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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 14:16:17 GMT
The Democrats lost this election in the primaries. They alienated too many voters by smearing Sanders and his supporters and by the DNC actively working against Sanders. By laughing in Sanders supporters' faces when the corruption came out. Sanders supporter or not, many people did not like this one bit. I'll keep saying what I said before, with Sanders as the democratic nominee, Trump would not have won. Hillary did extremely poorly with young people and people in rural areas. Sanders did extremely well with those demographics and the sheer fact that he's a progressive and he would in that case have been the democratic candidate would have easily given him the urban areas in the traditionally blue states as well. Sanders would have never lost Wisconsin or Michigan, he most likely woud have won Pennsylvania too. You can talk about electability all you want, Sanders would have won those states and probably the presidency. The only reason why Trump won is because people were sick and tired of Washington establishment and the status quo. They wanted change in whatever way possible. Now they picked the only remaining candidate who promised change. Sanders would have offered change in a positive way, and it would have won him the presidency. I am convinced of that. The fact is that very few people were actually excited about a Clinton presidency. Young people just couldn't be bothered by her candidacy, especially after the Clinton campaign and the DNC said that these young people hadn't done any research and basically called them clueless. This one is not (solely) on racists and bigots. This is on the DNC and the Clinton Campaign. They dug their own grave. Now the funeral has started.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 14:30:39 GMT
What is the point on dwelling on Sanders? There's no way of telling whether he would have won or not (probably not if he didn't even come close to winning against Hillary). There are some demographics he does better with and some he does worse with. The Latino and African American vote would be down with Bernie as the candidate. And probably women.
This is no ones fault but the people that voted Donald Trump and the media that promoted him. And the fault of the outdated electoral college. Blaming Hillary, the democrats, or liberal voters is not helpful and splits them apart in a time when they desperately need to stick together. Sanders isn't going around talking about how he would have won. It's a time for unity with those who share ideas of tolerance, not divisiveness. Let me tell you if Trump had lost, Republicans wouldn't be blaming each other. They'd be blaming the opposition. And that's why they're strong enough to win.
If it matters to anyone, Clinton is basically confirmed to win the popular vote.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 14:53:17 GMT
What is the point on dwelling on Sanders? There's no way of telling whether he would have won or not (probably not if he didn't even come close to winning against Hillary). There are some demographics he does better with and some he does worse with. The Latino and African American vote would be down with Bernie as the candidate. And probably women. This is no ones fault but the people that voted Donald Trump and the media that promoted him. And the fault of the outdated electoral college. Blaming Hillary, the democrats, or liberal voters is not helpful and splits them apart in a time when they desperately need to stick together. Sanders isn't going around talking about how he would have won. It's a time for unity with those who share ideas of tolerance, not divisiveness. Let me tell you if Trump had lost, Republicans wouldn't be blaming each other. They'd be blaming the opposition. And that's why they're strong enough to win. If it matters to anyone, Clinton is basically confirmed to win the popular vote. The winner is never to blame. Don't blame Trump voters for voting for their preferred candidate. And the media did quite the opposite of promoting him, although obviously such things work in a counter productive way. If anyone's to blame, it's the loser for sucking. I am still convinced that Bernie would have one, as I said he would never have lost the rust belt states. But even if he hadn't been the nominee, the DNC corruption, smugness and blatant bias against Sanders alienated a lot of his voters. Period. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 14:54:35 GMT
