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Post by kathryn on Sept 23, 2016 12:32:12 GMT
Hilary ain't a saint - what politician is? - but if you're going to choose between the two candidates based purely on objective measures of their personal integrity, then she wins by a country mile. I don't know whether that's actually going to make any difference to the American public, though. Honestly, I think the world might be f***ed. Hillary scores zero on personal integrity. Smearing and silencing the hoards of women her husband used while professing to be a feminist, lying to bereaved parents over Benghazi, saving tens of thousands of government emails, many top secret, on a personal server at risk of hacking, running a charitable foundation where 70% of the money is siphoned off into "administration" charges to pay herself and her family and associates, Whitewater, etc etc. Hard to know where to stop. But compared to Trump, she's still a beacon of personal integrity. |
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Post by 49thand8th on Sept 23, 2016 12:55:41 GMT
As one of Clinton's most outspoken supporters, Ellen Degeneres didn't do Clinton any favo(u)rs (correct spelling thank you) when she appeared recently on the BBC light news programme The One Show - when talking about Clinton she said "hey, she's got Bill to help her". I swear my mouth dropped open. WTF? Well probably not as according to Hillary's friend General Colin Powell, in his amusing emails recently hacked, Bill is "still dicking bimbos at home". I suppose Hillary still arranges to pay them all off as she has been doing for years. Bill must be unique amongst Presidents in having been accused of rape. What a delightful couple they are. (Sorry for the two-part quote here) Bill must be unique amongst Presidents in having been accused of rape.Let me introduce you to a few presidents who had kids with their slaves! What a delightful couple they are.
Their status as a couple doesn't have much influence over why I'm voting Clinton. I'm also outta this thread! Any other Americans, feel free to take over (or my lead). Trump's gonna try to kill us all anyway even if he loses. |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 13:14:14 GMT
I expect we will see Trump neutralize some of his policies during the debates. Credit has to be given where it is due - the way he has managed this campaign is very smart/deceitful - he started by securing the hard right, what with all of that build a wall nonsense, and now he is trying to secure the voting block who have been dormant for the last 30 years... He's was talking about coal and prying on the heart strings of the "working man" the last time I checked... He has played the media like a game of cards, by saying provocative things to garner mass attention and then addressing the state of the country when everyone tunes in expecting to see him apologize.
Amazing comments above about how people's beliefs can seldom be swayed - I've never really thought of that but it is so true. We all like to live up in the moral high ground... But this whole "you're so racist" "your so homophobic" "you're such a bigot" way of winning an argument (by silencing your opposition) is reaching it's last days. The democrats thought they could tell the world "Trump is racist and hates women" a million times and they'd breeze the election, but it has backfired. Like everyone is saying, this rhetoric is so similar to the Remain campaign. "The world will end" "You are racist if you don't want to be in the EU" etc... It's so disappointing because it makes me apathetic and resentful to the political parties whose policies I most align with...
At the end of the day a positive campaign will always win, that's why I'd put my money on Trump being the next president. I hope Hillary gets back to top health for the debates, those videos of her having a seizure were horrible.
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 13:21:57 GMT
Look at this for example... Just reeling of those left wing buzzwords whilst her audience is treating it like a stand up comedy gig...
