9 posts
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Post by stitcher on Oct 25, 2016 12:14:42 GMT
Left at interval I'm afraid. Actor playing Salieri didn't carry it enough for me and made it seem interminable. Wanted to do a Julie Walters Piecrust Players "drop the Italian, it's not coming over"... Didn't mind the annoying Mozart (that's the point, surely?), and the wife's characterisation made sense to me - though all the characterisations seemed pretty one-dimensional...
Lovely playing, though they took the serenade at a lick so the relevant bits referred to in the text had already gone by. And I really enjoyed the club orchestration of the New Year's party. Great staging, particularly at end of Act 1 - I get the whole Amadeus as punk thing (pink DMs, etc), but getting a bit tired of seeing 18th Century on stage as influenced by Westwood and Galliano. If you're going to reinterpret the period, do something new.
There were many aspects I enjoyed in terms of staging and the music, but I'm sorry to say I was bored at points, and not interested enough to return. Half a review!
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1,936 posts
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Post by wickedgrin on Oct 25, 2016 14:24:06 GMT
A very "mixed bag" of a production for me. Clearly a packed house had come to see a great play and it is. This is not a "great" production though although it did have some stunning moments.
It was wonderful to hear the music played live by an orchestra who were used very cleverly throughout with some stunning tableau sequences especially at the end of Act 1 but also there were some really clumsy shuffling on and off with chairs and music stands which was really messy - which sums up the "mixed bag" description of the production. They clearly had tidied these up though as the show came down at 10.25 even after a slightly late start - so clearly things have been tightened up since first previews.
I was unsure of the modern dress elements, mainly at the start and end of the show. The entire cast at the end dressed in modern dress for the curtain call (almost ready to walk straight out of the stage door) with the exception of Salieri and Mozart. The orchestra dressed in black modern dress throughout. Some stunning staging and then less successful scenes.
Performance wise I thought Mozart (Adam Gillen) and Constanze (his wife - Karl Crome currently seen in ITV's The Level) were superb. Less taken with Lucian Msamati as Salieri - small in stature and for me he did not have the vocal power to thrill in the role. So again a "mixed bag". The rest of the cast unfortunately have little to do.
Needless to say it was a very "NT" production with a massive cast and orchestra with gorgeous period costumes and shoes etc. which a commercial management can only dream of. Every resource thrown at it.
So a very "different" production - not without it's merits and I enjoyed most of it, but not without flaws for me. It will be interesting to see what the critics make of it.
A packed house gave it a warm reception with a few people standing but I got the impression that most people struggled with the length and were anxious to get home.
On an aside note I loathe the National Theatre itself - it takes AGES to get out of the Olivier theatre!
3.5 stars for me.
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5,596 posts
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Post by lynette on Oct 25, 2016 19:30:43 GMT
I didn't have my badge but was in the circle, came down to the stalls for the interval, you wasn't eating an apple in the interval was you? Nah, no apple. I was standing up,trying to stretch legs. Sorry we missed each other
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5,596 posts
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Post by lynette on Oct 25, 2016 19:32:40 GMT
Left at interval I'm afraid. Actor playing Salieri didn't carry it enough for me and made it seem interminable. Wanted to do a Julie Walters Piecrust Players "drop the Italian, it's not coming over"... Didn't mind the annoying Mozart (that's the point, surely?), and the wife's characterisation made sense to me - though all the characterisations seemed pretty one-dimensional... Lovely playing, though they took the serenade at a lick so the relevant bits referred to in the text had already gone by. And I really enjoyed the club orchestration of the New Year's party. Great staging, particularly at end of Act 1 - I get the whole Amadeus as punk thing (pink DMs, etc), but getting a bit tired of seeing 18th Century on stage as influenced by Westwood and Galliano. If you're going to reinterpret the period, do something new. There were many aspects I enjoyed in terms of staging and the music, but I'm sorry to say I was bored at points, and not interested enough to return. Half a review! Pity, it actually got better after the interval I thought. The Italian accent thing, yes, hmm, maybe problematic but it made him an outsider in the Viennese court.
