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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 9:21:56 GMT
Wasnt Trumps whole campaign pretty much mocking and taunting people? People are so desperate to blame the left and the media for how people voted. No, lots of people do not care about anything outside their backyard. Now the press and left will be vilified and it will be oh so easier to slip into fascism.. I wish people would stop using Nazi Germany as their only reference point to "right" wing politics, it is embarrassingly juvenile and displays both arrogance and ignorance. If people are concerned about mass immigration and the negative impact it has on a country they are NOT being racist but have concerns. The most vocal supporters of mass immigration tend to be those who will not be affected by it which is why they need to stop labelling people as racist or stupid but see how they are affected. Likewise, if people are concerned that traditional white communities are being decimated they are NOT being racist (or inverted snobs) but concerned about losing identify and mourning the passing of their background. Why will the looney, "liberal" left never ever learn? If you label people as thick, racist and all manner of derogatory terms you are increasingly galvanising the opinions you find abhorrent because they do not sit well with your self righteous self. Find out why people have opinions, understand what they experience. Why will they happily help someone of different nationality, colour, or religion but not only turn a blind eye to those already living in a country but also condemn then by derogatory accusations and insults? We're in a new era and the loonies brought us here... How ironic that they are still oblivious. WHATEVER mate! the fact I never mentioned Nazi germany in my comment is odd but not as odd as as your concerns over white people being discriminated. Coz they r not. No that's just stupid racist white people being stupid and racist |
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Post by Jan on Nov 10, 2016 10:16:57 GMT
Wasnt Trumps whole campaign pretty much mocking and taunting people? People are so desperate to blame the left and the media for how people voted. No, lots of people do not care about anything outside their backyard. Now the press and left will be vilified and it will be oh so easier to slip into fascism.. I wish people would stop using Nazi Germany as their only reference point to "right" wing politics, it is embarrassingly juvenile and displays both arrogance and ignorance. It is a good point. For example the Nazis in Germany were strongly anti-capitalist, anti-banker, anti-Semitic, and in favour of nationalisation and state control of all key industries including transport and utilities - these are all characteristics of the extreme Momentum left in UK. The charge that Trump has some characteristics of a Fascist leader is somewhat easier to sustain but his policies include some conservative and libertarian-leaning ones that don't fit. |
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Post by kathryn on Nov 10, 2016 10:48:58 GMT
You either believe that racism and xenophobia are bad, and that everyone should have equal opportunity regardless of their race or nationality, or you don't.
A lot of people don't. They implicitly want people like US to do better than people like THEM. They want to be surrounded by people like US. Doesn't really matter what the difference between US and THEM is - race, religion, cultural background, gender, sexuality.
A hell of a lot of the supposed economic anxiety isn't about economic disadvantage at all, it's about people wanting to maintain their economic advantage over THEM.
This is why they can know individual people from the group they are scared of and still hold the view that the group itself is bad - once you know someone, they are one of US, not one of THEM.
There's no point pretending that either Trump or Brexit voters were driven by real economic disadvantage, because voter demographic data show that they are far more driven by fears of immigration than the state of the economy. The income data shows that they're not those who are poorest. They're not the minority - obviously, or they wouldn't be able to swing elections their way.
