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Post by sf on Nov 7, 2017 18:55:30 GMT
Have you ever heard clips of Millicent Martin singing Follies? It's not an experience I would recommend... Jan Maxwell was very good too. Yes I have. And I actually saw her. No, not necessarily her greatest performance - but as a singer, she's still in a different league from Alexis Smith or Lee Remick. Jan Maxwell has the voice, but (on the basis of the recording) seems to misunderstand the character. If you start off angry as Phyllis, there's nowhere left to go. On the recording, at least, Maxwell's performance is far too one-note. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 7, 2017 19:02:36 GMT
I have no problem with the leading characters in Follies having less than stellar voices - as long as their younger versions do. Part of the point of the show is the way things have changed since the glory days. The theatre has decayed and so have the former performers. So worrying about the high notes in Beautiful Girls - that works. He used to be able to do it - now he is far less secure. That is the way voices age.
It works within the context of the piece to have people who are absolutely right for the role - but if their voices are not what they once were, that fits with the themes of aging, change and decay.
Of course, you still have to enjoy their overall performances - but it isn't a piece for vocal pyrotechnics. You need the emotion more.
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524 posts
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Follies
Nov 7, 2017 19:39:36 GMT
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Post by callum on Nov 7, 2017 19:39:36 GMT
For the record I like Bernadette's Losing My Mind.
And I think Elaine's I'm Still Here (Stritch, not Paige), is the definitive.
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2,012 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Nov 7, 2017 20:41:58 GMT
For the record I like Bernadette's Losing My Mind. And I think Elaine's I'm Still Here (Stritch, not Paige), is the definitive. Just tried watched a performance by Stritch upon your recommendation. Terrible off key vocal. I'll stick with Paige. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 7, 2017 21:05:12 GMT
But you can hear the struggle in Stritch's voice, the pain, the life well (and not so well) lived. It is visceral and real rather than a performance of a big song (which is what I get from Ms Paige)
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524 posts
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Post by callum on Nov 7, 2017 21:49:16 GMT
Just singing that song well into her 80s will all of that life and history behind her is more important than any vocal perfection. Even the video of when she sings it at the White House for President Obama and loses her timing and has to start over is something special. A true classy broad. (imo)
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524 posts
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Post by callum on Nov 7, 2017 21:55:49 GMT
As a point of interest can anyone explain the line 'I lived through Barbara Walters' that Stritch often sings - presumably not what Sondheim wrote in the 70s. Is it just an affectation that Stritch, or someone else added? I don't recall Tracie B singing it in the current production but I could be wrong.
Also, Sondheim's writing of the song so long ago wouldn't fit with the theory that it's about Joan Crawford since Mommie Dearest wasn't until 1980? Just interested in the history of the song.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 22:22:26 GMT
The original lyric refers to Brenda Frazier, the alternative lyric as sung in this production is Shirley Temple. Stritch said that Barbara Walters was her addition because she'd sung it when Walters was in the audience, so that's a non-Sondheim change.
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913 posts
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Follies
Nov 7, 2017 23:17:27 GMT
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Post by karloscar on Nov 7, 2017 23:17:27 GMT
Joan Crawford's story would've been well known long before Mommy Dearest was published, never mind the movie. Carole Burnett's I'm Still Here gets all the shifts in mood within the lyric very well, and keeps it in character better than anyone else, and her "I had a Follies number..." intro always makes me laugh.
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524 posts
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Post by callum on Nov 8, 2017 0:21:36 GMT
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Follies
Nov 8, 2017 7:59:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 7:59:48 GMT
This is such a weird one for me, because I enjoyed it when I saw it, but in hindsight, I think if it weren't for the cast, I don't know if id enjoy it as much as I did. The production and cast were so amazing, but I think the material and book kinda mould into one, I cannot remember a song rather than Tracies song for example! And we all know that song!  |
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2,012 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Nov 8, 2017 8:07:34 GMT
As a point of interest can anyone explain the line 'I lived through Barbara Walters' that Stritch often sings - presumably not what Sondheim wrote in the 70s. Is it just an affectation that Stritch, or someone else added? I don't recall Tracie B singing it in the current production but I could be wrong. Also, Sondheim's writing of the song so long ago wouldn't fit with the theory that it's about Joan Crawford since Mommie Dearest wasn't until 1980? Just interested in the history of the song. Well, that's what he told EP in 2011 when she discussed the song at great length with him. |
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2,012 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Nov 8, 2017 8:09:05 GMT
But you can hear the struggle in Stritch's voice, the pain, the life well (and not so well) lived. It is visceral and real rather than a performance of a big song (which is what I get from Ms Paige)
There's fine line between visceral and "nails-down-a-blackboard" in my experience....