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2 posts
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Post by willonthebill on Oct 26, 2016 8:36:20 GMT
I'm due to see the show tomorrow night but I'm currently struck down with a terrible cough. This sounds like an odd question, but is there a lot of music/noise underscoring the show generally? Or any applause breaks in Act 1? If it's very quiet dialogue scenes and I need to cough, I don't want to be a distraction. I was at Ragtime last night, which meant I could have a little cough now and then in applause breaks and not disturb anyone. (weird question I know!)
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1,936 posts
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Post by wickedgrin on Oct 26, 2016 8:59:51 GMT
No applause breaks and a very quiet attentive audience on Monday evening. Lots of dialogue and the orchestra is not over amplified. Sorry, so you might struggle.
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371 posts
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Post by popcultureboy on Oct 26, 2016 9:25:58 GMT
So I saw this last night. Missing the Sheen & Suchet revival at the Old Vic years back is one of my big theatre regrets and so I was hopeful this revival would do something to ease my regret. But nope. It was....a disappointing evening. I lay the majority of the blame on Michael Longhurst, whose direction manages to be fussy, elaborate, clumsy, uncertain and intrusive all at the same time.
So, Salieri. Was it an Italian accent? He went super Italian whenever he said the name Mozart or was actually speaking Italian, but the rest of the time, no. His performance was mostly very one note, there was no charm, charisma, slyness, nothing. He got a little grief stricken in two overlong scenes at the end of each act, but other than that, his performance was the same flat line throughout. Unlike Gillen's take on the title character. Here, I can only imagine Longhurst's direction was "imagine you're Su Pollard dressed by Vivienne Westwood". I know he's meant to be childish and annoying, but ONLY to the people ON the stage, not the 1000 or so people sitting looking AT the stage. Tellingly, when he's conducting the orchestra, I really enjoyed watching him, he has a great physicality in those scenes. But every time he opened his mouth, I pretty much wanted to stab myself in the ear. In a surprise to nobody who's seen him in anything before ever, Tom Edden quietly steals every scene he is in.
And then there's the play. Criminally, I am going to say I don't think it has aged well. There are whole chunks of poorly shoehorned in exposition (and those two narrators were both VERY bad at delivering it) at the expense of any depth of character. A few times I thought "I'd rather read a book about Mozart than sit through this". And to give a play which clunks as often as this a staging which, well, clunks quite often, it doesn't make for the most enjoyable of times. The odd opening, with the pointed use of iPhones and half hearted modern touches like Krispy Kremes, and the seemingly endless repeating of "Salieri, Salieri", the bizarre dance versions of Mozart's music, the orchestra constantly milling about the place, wandering off and on, sometimes laying down for no reason at all, it made for a confusing, incoherent evening that was mostly dull.
Undoubtedly, it'll get 5 star raves tomorrow.
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227 posts
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Post by barelyathletic on Oct 26, 2016 10:17:25 GMT
Quite looking forward to seeing this next week. Amadeus was one of the first plays I saw in London as a student, with the late great Frank Finlay and Richard O'Callaghan as Salieri and Mozart. It made a vast impression on a 17 year-old, lapsed catholic gay boy. The problem with Shaffer's plays though is that their original productions were so iconic it's very difficult for any revival to get away from them. It looks (and sounds on here) as if the NT is at least trying to not replicate that great original, but in doing so they run the risk of it just not being very good. Worried that this might be the case, but, as it's now such a very long time since I saw that production, I'm hoping it might have something of the same effect if done with a fresh approach. Probably it will just be a glimmer of the original, but then the other half has never seen it on stage. It will be interesting to see what he thinks.
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2,452 posts
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Post by theatremadness on Oct 26, 2016 15:25:46 GMT
At Press Night tonight. I'm not special, was just at the right place & right time when Entry Pass tickets went on sale. Front row, too! Will keep an eye out for famous folk. Still excited to see it after some not-so-promising reviews on here, as it's still a play I'm really interested in seeing and I wasn't around when the original production was. Also doubly excited as I've been hooked on The Level on ITV, too!
