women.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 9:04:44 GMT
So, you did have access to the "live performance experience" through dance, and that meant you were used to being in an auditorium. Once you had that, you went to a theatre because it was cheaper than a cinema ticket. Fascinating. What I feel you are saying is that everyone needs some kind of gateway to experiencing any kind of live performance first (and my school was just as useless, I must add). One you have that, you next need to make it a far cheaper alternative to any other leisure interest. Snciole should probably be appointed an access Tsar or something... There's a great scheme at the Sherman Theatre (supported by the Paul Hamlyn foundation) for just this- they target a range of community groups that don't traditionally make up the theatre's audience (which in this case is traditionally even more white middle class than most) and help them come to the theatre for the first time- by both cheap tickets but also helping with transport, providing 'buddies' at the theatre or pre/post show events. The idea was that it's not just money that prevents people accessing the theatre but these barriers that might not be obvious to anyone else. It's been really successful and now people from Sherman 5 groups are making up a bigger part of the audience!
I think Snicole should help set up similar schemes around the country!
www.shermantheatre.co.uk/sherman5/
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 9:06:35 GMT
I do agree with @pointone , but I don't see why it can't be a bit of both, women of colour tending to experience sexism in greater quantity and in entirely different ways to white women. Yes let's just agree ALW is being a bit of an arse but not an entirely racially motivated one. (weirdly I do think Rhianna might be quite good in some kind of musical though...which has nothing to do with race or gender just that her usual musical offerings aren't obviously musical theatre but I think she's kinda cool and has an interesting voice/style)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 9:07:41 GMT
Buddies in particular sounds like a great idea - we may laugh about it, but for a lot of people, it simply doesn't occur to them that theatre is something they can easily and comfortably do on their own. Even if you've never been there yourself (and I know I have - the day I realised going to the theatre alone was no big thing was a SERIOUS game changer), you must have heard of someone saying they wish they'd seen a particular show but couldn't find anyone to go with. Buddying up with someone instantly makes the whole thing seem friendlier and more accessible.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 9:12:52 GMT
Buddies in particular sounds like a great idea - we may laugh about it, but for a lot of people, it simply doesn't occur to them that theatre is something they can easily and comfortably do on their own. Even if you've never been there yourself (and I know I have - the day I realised going to the theatre alone was no big thing was a SERIOUS game changer), you must have heard of someone saying they wish they'd seen a particular show but couldn't find anyone to go with. Buddying up with someone instantly makes the whole thing seem friendlier and more accessible. Yup! and it's not just say older and younger people who we think of as the obvious ones, theatres are really intimidating spaces to people not used to them and they worry about not knowing the right procedures etc as well as the just 'Argh I'm on my own' element.
Sherman 5 does it two ways I think- by bringing community groups in together so their existing friends are there with them OR having an assigned 'Buddy' volunteer who meets at a designated/marked point (that anyone can approach) and have a friend to chat to and tell them where to go and when.
I know that as a kid that theatre particularly 'wasn't for people like us' because it's 'Proper arty' and if I'd had that offer as a teenager or even my early 20s when I was already going to the theatre alone, it would have made a world of difference.
Side note: going to the theatre alone is now THE BEST THING
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Post by Snciole on Dec 21, 2016 11:05:56 GMT
So, you did have access to the "live performance experience" through dance, and that meant you were used to being in an auditorium. Once you had that, you went to a theatre because it was cheaper than a cinema ticket. Fascinating. What I feel you are saying is that everyone needs some kind of gateway to experiencing any kind of live performance first (and my school was just as useless, I must add). One you have that, you next need to make it a far cheaper alternative to any other leisure interest. Snciole should probably be appointed an access Tsar or something... There's a great scheme at the Sherman Theatre (supported by the Paul Hamlyn foundation) for just this- they target a range of community groups that don't traditionally make up the theatre's audience (which in this case is traditionally even more white middle class than most) and help them come to the theatre for the first time- by both cheap tickets but also helping with transport, providing 'buddies' at the theatre or pre/post show events. The idea was that it's not just money that prevents people accessing the theatre but these barriers that might not be obvious to anyone else. It's been really successful and now people from Sherman 5 groups are making up a bigger part of the audience!
I think Snicole should help set up similar schemes around the country!
www.shermantheatre.co.uk/sherman5/
Ha! I should I think it is fair to say regional theatre rarely sells out and I would much rather see that space used for school groups than empty.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 22, 2016 10:42:01 GMT
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