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Post by scarpia on Apr 26, 2021 13:27:48 GMT
That said. If there's someone musically inclined out there, who is familiar enough with the London and Tour scores, and is curious enough to play Spot the Difference between the two. You are welcome to give me the specific places/bars you'd like to hear compared, there's enough on Youtube and elsewhere for me to sample/clip from. Ideally orchestra-only selections, no sung parts to distract...! Maybe that can be a reference for how the revival might sound. When I heard the 14-piece orchestration in the Hamburg revival, I was struck by how empty and limp it sounded when the music was supposed to swell. One example that I remember standing out was the bit just before 'Twisted Every Way', just before Christine tells the other onstage characters to stop or else she'll go mad. The climax of 'Wandering Child' with the 'Angel of Music' reprise was also especially lame, particularly since they didn't have the trio, they didn't even have an additional singer on stage who could mask the paucity of the string section. This is what one of the musos told The Stage a few days ago (here's the link to the source: www.thestage.co.uk/your-views/your-views/cutting-phantoms-orchestra-will-ruin-the-show--your-views-april-21 ): I was listening to an interview with Kristin Blodgette the other day - she is the MD for various US productions of ALW's. She said she found the reduction to 14 for the international touring versions very difficult to swallow (as euphemistically as she could, given she's still in ALW's employ). |
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Post by Figaro on Apr 26, 2021 13:57:37 GMT
Looks like some kind of announcement coming soon according to their Instagram.
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Post by ceebee on Apr 26, 2021 14:09:58 GMT
Looks like some kind of announcement coming soon according to their Instagram. Phantom's? Or the Musician's Union? Apologies, am not following. Edit: just seen POTO Instagram. |
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Post by richey on Apr 26, 2021 14:25:31 GMT
Looks like some kind of announcement coming soon according to their Instagram. it'll probably just be the new reopening date |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 15:29:49 GMT
I entirely see the economics and business sense behind cutting the orchestra, nostalgia alone doesn't keep a show afloat.
But my goodness is that statement from Cameron tone deaf at best. In fact hideously rude, self-entitled and condescending is probably a better way to describe it. If that is what he said rather than it being mistranscribed in an interview (and if it had been it would surely have been corrected by now) then it is appalling.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 15:35:08 GMT
I entirely see the economics and business sense behind cutting the orchestra, nostalgia alone doesn't keep a show afloat. But my goodness is that statement from Cameron tone deaf at best. In fact hideously rude, self-entitled and condescending is probably a better way to describe it. If that is what he said rather than it being mistranscribed in an interview (and if it had been it would surely have been corrected by now) then it is appalling. I’d say it’s retaliatory for the backlash. Seems petty. |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 26, 2021 15:38:40 GMT
What orchestra remains should go on strike. What a horrible way to treat these artists.
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Post by scarpia on Apr 26, 2021 16:41:26 GMT
What orchestra remains should go on strike. What a horrible way to treat these artists. There is no remaining orchestra as the whole lot of them were fired, with no commitment to rehire anyone who might be needed for the 14-piece arrangement. I suspect, given the backlash (and I agree with shirleydevore that CM's comments seem retaliatory - the powers-that-be are not used to having truth spoken to them in this way and so publicly), that CM won't offer any of the previous musicians their jobs back. As someone here I think mentioned, doing so invites risking the old timers reminiscing about how things used to be. He'll probably try and hire the UK tour orchestra given the cast and the set is all from the tour. I think the producers have really underestimated the risk in the way they've gone about things. There are no tourists from the Far East to prop up this show in its early months. |
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Post by steve10086 on Apr 26, 2021 17:26:56 GMT
In two minds about my August booking for this now. Begrudge giving CM any money, but also feel I should make up my own mind on this new production. Possibly my final visit to Phantom in London I guess.
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Post by ceebee on Apr 26, 2021 17:35:34 GMT
I really doubt the producers care too much what a few disgruntled players or naysayers online say. Musicians are ten-a-penny as are actors, with a constant conveyor of new talent coming through, many of whom are young enough not to care whether its the brilliant original or the equally brilliant remained version. I know sentimentality is rife in luvvieland, but some hard-nosed cold-blooded business ethics might actually be what gives this show greater longevity.
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Post by ceebee on Apr 26, 2021 17:39:40 GMT
Prepare for "Phantom, the concert" in a few months time with full orchestra, minimal set, Ramin or JOJ headlining, Matt Lucas as Joseph Buquet and a guest appearance from the original chandelier for 8 weeks only.
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Post by Peter on Apr 26, 2021 18:38:56 GMT
I entirely see the economics and business sense behind cutting the orchestra, nostalgia alone doesn't keep a show afloat. But my goodness is that statement from Cameron tone deaf at best. In fact hideously rude, self-entitled and condescending is probably a better way to describe it. If that is what he said rather than it being mistranscribed in an interview (and if it had been it would surely have been corrected by now) then it is appalling. This sums up exactly how I feel - I can see the logic in cutting the orchestra, though don’t agree that it should have been done. But if those words represent Cameron’s views on subject, he’s coming across as a massive . . . well I can’t say on here, but he is one. A massive one. |
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Post by Peter on Apr 26, 2021 18:45:16 GMT
some hard-nosed cold-blooded business ethics might actually be what gives this show greater longevity. Because what this show needs is more longevity? It ran nearly 34 years with 27 in the pit... Besides, if it closes sooner everyone can get on with making more art rather than having to do the same show for years more....  |
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Post by TheatreTwittic on Apr 26, 2021 18:57:28 GMT
The article fascinates me. He acknowledges abroad tourists likely won't be back for 12 months, yet has shouted down regular attendees that were really his only hope at keeping afloat not as he mentions those who have never seen it before.