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2,452 posts
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Post by theatremadness on Oct 26, 2016 19:32:48 GMT
Interval. I really am enjoying it immensely, but I've no other production to compare it too. The language of the play is so beautiful, so delicious. And it's being performed superbly, in my novice opinion. Orchestra are GLORIOUS.
Rufus Norris & Nicholas Hytner appeared on stage before the play began to speak about Peter Shaffer not being alive to see this production, and to both pay their respects to Howard Davies, who received a prolonged applause, and standing ovation from a few.
Can't wait to Act 2 now.
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Post by Honoured Guest on Oct 26, 2016 23:58:24 GMT
They should have invited Peter Hall to shout in his dementia that tonight's production was dreadful and that his own was better.
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3,481 posts
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Post by showgirl on Oct 27, 2016 4:12:34 GMT
Undoubtedly, it'll get 5 star raves tomorrow. Perceptive prediction: Libby Purves (Theatrecat) has indeed rated it 5 and Ian Foster (Thereoughttobeclowns) has raved about it. Has it been transformed during previews or is it just a matter of taste? Having seen the Chichester production only late last year, I really wasn't anticipating the need to see another but am now wondering...
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Post by Jan on Oct 27, 2016 6:27:02 GMT
They should have invited Peter Hall to shout in his dementia that tonight's production was dreadful and that his own was better. Cemented your place as the Frankie Boyle of the board with that one, but without the sense of humour or (I assume) the beard.
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816 posts
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Post by stefy69 on Oct 27, 2016 6:29:18 GMT
Was looking forward to seeing this but now not so sure.
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Post by theatremad on Oct 27, 2016 10:28:24 GMT
OK so I saw this last night on Press Night (owing to a stroke of luck where two Friday Rush came back in the morning).
I'm going to go against the wind and say I loved this to bits, thought both Salieri and Mozart were superb and was transfixed by the staging. The moments of choral singing (especially the Requiem) left me a sobbing wreck combined with the words especially the Lacrimosa. This by no means is detrimental to the Opera sections which sent shivers up my spine.
The Ventecilli were believable, the court was excellent and the orchestra were fab.
My only small quip are the 'dance' versions of two pieces.
Yes, listen to all views, but go and make your own opinion as this is a marmite show.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 11:08:51 GMT
The Stage - 5* Standard - 4* Guardian - 4* WoS - 4*
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Post by alexandra on Oct 27, 2016 11:50:09 GMT
5 stars from Libby Purves too. Just a handful of people here who didn't like it in preview, it seems.
I haven't seen it yet. But Msamati is one of our greatest actors, IMHO.
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Post by theatremadness on Oct 27, 2016 12:06:03 GMT
Well I just loved this. It's long, and you start to feel it a little in Act 2, but it's absolutely gorgeous. The language is so beautiful, so dense and delicious, and it's delivered and performed here superbly by all, not least in the incredible contrasting central performances of Msamati and Gillen. Msamati can more than hold the Olivier in the palm of his hand, having as all laugh out loud or as quiet as mice. Gillen is a grotesque and irritating Mozart, and totally captivating. He errs completely on the right side of a caricature of a real person, giving him the exact right amount of humanity to make him believable. Other stand outs for me were Karla Crome as Contanze & Tom Edden as Joseph II.
The look is gorgeous, costume & lighting are sumptuous, the Southbank Sinfonia and the singers are just sensational.
Don't know if I'd stretch to a full 5*, but 4* without hesitation.
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587 posts
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Post by Polly1 on Oct 27, 2016 13:30:34 GMT
Telegraph 5*
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Post by barelyathletic on Oct 27, 2016 13:41:59 GMT
5 stars from Libby Purves too. Just a handful of people here who didn't like it in preview, it seems.
I haven't seen it yet. But Msamati is one of our greatest actors, IMHO. Agreed. He's been wonderful in everything I've seen him in, so was taken aback at the negative responses here. Obviously shaping it in previews I think (which is what they are for). Can't wait now.