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 13:24:56 GMT
Hillary scores zero on personal integrity. Smearing and silencing the hoards of women her husband used while professing to be a feminist, lying to bereaved parents over Benghazi, saving tens of thousands of government emails, many top secret, on a personal server at risk of hacking, running a charitable foundation where 70% of the money is siphoned off into "administration" charges to pay herself and her family and associates, Whitewater, etc etc. Hard to know where to stop. But compared to Trump, she's still a beacon of personal integrity. Integrity? She has changed her beliefs more than a Tudor monarch darling... (Ie: on Gay Marriage and mass incarceration) xxxx |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 23, 2016 13:37:48 GMT
Look at this for example... Just reeling of those left wing buzzwords whilst her audience is treating it like a stand up comedy gig... Hasn't she realised she's insulting the people she needs to vote for her? |
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Post by foxa on Sept 23, 2016 14:18:44 GMT
Hmm....I'm not sure this is the right forum for this topic. And lots and lots of misinformation. The Clinton Foundation has been rated highly by various charity watch organisations (in at least one case getting a cleaner bill than the American Red Cross.) She has an incredible record of supporting women's education; disability rights; healthcare. I know someone in progressive politics in D.C. who says that when they have an issue Hillary or someone from her office gets back to them. Another friend who is a disability activist has years of positive experiences. These are not Wall Street people - just good left-wing people who want to make the world better. It's almost this ridiculous thing where we have to go around saying 'She's not perfect' - of course, she's not perfect. And she's lived a life fully in the public eye for 40 years - something I could not imagine doing. She would also be the first to say she doesn't have the charisma of Obama. But she turns up, she gets things done and no way is there some equivalency between her and Trump. Here's a nice article, you might like to read (it's well-written): www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clintons-concrete-shoes/2016/09/14/eb033ef8-7a90-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html?utm_term=.3d5b316d456d |
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Post by kathryn on Sept 23, 2016 14:29:42 GMT
But compared to Trump, she's still a beacon of personal integrity. Integrity? She has changed her beliefs more than a Tudor monarch darling... (Ie: on Gay Marriage and mass incarceration) xxxx Interesting that you are echoing all of the Trump campaign's main talking points. Are you sure you're not voting for him? Everyone changed their policy on gay marriage - well, apart from the religious right - because that's how mainstream politics works. Policies are changed as public attitudes to them change. The reason why the prospect of Trump winning is so bloody scary is that it would show just what the American public attitude is really like. Clinton's not wrong - a lot of Trump supporters are deplorable, you just have to listen to what they shout at his rallies to understand that. Clinton is gambling that they're a noisy minority and that the silent majority of Americans do not agree and will not want to be associated with them, because - as we've all just said - there's no way they are going to change their minds. We shall see. |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 15:18:32 GMT
Integrity? She has changed her beliefs more than a Tudor monarch darling... (Ie: on Gay Marriage and mass incarceration) xxxx Interesting that you are echoing all of the Trump campaign's main talking points. Are you sure you're not voting for him? Everyone changed their policy on gay marriage - well, apart from the religious right - because that's how mainstream politics works. Policies are changed as public attitudes to them change. The reason why the prospect of Trump winning is so bloody scary is that it would show just what the American public attitude is really like. Clinton's not wrong - a lot of Trump supporters are deplorable, you just have to listen to what they shout at his rallies to understand that. and will not want to be associated with them, because - as we've all just said - there's no way they are going to change their minds. We shall see.
Interesting that you are echoing all of the Trump campaign's main talking points.You're right. Gay marriage and the state of the Black community in America is all Trump talks about. How are either of these a 'main talking point' of his? A mere criticism of one politician is not out of praise for another. Are you sure you're not voting for him?
I'm British (thank god)... Show just what the American public attitude is really like.Is this a random dig at Americans... Why not critique the belief and not the believers? Clinton is gambling that they're a noisy minority and that the silent majority of Americans do not agreeI sort of agree with this, but that's because I'm not American.... Interesting hearing your side of things. Hope you're well XXX |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 15:43:40 GMT
If anyone thinks that voting for this guy is okay, you are beneath contempt. Whether it's because you want to 'send a message', just for laughs or if you are a closet bigot, you are all beneath contempt. There is no equivalence with Clinton who, whilst she may have been beaten by a different candidate, is well behind him in the fields of corruption, lying and so on. No equivalence whatsoever.