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 11:05:01 GMT
I wish people would stop using Nazi Germany as their only reference point to "right" wing politics, it is embarrassingly juvenile and displays both arrogance and ignorance. If people are concerned about mass immigration and the negative impact it has on a country they are NOT being racist but have concerns. The most vocal supporters of mass immigration tend to be those who will not be affected by it which is why they need to stop labelling people as racist or stupid but see how they are affected. Likewise, if people are concerned that traditional white communities are being decimated they are NOT being racist (or inverted snobs) but concerned about losing identify and mourning the passing of their background. Why will the looney, "liberal" left never ever learn? If you label people as thick, racist and all manner of derogatory terms you are increasingly galvanising the opinions you find abhorrent because they do not sit well with your self righteous self. Find out why people have opinions, understand what they experience. Why will they happily help someone of different nationality, colour, or religion but not only turn a blind eye to those already living in a country but also condemn then by derogatory accusations and insults? We're in a new era and the loonies brought us here... How ironic that they are still oblivious. WHATEVER mate! the fact I never mentioned Nazi germany in my comment is odd but not as odd as as your concerns over white people being discriminated. Coz they r not. No that's just stupid racist white people being stupid and racist You don't think white people are being discriminated against or at least they are? You are an idiot and part of the reason we are leaving the EU and Trump reigns in America... well done, I hope you're proud of yourself. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 11:14:18 GMT
WHATEVER mate! the fact I never mentioned Nazi germany in my comment is odd but not as odd as as your concerns over white people being discriminated. Coz they r not. No that's just stupid racist white people being stupid and racist You don't think white people are being discriminated against or at least they are? You are an idiot and part of the reason we are leaving the EU and Trump reigns in America... well done, I hope you're proud of yourself. You're embarrassing yourself |
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Post by kathryn on Nov 10, 2016 11:20:05 GMT
WHATEVER mate! the fact I never mentioned Nazi germany in my comment is odd but not as odd as as your concerns over white people being discriminated. Coz they r not. No that's just stupid racist white people being stupid and racist You don't think white people are being discriminated against or at least they are? You are an idiot and part of the reason we are leaving the EU and Trump reigns in America... well done, I hope you're proud of yourself. White people are not being discriminated against. They're really, really not. Every single bit of data there is demonstrates this. White people dominate every field, politically and professionally, and are far likely to be economically comfortable or wealthy. Non-whites are under-represented. |
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 11:23:48 GMT
But there is a rise in racism and hate crime, and a lot of explicitly racist rhetoric around this campaign. That's just objective fact. That the right seem to think that "racism" is just some kind of meaningless trendy buzzword or perspective is bizarre and disturbing. Claiming people who are against racism as "self righteous" and self appointed moral arbiters, ditto. When I was growing up, it was universally understood that racism was a bad thing. Now we live in an era where double talk and arbitrary concepts of "freedom" rule to the point where people calmly put forward racist practices as legitimate belief systems. The attitude seems to be, "I'm allowed to hate black people/Mexicans/immigrants if I want to it's a perfectly valid opinion how dare you call me racist!" But that is the literal definition of racist. As someone who's studied that period of history and the politics of that era intensely, and lost much family in the Holocaust and the Pogroms, there are direct and alarming parallels in terms of specific details between the current situation and the situation in Germany before the war. Especially when it comes to the way the authorities and the 1% manipulating low income whites into believing their enemy is black Americans. This manipulating and pitting people against each other has gone on for centuries. It's similar to the way the British authorities and media try to demonise disabled people - "benefits cheats are stealing YOUR money!" rhetoric. While ignoring that big businesses and people with the highest income steal a thousand times more money in tax evasion. Manipulating the angry disenfranchised into believing their problems are caused by an oppressed minority rather than by the wealthy, power and privileged is the oldest trick in the book. That billionaire super-elite Trump has conned people into thinking he somehow represents or speaks for the common man at least indicates he's got some smarts. There was an apparent rise in racism post Brexit referendum... Ah, except that no police force actually acknowledged a significant rise in race crimes being committed, a graffiteid Polish centre was done so by someone who had been taught how to write in the East according to a hand writing expert and some people even managed to get into The Guardian on the basis that some people "looked at them differently"... Is there racism? Are there racists? I'm not an idiot, of course there are and I certainly won't be defending those on here or in real life. However, I grew up on a very poor, very white council estate but one with an amazing sense of community - when news got around that my Dad had been made redundant in the 80s people actually came and brought shopping around for us. However, now the estate is used as a dumping ground for immigrants who can barely speak English and have no desire to mix in the community. It is now also 65% foreign. Those people who lived there when I did are NOT racist when they speak up about this. Where are idiots like Lilly Allen and Benedict Cumbersome, sorry, Cumberbatch? Why are they happily out there promoting themselves encouraging the powers to be to let in more immigrants when it's people who I grew up with who are the ones affected and they never will be? My family were staunch Labour and I do mean STAUNCH. If you knew me and knew where to look you can see me on Downing Street when Tony Blair first arrived as the Prime Minister invited by people who I won't name drop. Now? Most voted UKIP last time around or refused to vote at all... And all because they are not being listened to... Most people are not racist but all will have concerns that need to be addressed and understood... I personally wouldn't have voted for Trump but those who were in a position to change the mind of people through dialogue and rhetoric decided to slander people with derogatory insults instead... Will the loonies learn before the Conservatives win a landslide in 2020 and remain at the helm for 15 - 20 years? Of course they won't... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 11:24:52 GMT
What's that saying I've seen a lot of lately... "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression". If as a white person you feel oppressed, maybe ask yourself why that might be and if it helps you consider how non-white people feel ALL THE TIME, as opposed to just whining about it.