What is the point on dwelling on Sanders? There's no way of telling whether he would have won or not (probably not if he didn't even come close to winning against Hillary). There are some demographics he does better with and some he does worse with. The Latino and African American vote would be down with Bernie as the candidate. And probably women. This is no ones fault but the people that voted Donald Trump and the media that promoted him. And the fault of the outdated electoral college. Blaming Hillary, the democrats, or liberal voters is not helpful and splits them apart in a time when they desperately need to stick together. Sanders isn't going around talking about how he would have won. It's a time for unity with those who share ideas of tolerance, not divisiveness. Let me tell you if Trump had lost, Republicans wouldn't be blaming each other. They'd be blaming the opposition. And that's why they're strong enough to win. If it matters to anyone, Clinton is basically confirmed to win the popular vote. The winner is never to blame. Don't blame Trump voters for voting for their preferred candidate. And the media did quite the opposite of promoting him, although obviously such things work in a counter productive way. If anyone's to blame, it's the loser for sucking. I am still convinced that Bernie would have one, as I said he would never have lost the rust belt states. But even if he hadn't been the nominee, the DNC corruption, smugness and blatant bias against Sanders alienated a lot of his voters. Period. Trump and his supporters 'suck' far more than Hillary. So i'll continue to blame them for this. And the media absolutely promoted him, by giving him far more coverage than anyone else. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 14:58:39 GMT
My entire family voted for Trump
They live in LA or NYC
They are all non white well to do professionals
This nasty derogatory attitude is EXACTLY why we ended up with Brexit
A good lesson to the idiot media of the world stuck up its own arse wanting to report only what it can see and then spending weeks analysing how sh*t they are and how unpredictable the world is
And people making assumptions
Both the Brexit and the US presidential election campaigns suffered from the arrogant side taking the moral high ground and calling the other side stupid constantly mocking and taunting
This never works
Twice the lesson has been shown now
You don't need the assumed skills to make it these days
Kim Kardshian gets more column inches than famine and war
Times have changed
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 15:00:19 GMT
The winner is never to blame. Don't blame Trump voters for voting for their preferred candidate. And the media did quite the opposite of promoting him, although obviously such things work in a counter productive way. If anyone's to blame, it's the loser for sucking. I am still convinced that Bernie would have one, as I said he would never have lost the rust belt states. But even if he hadn't been the nominee, the DNC corruption, smugness and blatant bias against Sanders alienated a lot of his voters. Period. Trump and his supporters 'suck' far more than Hillary. So i'll continue to blame them for this. And the media absolutely promoted him, by giving him far more coverage than anyone else. I agree that they suck a lot more. I hate this outcome. But in a fair election, the loser is always to blame, not the winner. And yes the media gave him way too much coverage. But they did so because they were against him, which worked counter productively. I can't believe American media are still too stupid to understand that giving someone negative coverage only makes them more famous. When was the last time anyone had heard of Miley Cyrus before the Wrecking Ball and Twerking controversy? There really is no such thing as bad publicity. |
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Post by viserys on Nov 9, 2016 15:07:42 GMT
Interestingly enough, right now a news item reported that individually, Clinton got 59,166,405 votes and Trump only 59,029,912 - they're still counting but it shows the deeply flawed system of the electoral college.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 15:40:34 GMT
My entire family voted for Trump They live in LA or NYC They are all non white well to do professionals This nasty derogatory attitude is EXACTLY why we ended up with Brexit A good lesson to the idiot media of the world stuck up its own arse wanting to report only what it can see and then spending weeks analysing how sh*t they are and how unpredictable the world is And people making assumptions Both the Brexit and the US presidential election campaigns suffered from the arrogant side taking the moral high ground and calling the other side stupid constantly mocking and taunting This never works Twice the lesson has been shown now You don't need the assumed skills to make it these days Kim Kardshian gets more column inches than famine and war Times have changed Wasnt Trumps whole campaign pretty much mocking and taunting people? People are so desperate to blame the left and the media for how people voted. No, lots of people do not care about anything outside their backyard. Now the press and left will be vilified and it will be oh so easier to slip into fascism.. |
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Post by DuchessConstance on Nov 9, 2016 15:47:24 GMT
Then how should the "media elite" behave, when there are so many reactionary people voting for a bigoted racist with zero experience whose main hobbies are fake tanning and sexually assaulting women?
That there are people in the world willing to vote so far against their own interests to go against some perceived "liberal lefties" is extremely disturbing. How do we reach those people?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 15:56:10 GMT
I wonder how long it will take before Pence is president. A year maybe?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 16:20:07 GMT
Pence, a man that believes in gay conversion therapy.