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Post by universetipping on Sept 23, 2016 15:51:50 GMT
Look at this for example... Just reeling of those left wing buzzwords whilst her audience is treating it like a stand up comedy gig... Hasn't she realised she's insulting the people she needs to vote for her? She isn't though... Trump voters are never going to vote for Hillary. What she needs to do is get her soft support out and turn it into actual votes. If she does that, she will win. Trump has so little cross over appeal that I just can't see him getting it. Also, do we want to have a reminder of all the groups of people Trump has insulted? People he needs to vote for him? He's an odious racist, a con man and not even a very good business man. I find it laughable that he thinks he will make America safer. He's already being used in terrorist recruitment videos. He is an oaf- a loudmouth, zero manners or dignity and a dearth of relevant experience, making him completely unsuitable for the office. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 23, 2016 16:08:23 GMT
I cannot for the life of me understand how someone can attend church and vote Republican/Conservative.
When 42% of Americans believe that humans used to ride around on the back of Dinosaurs (Jonathan Rayne), then you begin to worry about the people who will vote for Trump,
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 23, 2016 16:30:41 GMT
When 42% of Americans believe that humans used to ride around on the back of Dinosaurs (Jonathan Rayne), then you begin to worry about the people who will vote for Trump, Haha the silly sausages! Everyone knows the cavemen couldn't ride the dinos they were too big to make saddles for, so they invented the wheel instead!  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 17:10:16 GMT
If Trump wins and starts waging war all over the world. I hope Theresa May puts two fingers up to the "special relationship" and leaves him to it.
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Post by missbabs on Sept 23, 2016 18:41:09 GMT
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Post by foxa on Sept 23, 2016 19:18:02 GMT
Well probably not as according to Hillary's friend General Colin Powell, in his amusing emails recently hacked, Bill is "still dicking bimbos at home". I suppose Hillary still arranges to pay them all off as she has been doing for years. Bill must be unique amongst Presidents in having been accused of rape. What a delightful couple they are. (Sorry for the two-part quote here) Bill must be unique amongst Presidents in having been accused of rape.Let me introduce you to a few presidents who had kids with their slaves! What a delightful couple they are.
Their status as a couple doesn't have much influence over why I'm voting Clinton. I'm also outta this thread! Any other Americans, feel free to take over (or my lead). Trump's gonna try to kill us all anyway even if he loses. I'm outta this thread too - don't need to go on here for misrepresentations of Clinton (nor, for that matter, the knee-jerk anti-American stuff - yes, of course, all such idiots...) If you aren't American, I suppose it seems a fun spectator sport, but if you are (or dual) it's too frustrating. It was bad enough trying to explain away Bush as President, but Trump is in a whole other league. Back to the theatre for me. |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 19:43:50 GMT
Interesting hearing everyone's views. Even us Brits are passionate about this election.
And we only once - so far - resorted to calling each others names... Patti vs Bernadette would've been more polarizing me thinks...
XXX
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 19:43:55 GMT
I still cling to the hope that the Trump Presidential campaign will eventually be revealed to have been part of the Dahl 100 celebrations.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 23, 2016 20:10:37 GMT
Take, for example, the success of the BNP in Burnley, I think, on the back of people's assumptions that there were too many asylum seekers in the town. There may have only been barely double figures but how did the liberal elite challenge their concerns? By discussing the real number and allaying fears or by ridicule and labelling people thick and racist? Yep, the second way....
If people have concerns they have concerns and how you deal with them is paramount to electoral success.
Trump will win for the same reason the UK voted Brexit. Self-Righteous liberals.
If anyone thinks that voting for this guy is okay, you are beneath contempt. Whether it's because you want to 'send a message', just for laughs or if you are a closet bigot, you are all beneath contempt. There is no equivalence with Clinton who, whilst she may have been beaten by a different candidate, is well behind him in the fields of corruption, lying and so on. No equivalence whatsoever. yup! |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 21:02:04 GMT
If anyone thinks that voting for this guy is okay, you are beneath contempt. Whether it's because you want to 'send a message', just for laughs or , you are all beneath contempt. There is no equivalence with Clinton who, whilst she may have been beaten by a different candidate, is well behind him in the fields of corruption, lying and so on. No equivalence whatsoever. I don't think you'd find many closet bigots lurking around on theatre forums - from my experience theatre fans are normally open minded and have their finger on their pulse of popular culture / society years before everyone else... I find Donald Trump's personality disgusting. But he doesn't have a mass of extreme failures (Hillary/Obama's foreign policy which has displaced millions in the East), and a never ending list of crimes stacked up against him. Hillary has had 30 years to prove how loving and caring she can be, instead she decided to pander to Wall Street... Smart move. The legacy of her four years as secretary of state has done her no favors. It depends what you are more saddened by. An orange buffoon satiating his ego and gaining far right support by slagging off Muslims, or foreign policy which has killed 4 million Muslims since 1990. Take your pick.