He mentions no producer today would do what they did all those years ago. Yet they did it and arguably that's why we're here 50 years on.
He argues people are wrong because of Miss Saigon and Les Mis have continued. Miss Saigon certainly can't be linked in with longtivity and arguably Les Mis (New version) can't be claimed a success until we truly see how long it runs.
A final point that's been missed is how much this story is sitting with people. How people are already questioning already how big the orchestra will be for Cinderella, whether he likes it or not people are arguably more aware now than they ever were.
Sure, today's article will no doubt lead to a 5* review and a nice quote from the telegraph they can plaster on a poster but actually it's those audience reactions that are going to decide the future of Phantom and those 'phans' are already starting to turn. Which would probably explain why the short gif drop today to try and rally the troops to drown out the situation.
Expecting a behind the scenes video to be released very soon to explain how 'new and vibrant' and 'better than ever' it will be.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Apr 26, 2021 20:25:21 GMT
I just don't think it was a very nice statement to make — the musicians have said they're sad to be leaving, so why kick them when they're down by insinuating there's something wrong with them because they stayed there for years?
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Post by richey on Apr 27, 2021 9:51:36 GMT
Full cast announced. First entirely new cast change in 35 years according to ALW / |
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Post by theatrenewbie on Apr 27, 2021 9:51:52 GMT
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Post by inthenose on Apr 27, 2021 10:05:42 GMT
I am hearing some interesting news on casting. Expect a very diverse cast coming in for this; very specific casting calls went out for Christine , for example. Like when Les Mis moved, they want a "UK first" for the marketing copy and posters outside of the theatre. No word if they found the right person though. Congratulations to Lucy St Louis! Farewell to lots of the old guard; Philip Griffiths, Claire Tilling, Ellen Jackson and a lot more besides. You served the show well and I wish them all the best for their next projects. I also know a West End regular black Raoul was very much in the running, but that one wasn't to be. |
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Post by scarpia on Apr 27, 2021 10:23:02 GMT
"Putting the new version of the original Phantom production back into its perfect home Her Majesty's Theatre, 35 years after its premiere, is an unexpected thrill."
LOL at the cakeism here--"it's the original production!...but a new version." Not sure how you put something "back" in that was never there.
I see Manon Taris has been cast in the ensemble. She was the alternate in the aborted Paris production (and far superior to Sierra Boggess).
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Post by 141920grm on Apr 27, 2021 11:43:10 GMT
Congratulations to Lucy St Louis! Farewell to lots of the old guard; Philip Griffiths, Claire Tilling, Ellen Jackson and a lot more besides. You served the show well and I wish them all the best for their next projects. I also know a West End regular black Raoul was very much in the running, but that one wasn't to be. Jemal Felix (unfamiliar to me) is covering Raoul though, and I wonder if Ashley Stillburn is returning to do the same? Also slightly devastated for the old guard (Scott Davies!!) who were the most deserving of a proper send-off. |
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Post by scarpia on Apr 27, 2021 12:12:15 GMT
Congratulations to Lucy St Louis! Farewell to lots of the old guard; Philip Griffiths, Claire Tilling, Ellen Jackson and a lot more besides. You served the show well and I wish them all the best for their next projects. I also know a West End regular black Raoul was very much in the running, but that one wasn't to be. Jemal Felix (unfamiliar to me) is covering Raoul though, and I wonder if Ashley Stillburn is returning to do the same? Also slightly devastated for the old guard (Scott Davies!!) who were the most deserving of a proper send-off. From what I gather, I don't think the old guard (at least cast-wise) really want to be back given what's happened to the show. |
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Post by richey on Apr 27, 2021 12:12:42 GMT
"Putting the new version of the original Phantom production back into its perfect home Her Majesty's Theatre, 35 years after its premiere, is an unexpected thrill." LOL at the cakeism here--"it's the original production!...but a new version." Not sure how you put something "back" in that was never there. I see Manon Taris has been cast in the ensemble. She was the alternate in the aborted Paris production (and far superior to Sierra Boggess). And also "Although many of our brilliant original creative colleagues including, Hal Prince, Maria Björnson and Gillian Lynne are sadly no longer with us, their work lives on inspiring our new creative team to stage the Phantom afresh, as if it was a brand new production." |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 27, 2021 12:14:08 GMT
"Putting the new version of the original Phantom production back into its perfect home Her Majesty's Theatre, 35 years after its premiere, is an unexpected thrill." LOL at the cakeism here--"it's the original production!...but a new version." Not sure how you put something "back" in that was never there. I see Manon Taris has been cast in the ensemble. She was the alternate in the aborted Paris production (and far superior to Sierra Boggess). And also "Although many of our brilliant original creative colleagues including, Hal Prince, Maria Björnson and Gillian Lynne are sadly no longer with us, their work lives on inspiring our new creative team to stage the Phantom afresh, as if it was a brand new production." Otherwise known as “lower paid Associates will rip off the best bits of the original designs and overall the whole thing will be a cheaper pale imitation of the original. But we’ll still charge you expensive tickets prices. You are so welcome!” |
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Post by richey on Apr 27, 2021 12:17:13 GMT
And also "Although many of our brilliant original creative colleagues including, Hal Prince, Maria Björnson and Gillian Lynne are sadly no longer with us, their work lives on inspiring our new creative team to stage the Phantom afresh, as if it was a brand new production." Otherwise known as “lower paid Associates will rip off the best bits of the original designs and overall the whole thing will be a cheaper pale imitation of the original. But we’ll still charge you expensive tickets prices. You are so welcome!” Precisely. I seem to recall them using similar marketing when the Laurence Connor tour was announced |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 27, 2021 12:38:24 GMT
It’s happened on Miss Saigon, Les Mis and now Phantom.
It will next happen on Oliver! When he revives that.
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