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Post by oxfordsimon on Oct 25, 2016 14:38:50 GMT
Sometimes things don't just work out. Rice was always a 'brave' appointment - not because of her track record about the use of technology as part of her theatrical toolbox but because she had never directed Shakespeare before.
This was always going to be an uphill battle - not helped by the fact that she admitted that she didn't always understand the plays.
To be Artistic Director of a company that was dedicated (in the main) to the works of Shakespeare and his contemporaries without a track record in that area was, for me (and others), a step too far.
I only saw the broadcast of her Dream and found it overloaded with ideas and essentially a production that could have been at home in any other theatre in the UK. It didn't exploit the potential of the space.
The Globe has always balanced risk with historical investigation. And there is no reason why this should not continue going forward. It is the company that delivered both all male and all female ensembles, the three-person Tempest, projects investigation Original Pronunciation and much more. My first visit was to see Kathryn Hunter's production of Pericles - which was very far from being traditional.
We have many directors who have a deep love and knowledge of Shakespeare - and who take theatrical risks when it comes to staging the plays. Hopefully one of them will step forward and grasp the challenge of the Globe.
Rice is a talented director but was the wrong appointment. The board has moved as quickly as they can to move on from their earlier decision. That has taken a certain amount of courage. I don't think they have handled it as well as they could but it was necessary. Sometimes you have to put your hands up, admit errors and try to move forward - even knowing that you will get it in the neck from many angles.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Oct 25, 2016 14:48:32 GMT
Via Lyn Gardner "As Emma Rice departs, the Globe has egg on its face – and no vision" "The message is clear: the Globe is not really a theatre but part of the heritage industry and a plaything for academic researchers. This means it will have considerable difficulty attracting a new artistic director of any calibre and vision. Who wants to work in a theatre that in turning its back on Rice – who told me in April that she had ideas for at least four seasons – has made it clear that it would rather potter around in an artistic cul-de-sac than embrace a wider theatrical world?" I very much agree. Lyn Gardner article in full
The fallout begins - "Board members are rumoured to be leaving, the press release doesn't add up and insiders say it's about control: David Ellis wonders what on earth is happening at the Globe" Evening Standard article"A charity that made its first grants to Shakespeare’s Globe under artistic director Emma Rice’s tenure has revealed it will not give the theatre any more money, and is threatening to demand the return of money it has already pledged." The Stage link
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Post by Snciole on Oct 25, 2016 15:04:48 GMT
Whilst I understand having Zoe Wanamaker on the board it does mean that it is always going to be difficult for any AD moving away from Sam Wanamaker's vision. I am sure she is a professional and as an actor interested in new work's but this was her father's project. I do wonder if anyone close to Sam is open to it changing.
ETA: Alternatively Wanamaker might be furious and want Rice to stay but my overall point is that when people are talking about a vision created by Wanamaker I am not sure having his daughter on the board is a great idea for moving forward.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Oct 25, 2016 15:08:54 GMT
Let us hope that no one applies to become Artistic Director. An appointment by this Board would be career suicide, and the appointee would be ostracised by the rest of the profession. We need Mark Rylance and Dominic Dromgoole to join everyone else, including the RSC, in condemning this Board. We need Lucy Bailey, director of Comus which starts previewing this week, to publicly attack the Board. This is the biggest theatre news story of my lifetime. It's outrageous.
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Post by Jan on Oct 25, 2016 15:10:28 GMT
Hard not to laugh at this shambles reallly, especially at how pissed-off Lyn Gardner is. . Board appoints Rice based on some sort of pitch she made at the interview about her vision then fire her when her work is exactly what any moderately well-informed theatre-goer could have told them it would be like. As noted above Lucy Bailey would be a good replacement.
The parallels with Norris are intriguing though, he seems to have bent to his board's pressure by scheduling middle-brow crowd-pleasers like Amadeus.
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Post by ldm2016 on Oct 25, 2016 15:16:07 GMT
Whilst I understand having Zoe Wanamaker on the board it does mean that it is always going to be difficult for any AD moving away from Sam Wanamaker's vision. I am sure she is a professional and as an actor interested in new work's but this was her father's project. I do wonder if anyone close to Sam is open to it changing. ETA: Alternatively Wanamaker might be furious and want Rice to stay but my overall point is that when people are talking about a vision created by Wanamaker I am not sure having his daughter on the board is a great idea for moving forward. But if that's their vision for The Globe it's their vision. end of.