well behind him in the fields of corruption, lying and so on
This is the most viewed video on YouTube about Hillary... --- Just to tie this up - I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER! I'd just vote for him if I HAD TO... He has flaws galore... |
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Post by vdcni on Sept 23, 2016 21:29:56 GMT
I don't really understand why Clinton is responsible for all these deaths since 1990 when she was only in an actual position of power for 4 years over that time.
And since Trump has never been in that position at all we can only judge on what he says he'll do and for me what he says he'll do is worse than anything Clinton has actually ever done. We are taking about a man who has casually talked about using nuclear weapons multiple times. I'm no fan of US foreign policy either but you have to live in a strange world if you think it will be better under Trump given what less extreme Republicans did last time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 21:51:54 GMT
Take, for example, the success of the BNP in Burnley, I think, on the back of people's assumptions that there were too many asylum seekers in the town. There may have only been barely double figures but how did the liberal elite challenge their concerns? By discussing the real number and allaying fears or by ridicule and labelling people thick and racist? Yep, the second way....
If people have concerns they have concerns and how you deal with them is paramount to electoral success.
Trump will win for the same reason the UK voted Brexit. Self-Righteous liberals.
If anyone thinks that voting for this guy is okay, you are beneath contempt. Whether it's because you want to 'send a message', just for laughs or if you are a closet bigot, you are all beneath contempt. There is no equivalence with Clinton who, whilst she may have been beaten by a different candidate, is well behind him in the fields of corruption, lying and so on. No equivalence whatsoever. yup! I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Sept 23, 2016 21:59:04 GMT
I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. To the earlier poster's point, it gets them to vote Leave. They're not annoyed now, theyre happy. Are you? |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 21:59:31 GMT
I don't really understand why Clinton is responsible for all these deaths since 1990 when she was only in an actual position of power for 4 years over that time. And since Trump has never been in that position at all we can only judge on what he says he'll do and for me what he says he'll do is worse than anything Clinton has actually ever done. We are taking about a man who has casually talked about using nuclear weapons multiple times. I'm no fan of US foreign policy either but you have to live in a strange world if you think it will be better under Trump given what less extreme Republicans did last time. You're right she isn't responsible. But she voted in favor of the Iraq war in 2004 and has accepted huge quantities of money from Muslim countries that don't even allow women to drive a car... And then when she turns up to conventions with all that "the first women president" "changing lives of girls around the world"... To me that is typical career-politician rhetoric. And career politicians caused - or perpetuated - the disastrous foreign policy that has caused those deaths since 1990. If Trump had any power he could have been even worse. However he spoke out against the Iraq war in 2004 and isn't prone to seizures and "frequently fainting". The Republican party hates him. He is an outcast - which is frightening, as we don't have such a documented record of past beliefs. We do with Hillary however. But she has the experience... Maybe that works for or against her... I don't know... Thoughts? XXX |
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Post by whygodwhytoday on Sept 23, 2016 22:07:26 GMT
I find that calling thick and racist people thick and racist tends to get them annoyed. It's a win-win situation. On the other hand I feel sorry for politicians who are supposed to treat them nicely, despite that. I find that putting forward your opinion with points and statements, instead of name calling and generalizing about your opposition, will make you look less bitter and more self-assured. It's nice to know you sympathize with politicians though. So cute. XXX |
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