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 11:28:36 GMT
You don't think white people are being discriminated against or at least they are? You are an idiot and part of the reason we are leaving the EU and Trump reigns in America... well done, I hope you're proud of yourself. You're embarrassing yourself Well, one of us is embarrassing themselves... I just wonder if it's the one who predicted Brexit and Trump understanding why they would happen or the one with absolutely zero arguments apart from shouting RACIST. |
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 11:30:12 GMT
What's that saying I've seen a lot of lately... "when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression". If as a white person you feel oppressed, maybe ask yourself why that might be and if it helps you consider how non-white people feel ALL THE TIME, as opposed to just whining about it. So what's your solution to the problems faced by my parents on the estate they live on as outlined above? It is the looney liberal elite who have created this, no one else. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 11:39:17 GMT
You're embarrassing yourself Well, one of us is embarrassing themselves... I just wonder if it's the one who predicted Brexit and Trump understanding why they would happen or the one with absolutely zero arguments apart from shouting RACIST. no, it's the one that called me an idiot and said I was in part to blame for BREXIT and Trump getting into power. I see your point but do you not find it a little hypocritical in the way you keep calling the left "loonies"? Why am I shouted down for saying a group of people are racist, and in your opinion I'm not helping, but you are allowed to take the piss out of another group? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 11:42:09 GMT
It's almost like SOMEONE isn't really interested in having a conversation and listening to other people's viewpoints, they just want an excuse to shout "LOONIES LOONIES LOONIES", like the overuse of that word isn't in itself immensely problematic firstly for implying that anyone who disagrees is mentally deficient and secondly for implying that anyone with a mental health disorder is inherently bad.
Not that this SOMEONE has shown any sensitivity to or understanding of mental health issues and not being rude about them before now or anything...
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 11:52:29 GMT
Well, one of us is embarrassing themselves... I just wonder if it's the one who predicted Brexit and Trump understanding why they would happen or the one with absolutely zero arguments apart from shouting RACIST. no, it's the one that called me an idiot and said I was in part to blame for BREXIT and Trump getting into power. I see your point but do you not find it a little hypocritical in the way you keep calling the left "loonies"? Why am I shouted down for saying a group of people are racist, and in your opinion I'm not helping, but you are allowed to take the piss out of another group? Are all left "loonies"? Of course not, the traditional left had humanity at their heart. The term "loonies" however, and I suspect you know anyway, is used against people who do not have anyone but themselves and their self-serving, self-rightous, self-loathing selves at heart. |
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 11:53:43 GMT
It's almost like SOMEONE isn't really interested in having a conversation and listening to other people's viewpoints, they just want an excuse to shout "LOONIES LOONIES LOONIES", like the overuse of that word isn't in itself immensely problematic firstly for implying that anyone who disagrees is mentally deficient and secondly for implying that anyone with a mental health disorder is inherently bad. Not that this SOMEONE has shown any sensitivity to or understanding of mental health issues and not being rude about them before now or anything... Oh, give it a rest... It is a term accepted by mainstream media and makes no connection to mental illness... FFS.... I note that you refused to offer a solution to my parent's situation though.... Excuse the pun but life isn't as black and white as you've been brought up to believe... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 11:57:18 GMT
no, it's the one that called me an idiot and said I was in part to blame for BREXIT and Trump getting into power. I see your point but do you not find it a little hypocritical in the way you keep calling the left "loonies"? Why am I shouted down for saying a group of people are racist, and in your opinion I'm not helping, but you are allowed to take the piss out of another group? Are all left "loonies"? Of course not, the traditional left had humanity at their heart. The term "loonies" however, and I suspect you know anyway, is used against people who do not have anyone but themselves and their self-serving, self-rightous, self-loathing selves at heart. Er.......like all the people that voted BREXIT and Trump? Oh no, I forgot, I somehow got them in didn't I |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 11:57:34 GMT
I'm sorry I fail to see what your 'Parents situation' is except 'some non white people moved into our area'
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 11:59:25 GMT
It's almost like SOMEONE isn't really interested in having a conversation and listening to other people's viewpoints, they just want an excuse to shout "LOONIES LOONIES LOONIES", like the overuse of that word isn't in itself immensely problematic firstly for implying that anyone who disagrees is mentally deficient and secondly for implying that anyone with a mental health disorder is inherently bad. Not that this SOMEONE has shown any sensitivity to or understanding of mental health issues and not being rude about them before now or anything... Oh, give it a rest... It is a term accepted by mainstream media and makes no connection to mental illness... FFS.... I note that you refused to offer a solution to my parent's situation though.... Excuse the pun but life isn't as black and white as you've been brought up to believe... Ha! You actually sound like Trump! And I don't think anyone cares about your parents situation so rather than spend time on a forum pretending you vote for labour why don't YOU find a solution? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 12:03:22 GMT
Yeah, I really don't see that "some non-white people moved into the area where my parents live" is even a problem, let alone one that needs a solution from an internet stranger who has no practical influence on the situation.