The Globe is not committed to putting on hip-hop "versions" of Shakespeare's plays to please a section of the population.
There are plenty of fringe theatres in London to stage "unorthodox" interpretations of Shakespeare's work so why do people insist on putting pressure on the established theatres to stage productions aimed at and staring minority groups who never attend in their masses? Does it make you feel better about yourself? (not aimed directly at you btw)
That said, I was flabbergasted when Rice was appointed and the blame for the disaster which unfolded today lies solely with the person or persons who signed her contract.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Oct 25, 2016 15:18:08 GMT
The parallels with Norris are intriguing though, he seems to have bent to his board's pressure by scheduling middle-brow crowd-pleasers like Amadeus. Unfair! Direction by Michael Longhurst in his large-scale debut and design by Chloe Lamford. Two of our leading, recently emerged theatremakers. It's a serious production, and you're chronically blinkered to categorise any show purely by making a value judgment of its text. On the other hand, you were probably just trying to wind us all up with a mock controversional comment?
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Post by Jan on Oct 25, 2016 15:20:49 GMT
Let us hope that no one applies to become Artistic Director. An appointment by this Board would be career suicide, and the appointee would be ostracised by the rest of the profession. We need Mark Rylance and Dominic Dromgoole to join everyone else, including the RSC, in condemning this Board. We need Lucy Bailey, director of Comus which starts previewing this week, to publicly attack the Board. This is the biggest theatre news story of my lifetime. It's outrageous. The RSC ? Why should their useless board get involved ? The RSC were entirely responsible for the Globe's success actually according to Greg Doran "When the RSC left London the felling of that great oak enabled smaller saplings to grow towards the light ..." I see Rylance has condemned the RSC recently and said he'll not work there again, for sure he'll be on board when you march on the Globe.
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Post by Jan on Oct 25, 2016 15:24:55 GMT
The parallels with Norris are intriguing though, he seems to have bent to his board's pressure by scheduling middle-brow crowd-pleasers like Amadeus. Unfair! Direction by Michael Longhurst in his large-scale debut and design by Chloe Lamford. Two of our leading, recently emerged theatremakers. It's a serious production, and you're chronically blinkered to categorise any show purely by making a value judgment of its text. On the other hand, you were probably just trying to wind us all up with a mock controversional comment? The plays are chosen by Norris. Saying Amadeus is a middle-brow middle-class piece is hardly controversial, plenty of people (including several other playwrights and critics) have said it over the years. In terms of theatrical news you rate this minor skirmish higher than the opening of the NT on the South Bank for example ?
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Post by ldm2016 on Oct 25, 2016 15:26:18 GMT
Let us hope that no one applies to become Artistic Director. An appointment by this Board would be career suicide, and the appointee would be ostracised by the rest of the profession. We need Mark Rylance and Dominic Dromgoole to join everyone else, including the RSC, in condemning this Board. We need Lucy Bailey, director of Comus which starts previewing this week, to publicly attack the Board. This is the biggest theatre news story of my lifetime. It's outrageous. The RSC ? Why should their useless board get involved ? The RSC were entirely responsible for the Globe's success actually according to Greg Doran "When the RSC left London the felling of that great oak enabled smaller saplings to grow towards the light ..." I see Rylance has condemned the RSC recently and said he'll not work there again, for sure he'll be on board when you march on the Globe. Good! After his awful Much Ado About Nothing I'm glad I'll never have to endure him in Stratford again...
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Post by Jan on Oct 25, 2016 15:29:06 GMT
The RSC ? Why should their useless board get involved ? The RSC were entirely responsible for the Globe's success actually according to Greg Doran "When the RSC left London the felling of that great oak enabled smaller saplings to grow towards the light ..." I see Rylance has condemned the RSC recently and said he'll not work there again, for sure he'll be on board when you march on the Globe. Good! After his awful Much Ado About Nothing I'm glad I'll never have to endure him in Stratford again... Rylance ? Missed it. He did it with a Northern Irish accent ?