No, I will not apologise for my 'nasty, derogatory' views on his voters when these people have voted ACTUAL nasty, derogatory (not to mention incredibly harmful) views into power. Parsley, if my own family had voted him into power, I doubt I'd be able to speak to them right now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 16:55:45 GMT
I don't have anything more to say on the politics of this year other than America's f**ked, we are f**ked. What more really is there to say.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 17:01:57 GMT
On the upside - I believe Trump is all bluff and bluster, and will do absolutely eff all in his term in office. I see Trump as a kind of less-offensive Farage. After the EU Referendum Nigel Farage disowned pretty much everything he'd said Brexit would offer. It was all lies and he knew it was all lies, but he knew that those lies were the right buttons to press to get people to vote the way he wanted them to vote. Trump strikes me as much the same: in a world where there are more sources of news than ever before, a world where people can wrap themselves in a cosy cocoon of like-minded individuals that won't threaten their opinions, he stepped into each cocoon and told people exactly what they wanted to hear. He let each person see the most electable Trump possible, and I suspect none of them are the real Trump. He didn't get himself billions of dollars by not knowing how to play people. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 17:07:48 GMT
Then how should the "media elite" behave, when there are so many reactionary people voting for a bigoted racist with zero experience whose main hobbies are fake tanning and sexually assaulting women? That there are people in the world willing to vote so far against their own interests to go against some perceived "liberal lefties" is extremely disturbing. How do we reach those people? Take it graciously And accept the decision Instead of being parasitic leeches and profiting from bitching and commentary The media smearing and mocking Trump for 6 months failed miserably They also forgot Clinton is an arrogant old characterless individual who failed to connect to as many people as she thought she did Bad on her part Forget politicians being out of touch The media are the biggest sh*t bags of all People can make their own minds up always have done and always will do The media are just pathetic bystanders observing life go by Eking a living from other people's detritus and misfortune I always used to joke Beyoncé or Britney shoood be president We aren't that far off in the end |
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Post by londonmzfitz on Nov 9, 2016 17:29:58 GMT
I wonder how long it will take before Pence is president. A year maybe? Secret Service detail assigned to Trump - never a braver man/woman. |
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Post by andromedadench on Nov 9, 2016 17:39:39 GMT
That Melania as First Lady though   Slovenia about to become the boss-country of the EU.  Sorry, Germany, you're dismissed. Dear Melanija, we were born in the same country, help a sister out, send over some $$$, I really really want to see the NT's Follies next year! Seriously though, out of the two human disasters that were presented to the US people as their only options, I'm quite glad they chose the one who is less likely to officially start a WW3. Otherwise, I agree with the posters who reckon that Trump's loony-talk is just hot air and that he won't (be able to) make any significant changes to the US policies. As Dario Fo noted some 50 yeas ago in La signora e' da buttare - the manager of this circus is always the same person who just keeps changing clothes. |
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Post by Tibidabo on Nov 9, 2016 17:43:51 GMT
 The Americans have chosen the evil of two lessers.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 9, 2016 18:21:47 GMT
That Melania as First Lady though Slovenia about to become the boss-country of the EU. Sorry, Germany, you're dismissed. Dear Melanija, we were born in the same country, help a sister out, send over some $$$, I really really want to see the NT's Follies next year! It does rather beg the question of what sort of First Lady she will be though doesn't it? After the plagiarised speech one wonders about her judgement. Not to mention the fact that she married Donald who could be considered a risky bet as a husband with his liking for younger models. Perhaps she'll do a Nancy who spent her entire time planning dinners at the Whitehouse and choosing her next Bill Blass gown. I bet Ivana is bloody LIVID.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 18:22:08 GMT
That Melania as First Lady though Literally the only good thing about this election |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 9, 2016 18:34:28 GMT
Feedback from friends of mine in Miami (professional, gay, latino democrats for the record) is that Hillary is so hated that even they couldn't bring themselves to vote for the woman. She is regarded as the epitome of political greed and corruption. So to keep her out they voted for him instead.
Her husbands comment that "it's her turn" only cemented that decision.
I'm afraid Mr Obama has to take some blame for all this aswell. Eight years in power and he has managed to disenfranchise the people of America to the point where they vote for Trump? Wow. Nice job Barack. What a complete and utter fail he has been. Just as he promised much and delivered little, maybe the reverse will be the same of DT. Let's hope so.