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Post by DuchessConstance on Nov 10, 2016 12:06:39 GMT
You don't seem to be doing anything or do have studied or given any though to the issues or to have studied the history, but simply to be shouting silly names and "racism against white peoples" around.
Voting against your own interests because you've got a chip on the shoulder about people perceived as more middle/upper class or more intellectual is not a sound policy. "Oh some posho who went to uni says I should do this so I'll automatically do the opposite to spite him, can't push me around!!"
And really if your biggest problem is that your parents have to live next to brown people, what do you expect us to say to that? Do your parents really care more about only living near white Brits, than about the practical economic impact of Brexit on their lives? Brexit is not going to kick your parents' neighbours out of the country anyway, and you'd have to be extremely callous to suggest such a thing. Most of us are immigrants if you go back far enough, and that's even more true for the US (where the only true Americans are a highly persecuted and oppressed minority).
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 12:11:47 GMT
I'm sorry I fail to see what your 'Parents situation' is except 'some non white people moved into our area' You wouldn't... Do you come from a council estate whose community has been decimated by mass immigration? If not please do not comment... |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 12:16:40 GMT
So people you don't agree with are loonies and weirdos and u say I'M the idiot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 12:17:52 GMT
I'm sorry I fail to see what your 'Parents situation' is except 'some non white people moved into our area' You wouldn't... Do you come from a council estate whose community has been decimated by mass immigration? If not please do not comment... And yet you don't live in America but feel like you have the right to comment Grow up |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 12:18:27 GMT
I'm sorry I fail to see what your 'Parents situation' is except 'some non white people moved into our area' You wouldn't... Do you come from a council estate whose community has been decimated by mass immigration? If not please do not comment... While I grant you not technically from a 'Council Estate' I am from a white working class background, with parents who worked on minimum wage most of their lives...in an area that has become more diverse, and in fact adjacent to one of the largest refugee housing centres in the UK. Oh and a stone's throw from the Welsh valleys. So I know a thing or two about working class life, and immigration, and I'm somehow managing to be a raging racist.
Also the 'all the white working classes pulled together in times of need' is frankly bullsh*t as well.
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 12:19:37 GMT
Yeah, I really don't see that "some non-white people moved into the area where my parents live" is even a problem, let alone one that needs a solution from an internet stranger who has no practical influence on the situation. No influence on the situation.. Do you actually speak to real working class people or are you only interested in taking a middle class opinion of them... The working class are turning their backs on Labour and my family's opinion of the party now and of looney left people is lower than a snake's belly. This is being replicated across the country and Labour is dying.... Yep. No influence at all... To paraphrase that complete and utter tosser, you couldn't make it up but as long as people like you refuse to acknowledge and understand their concerns the Conservatives are laughing all the way to a landslide victory and a long, long time as government whilst Labour stays an irrelevant protest movement... |
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Post by ldm2016 on Nov 10, 2016 12:21:19 GMT
You wouldn't... Do you come from a council estate whose community has been decimated by mass immigration? If not please do not comment... While I grant you not technically from a 'Council Estate' I am from a white working class background, with parents who worked on minimum wage most of their lives...in an area that has become more diverse, and in fact adjacent to one of the largest refugee housing centres in the UK. Oh and a stone's throw from the Welsh valleys. So I know a thing or two about working class life, and immigration, and I'm somehow managing to be a raging racist.
Also the 'all the white working classes pulled together in times of need' is frankly bullsh*t as well.
Is that what they're teaching you youngsters in university nowadays? |
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