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Post by Honoured Guest on Oct 25, 2016 15:32:32 GMT
The RSC ? Why should their useless board get involved ? The RSC were entirely responsible for the Globe's success actually according to Greg Doran "When the RSC left London the felling of that great oak enabled smaller saplings to grow towards the light ..." I see Rylance has condemned the RSC recently and said he'll not work there again, for sure he'll be on board when you march on the Globe. Greg Doran, RSC executive director Catherine Mallyon and deputy artistic director Erica Whyman have issued a joint statement: "We are dismayed and disappointed to hear the news of Emma Rice’s departure from Shakespeare’s Globe. Emma is a vital force in British theatre and we have found her artistic programme, her productions and her spirit to be genuinely innovative and wonderfully refreshing. She has been a long-time collaborator with the RSC and is a bold, thoughtful and generous theatre artist who has always placed the audience at the heart of her work. "It is a great shame that her energy and thrilling new approach will now not be given the time and support it takes for any new artistic direction to be fully realised and understood. We look forward very much to working with Emma again in the future."
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Post by kathryn on Oct 25, 2016 15:33:55 GMT
Via Lyn Gardner "The message is clear: the Globe is not really a theatre but part of the heritage industry and a plaything for academic researchers. This is such an overreaction (though of course just the sort of sensationalist angle you expect from the Gruan). As if it wasn't producing excellent theatre (at times) under previous ADs.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Oct 25, 2016 15:36:26 GMT
Kathryn, read Lyn's article. It makes perfect sense when read in context.
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Post by kathryn on Oct 25, 2016 15:37:49 GMT
The RSC ? Why should their useless board get involved ? The RSC were entirely responsible for the Globe's success actually according to Greg Doran "When the RSC left London the felling of that great oak enabled smaller saplings to grow towards the light ..." I see Rylance has condemned the RSC recently and said he'll not work there again, for sure he'll be on board when you march on the Globe. Greg Doran, RSC executive director Catherine Mallyon and deputy artistic director Erica Whyman have issued a joint statement: "We are dismayed and disappointed to hear the news of Emma Rice’s departure from Shakespeare’s Globe. Emma is a vital force in British theatre and we have found her artistic programme, her productions and her spirit to be genuinely innovative and wonderfully refreshing. She has been a long-time collaborator with the RSC and is a bold, thoughtful and generous theatre artist who has always placed the audience at the heart of her work. "It is a great shame that her energy and thrilling new approach will now not be given the time and support it takes for any new artistic direction to be fully realised and understood. We look forward very much to working with Emma again in the future." It looks rather like they're now angling for Rice to come and work for them!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 15:40:30 GMT
Fair play to them, whyever not? No matter the specific circumstances, it can't be easy for anyone to lose a job so soon into a tenure, and any display of solidarity will no doubt be welcomed by Rice, even if it doesn't later turn into a job offer.
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Post by ldm2016 on Oct 25, 2016 15:40:51 GMT
The RSC ? Why should their useless board get involved ? The RSC were entirely responsible for the Globe's success actually according to Greg Doran "When the RSC left London the felling of that great oak enabled smaller saplings to grow towards the light ..." I see Rylance has condemned the RSC recently and said he'll not work there again, for sure he'll be on board when you march on the Globe. Greg Doran, RSC executive director Catherine Mallyon and deputy artistic director Erica Whyman have issued a joint statement: "We are dismayed and disappointed to hear the news of Emma Rice’s departure from Shakespeare’s Globe. Emma is a vital force in British theatre and we have found her artistic programme, her productions and her spirit to be genuinely innovative and wonderfully refreshing. She has been a long-time collaborator with the RSC and is a bold, thoughtful and generous theatre artist who has always placed the audience at the heart of her work. "It is a great shame that her energy and thrilling new approach will now not be given the time and support it takes for any new artistic direction to be fully realised and understood. We look forward very much to working with Emma again in the future." .
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Post by ldm2016 on Oct 25, 2016 15:42:45 GMT
Good! After his awful Much Ado About Nothing I'm glad I'll never have to endure him in Stratford again... Rylance ? Missed it. He did it with a Northern Irish accent ? He was the director... My other-half and I spotted him in the bar at the Wyndhams recently and she had to stop me for going other to tell him what I thought of it!