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Post by DuchessConstance on Nov 9, 2016 18:34:37 GMT
Then how should the "media elite" behave, when there are so many reactionary people voting for a bigoted racist with zero experience whose main hobbies are fake tanning and sexually assaulting women? That there are people in the world willing to vote so far against their own interests to go against some perceived "liberal lefties" is extremely disturbing. How do we reach those people? Take it graciously And accept the decision Instead of being parasitic leeches and profiting from bitching and commentary The media smearing and mocking Trump for 6 months failed miserably They also forgot Clinton is an arrogant old characterless individual who failed to connect to as many people as she thought she did Bad on her part Forget politicians being out of touch The media are the biggest sh*t bags of all People can make their own minds up always have done and always will do The media are just pathetic bystanders observing life go by Eking a living from other people's detritus and misfortune I always used to joke Beyoncé or Britney shoood be president We aren't that far off in the end No, I won't be "gracious" because a lot of bigots and Uncle Toms decided to destroy our children's futures and create a world where bigotry rules, out of fear, stupidity, bigotry, and reactionism. That anyone would intentionally vote against their own interests out of some fictitious idea of stickin' it to a perceived "liberal elite" is terrifying. Evidently people cannot make their own minds up, as we've seen from all the people who fell for the Brexit lie and fail to see how completely and utterly they were manipulated. The entire system needs to be overhauled, and politicians held accountable for their crimes and lies. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 18:37:29 GMT
Feedback from friends of mine in Miami (professional, gay, latino democrats for the record) is that Hillary is so hated that even they couldn't bring themselves to vote for the woman. She is regarded as the epitome of political greed and corruption. So they voted for him instead. Her husbands comment that "it's her turn" only cemented that decision. I'm afraid Mr Obama has to take some blame for all this aswell. Eight years in power and he has managed to disenfranchise the people of America to the point where they vote for Trump? Wow. Nice job Barack. What a complete and utter fail he has been. Just as he promised much and delivered little, maybe the reverse will be the same of DT. Let's hope so. I think it's mostly the first point, that people just don't like her and are frustrated by the fact that the establishment seemed to think it was her turn. Obama's approval ratings are some of the best of any outgoing president recent years. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 9, 2016 18:42:19 GMT
Obama's approval ratings are some of the best of any outgoing president recent years. What were they approving of? His golf handicap? Hes been invisible for that past year. |
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Post by andromedadench on Nov 9, 2016 18:43:58 GMT
Slovenia about to become the boss-country of the EU. Sorry, Germany, you're dismissed. Dear Melanija, we were born in the same country, help a sister out, send over some $$$, I really really want to see the NT's Follies next year! It does rather beg the question of what sort of First Lady she will be though doesn't it? After the plagiarised speech one wonders about her judgement. Not to mention the fact that she married Donald who could be considered a risky bet as a husband with his liking for younger models. Perhaps she'll do a Nancy who spent her entire time planning dinners at the Whitehouse and choosing her next Bill Blass gown. I bet Ivana is bloody LIVID. Haaa, one must feel for poor Ivana. She'd have been a delightfully kitschy and amusing first lady. But I don't really know anything about Melanija, I'd never even heard of her before Trump started his presidential campaign. And if she didn't hail from former Yugoslavia, I wouldn't have paid her much attention. That whole speech disaster was hilarious, but I suppose Trump's PR team (or whoever is in charge of those things) is to blame more than her. I doubt she could have had any say in it. Who knows, she might turn out to be interesting. There are so many beautiful gold-diggers in this world, but very few of them this accomplished.  Perhaps she does have some brains after all, I'm really curious to find out! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 18:48:02 GMT
I'm not buying that Hillary is so hated that people HAD to vote for Trump instead.
1. Hillary received more votes.
2. Trump's unfavorability ratings are lower than hers.
So that theory doesn't make much sense.
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Sorry, Germany, you're dismissed.
The Americans have chosen the evil of two lessers.
Perhaps she does have some brains after all, I'm really curious to find out!