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490 posts
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Follies
Nov 8, 2017 8:49:28 GMT
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Post by bimse on Nov 8, 2017 8:49:28 GMT
I watched a video on YouTube of Elaine Paige performing “I’m still here” in the American production she did. I thought it was dreadful , didn’t suit her at all, and her actions were noticeably repetitive , eying people up and down on the words “and I’m here” .
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Post by karloscar on Nov 8, 2017 9:29:42 GMT
Paige really didn't get it at all. She never gets below the surface showstopper to the interior monologue where the character reveals more than she intends to.
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Post by lonlad on Nov 8, 2017 12:41:19 GMT
You're only NOW discovering that Paige can't act??? The woman has had a very very lucky career.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 13:55:04 GMT
What kind of insanity is this? Elaine Paige is THE FIRST LADY OF BRITISH MUSICAL THEATRE.
Clearly someone doubting her acting ability didn't see her star turn in Agatha Christie's 'A Murder Is Announced'. Even Zoë Wanamaker looked humbled to be sharing screen time with her.
Can't act indeed.
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5,154 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Nov 8, 2017 14:00:02 GMT
If EP can't act then her forthcoming sit-com with Johnny Vegas is going to make for some pretty difficult viewing!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 14:13:17 GMT
What is there about a sitcom starring Johnny Vegas and Elaine Paige that suggests it's going to be *easy* viewing?
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490 posts
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Follies
Nov 8, 2017 14:33:55 GMT
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Post by bimse on Nov 8, 2017 14:33:55 GMT
If EP can't act then her forthcoming sit-com with Johnny Vegas is going to make for some pretty difficult viewing! A sit-com with Elaine Paige and Johnny Vegas ? This is a joke ? Please? Anyone? You’ll be telling me next Sherrie Hewson is in it too . |
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5,154 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Nov 8, 2017 14:41:30 GMT
If EP can't act then her forthcoming sit-com with Johnny Vegas is going to make for some pretty difficult viewing! A sit-com with Elaine Paige and Johnny Vegas ? This is is a joke ? Please? Anyone? You’ll be telling me next Sherrie Hewson is in it too . Let's hope it's a joke. That's the general idea with sit-coms, though the BBC doesn't have much form of late!! It's called Home From Home. She plays his mother. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 14:48:06 GMT
If EP can't act then her forthcoming sit-com with Johnny Vegas is going to make for some pretty difficult viewing! A sit-com with Elaine Paige and Johnny Vegas ? This is a joke ? Please? Anyone? You’ll be telling me next Sherrie Hewson is in it too . There was a pilot of it earlier this year starring Vegas with Emilia Fox, Adam James and Joanna Page. The First Lady of British Musical Theatre will appear as a new character of Vegas' mother. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 14:49:56 GMT
Don't knòw if its been put on here, but Imelda and Peter will be doing their talk at the National on December 11th, and Tracie and Josephine will be talking on December 18th.  |
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490 posts
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Post by bimse on Nov 8, 2017 14:51:09 GMT
A sit-com with Elaine Paige and Johnny Vegas ? This is is a joke ? Please? Anyone? You’ll be telling me next Sherrie Hewson is in it too . Let's hope it's a joke. That's the general idea with sit-coms, though the BBC doesn't have much form of late!! It's called Home From Home. She plays his mother. Obviously a product of the BBCs Way Ahead Group as part of their More of Less initiative . Yes, exactly ! Reference : W1A |
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Post by paplazaroo on Nov 8, 2017 15:16:08 GMT
I saw this last night and thought it was incredible. It cleverly captures the pathos and essence of regret and love with tangible sadness, it's just such a bold and brilliant piece, really moved me far more than any formulaically structured commercial musical can.
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