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Post by oxfordsimon on Oct 25, 2016 15:44:13 GMT
Greg Doran, RSC executive director Catherine Mallyon and deputy artistic director Erica Whyman have issued a joint statement: "We are dismayed and disappointed to hear the news of Emma Rice’s departure from Shakespeare’s Globe. Emma is a vital force in British theatre and we have found her artistic programme, her productions and her spirit to be genuinely innovative and wonderfully refreshing. She has been a long-time collaborator with the RSC and is a bold, thoughtful and generous theatre artist who has always placed the audience at the heart of her work. "It is a great shame that her energy and thrilling new approach will now not be given the time and support it takes for any new artistic direction to be fully realised and understood. We look forward very much to working with Emma again in the future." It looks rather like they're now angling for Rice to come and work for them! That didn't work well for them last time. That production was not well-loved.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Oct 25, 2016 15:58:31 GMT
Kathryn, read Lyn's article. It makes perfect sense when read in context. Yes, picked out the most annoyed but, the rest of the article is a much more surgical attack. Another article, this from Matt Trueman at our old home. "Make no mistake: this isn't an argument about electric lighting and amplification, whatever the Globe board says. It's much deeper than that. It's about who gets to make Shakespeare, for whom and how. If we insist on doing things as they've always been done – and what's original practice if not that – nothing will change. We'll get the same people making the same theatre for the same audiences forever." WOS article
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Oct 25, 2016 16:04:45 GMT
....why do people insist on putting pressure on the established theatres to stage productions aimed at and staring minority groups who never attend in their masses? .......
Worth just pointing this sentence out and what people like Rice are really up against. The audience at MND and Imogen were pretty much that audience and now they've been sent a very clear message.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 16:15:30 GMT
Oh god, can you imagine staging productions aimed at and starring the majority groups who are always there? Do we HONESTLY want nothing but posh white people declaiming Shakespeare in short trousers? It's nice sometimes but I'd die of boredom if it were ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME.
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Post by ldm2016 on Oct 25, 2016 16:21:24 GMT
Oh god, can you imagine staging productions aimed at and starring the majority groups who are always there? Do we HONESTLY want nothing but posh white people declaiming Shakespeare in short trousers? It's nice sometimes but I'd die of boredom if it were ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME. I agree and that's not the point I am making.
We have plenty of fringe theatres without putting ridiculous pressure on the established theatres to conform to other's opinions of what they should be doing.
Hip-Hop Shakespeare? Not for me, but if it's that popular there will be PLENTY of theatres willing to stage it so why put pressure on The Globe or The National?
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Post by cirque on Oct 25, 2016 16:29:37 GMT
Many years ago Michael Bogdanov was sick and fed up of the RSC way of doing Shakespeare and the restrictions.He,with Michael Pennington set up the ESC.Radical and loved by so many-I hope Emma Rice sets in motion a radical alternative to every house that believes it has the right to own Shakespeare.Maybe its a further Kneehigh development but her mission has to continue.ESC challenged the RSC and made them sit up and take note.......its a fascinating study in territory and belonging of Shakespeare.If you are not one of us keep out.....
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Post by theatreliker on Oct 25, 2016 16:32:28 GMT
If her work has received critical and box office acclaim I can't see why they wanted rid of her. Perhaps they had an increase in new audience members but a significant drop in members/ regulars and were worried about donations?
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Post by Jan on Oct 25, 2016 16:34:58 GMT
Rylance ? Missed it. He did it with a Northern Irish accent ? He was the director... My other-half and I spotted him in the bar at the Wyndhams recently and she had to stop me for going other to tell him what I thought of it! Oh right. He also appeared in it for RSC and was well-reviewed.
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Post by grit on Oct 25, 2016 16:38:50 GMT
Although it feels somewhat mean-spirited to celebrate someone being out of a job, I'm utterly delighted! We've celebrated all afternoon! And now I hope Shakespeare's Globe returns to its original remit.