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716 posts
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Post by theatre-turtle on Oct 27, 2016 15:44:50 GMT
I notice the runtime on the site has been cut to 3 hours. I wonder what the 20 minutes they cut were
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3,481 posts
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Post by showgirl on Oct 27, 2016 17:11:46 GMT
I'm sure it was nowhere near as long in Chichester; wonder what has made such a difference this time?
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Post by Honoured Guest on Oct 27, 2016 17:25:56 GMT
Brexit.
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Post by wickedgrin on Oct 27, 2016 19:47:27 GMT
I'm sure it was nowhere near as long in Chichester; wonder what has made such a difference this time? It wasn't as long in Chichester. I could not work out why this production was so lengthy other than some of the transitions between scenes were sluggish getting the orchestra on and off. The running time may shorten as the run progresses. As usual the critics have gone overboard with 4 and 5 stars for this. The production certainly had it's moments - the staging at the end of Act One for example and hearing the music played live for the first time in any production to my knowledge was great but some odd directing choices and generally a cluttered production I thought.
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371 posts
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Post by popcultureboy on Oct 27, 2016 22:36:37 GMT
5 stars from Libby Purves too. Just a handful of people here who didn't like it in preview, it seems.
I haven't seen it yet. But Msamati is one of our greatest actors, IMHO. Agreed. He's been wonderful in everything I've seen him in, so was taken aback at the negative responses here. Obviously shaping it in previews I think (which is what they are for). Can't wait now. I went to the final preview and, as mentioned in my earlier post, that his outbursts of grief aside, I found his performance VERY one note, completely lacking in any kind of charisma or charm (devious or otherwise). Not surprised by the reviews. More and more lately I find my opinion is very out of step with the critics and I figured that would be the case here.
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Post by Snciole on Oct 28, 2016 9:00:57 GMT
At the risk of sounding a bit tin foil hat I do think a combination of the NT (Rufus) being too big to fail, the busted up drum, the bold decision to have a black leading man (who isn't a household name) and the author of the piece dying recently means this was never going slated however bad it was. Despite my ranting it definitely had 4 star potential but the NT never gets taken to task over bad productions. Damned by Despair still got three stars!
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Post by wickedgrin on Oct 28, 2016 9:38:38 GMT
I didn't even dare mention the colour blind casting initially. It's fine if the characters are fictional but when the characters depict historical figures it becomes rather tiresome. Mozart's wife was not black (although I thought the actress was very good in the role). You can only imagine the fuss if Martin Luther King was played on stage by a white actor. It is great that black actors are getting more exposure in contemporary work and in musicals such as In the Heights, Memphis etc. but in this it is just unnecessary. The two Venticellis were also black - the males performance was appalling.
I will now take to my bunker to avoid the incoming missiles of politically correct posts.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 9:44:50 GMT
I mean, we don't *need* to imagine the fuss if a white actor were to play Martin Luther King, someone did actually try that not so very long ago. Of course, the difference is that almost any narrative concerning Martin Luther King will by its very nature be *about* race, whereas Amadeus is a slightly more universal tale that has literally nothing to do with the colour of anybody's skin. If we can colour-blind cast Shakespeare's Histories, we can colour-blind cast Amadeus, after all it's about as based in true historical fact as the Shakespeare. Enjoy your bunker, but one might suggest that if one isn't so interested in having a discussion, then maybe there could be steps taken that aren't, I don't know, posting on a discussion board.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 28, 2016 9:49:14 GMT
I don't think wickedgrin has quite understood the concept of colour-blind casting.
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Post by Snciole on Oct 28, 2016 10:06:21 GMT
I think the casting works in Amadeus, Saileri is an outsider-an Italian in an Austrian court and Msamati is, for the most part, an outsider on the stage. I am still of the belief (and maybe as a mixed race person I notice it more) that parts aren't written for black people in the way they have been for white so we need to come along and claim the good ones. Most modern writing is colour blind. I think Linda at the Royal Court is a great example of this and that is why the last minute casting change worked. It is no more offensive than English accented people in Macbeth.
I have absolutely no time for "What about if whites did it" argument. They have and if the actor is good enough I have no problem with it but I doubt they have the urge to play black roles when they have so many roles for Caucasian actors at their disposal.
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