The argument that this is 'old white male vs kick-ass woman' does not address the mismatch of artistic vision. Personally, I couldn't care whether Rice is gender bended or sky-blue-pink. The issue of male/female approach is a non-starter for me. The Rice vision for the Globe was not in sympathy even with its basic architecture.
The argument that 'all the performances looked the same' at the Globe before Rice is, frankly, odd. I don't recall performances all looking the same at all. We attended for years, and we were always struck with how versatile was the stage. It was utterly eye-opening to me that a simple wooden space could become so adaptable and flexible.
The idea that plays at the Globe will 'go back to being dusty' is astonishing. When Shakespeare's Globe first opened, its vision was astoundingly adventurous and unique. It was a beacon of orginality. Where else was offering this approach the performance? Who else was offering actors the opportunity to create a production alongside the audience? I cannot recall another theatre being so bold in striking out into such a unique direction. The fact that the Globe's startling approach became so quickly naturalised into the theatrescape shows you how right the Globe originally got it.
The light and sound system was a disaster. Noise and trashy flash took precedence over the words spoken by the actors. I can't forgive that moment in Macbeth when Banquo couldn't be heard thanks to the screechy noises. Are people seriously defending the use of amplified sounds and disco lights at the Globe?
Rice is clearly a high-flying director with vision, and I feel annoyed to be positioned as someone who would also claim that she is not up to the job. She is clearly a capable director. Just Not At The Globe. Shakespeare's Globe has a unique space and invites a form of audience participation which makes sense of the scripts that are spoken in it. Rice simply failed to respect the scripts or treat them as if they mattered.
Oh gosh, the scripts! Well, perhaps here I'm going to have to swing punches. I believe, not in the purity of the scripts, but how they can guide an actor to an interpretation. I really have to question why we should dump those scripts without very good reason. I find it breathtakingly ignorant to treat the target market of theatre-goers as if they can't possibly follow Shakespeare, that the language is so much like 'medicine' that it must be expelled. Unforgiveable.
Finally, the Globe has an international reputation, and this has to be significant in bringing back an authentic vision. We've had people travel half-way round the world to be with us and we've taken them to Shakespeare's Globe - because they've heard that this is The Only Theatre in the World to see 'authentic' Shakespeare. Sure, you can dismiss them all as 'tourists', but remember that many of these visitors are your Shakespeare enthusiasts who would go to any and all versions of every play - but they will develop a loyalty to one place which they see as offering a unique experience. So why would they travel to the Globe to see Rice's Midsummer when they can see an interpretation done with more glitz, pizzazz, and glamour put on in Hong Kong?
Yes, the board does need to keep control of what happens next. Appointing someone who said they didn't much like Shakespeare was asking for trouble. I'm a little worried about what the board will do next after this wobble, so I hope someone with a clear head is helping make decisions.
Phew, I've got that lot off my chest. Thanks for reading, folks.
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Post by cirque on Oct 25, 2016 16:50:08 GMT
this is rational and well thought through.I,too,have many memories of adventure at the Globe and thrills a plenty.....maybe Lucy Bailey will apply.Her Titus was experiment and honest.
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Xanderl
Member
Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Oct 25, 2016 16:50:33 GMT
I've been pretty vocal here that I didn't like what Emma Rice was doing to the place and that her first season didn't appeal to me so I didn't go to anything for the first time in years. But ...
1. Fairly confident that any new AD of any theatre has outraged a vocal set of fans of the previous regime(s) with their first season - (eg Greg Doran, Vicky Featherstone, Josie Rourke, Michael Grandage, Kevin Spacey, Rufus Norris, I could go on!) - and faced calls for their sacking. But given the chance to bed in their new style things settle down. And maybe they lose some of the old audience, but they gain a new one.
2. I recognise that not everything has to appeal to me
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Post by PalelyLaura on Oct 25, 2016 17:11:30 GMT
Brilliant post, grit.
Incidentally, the Globe HAS had hip-hop Shakespeare before - Othello: The Remix performed as part of the Globe to Globe Festival in 2012. It was brilliant. The differences are that 1. it wasn't a permanent part of the theatre's programming, pushing out the kind of show for which the Globe was designed and b. although there was a modern sound system on the stage, the "shared lighting" policy still applied.
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