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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2021 17:49:21 GMT
Exclusive footage with audio of the new reduced orchestra in rehearsals
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328 posts
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Post by barrowside on Apr 15, 2021 17:53:38 GMT
It seems a terrible pity as the show has obviously been profitable since 1986. I feel the rationale behind it is to scale back and standardise the product with the smaller orchestra, mechanised sets and no theatre specific elements like the angel so that endless tours can be rolled out claiming to be identical to the London production.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2021 18:39:21 GMT
It seems a terrible pity as the show has obviously been profitable since 1986. I feel the rationale behind it is to scale back and standardise the product with the smaller orchestra, mechanised sets and no theatre specific elements like the angel so that endless tours can be rolled out claiming to be identical to the London production. Not exactly. London definitely does seem to be making a bit of a mockery of itself, scaling back it's bombastic talent and theatrical spectacle in favour of lower-budget "economic" shows. But hey, if thats pleases the GP and loud shouters here, who are we to question. Hopefully the same wont happen on Broadway, which thankfully has the saving grace of reputable Unions with actual power, rather than BECTU's plasticine policies.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2021 18:49:12 GMT
No-one here seems, yet, to be discussing the fact they're hoping to shoehorn in a touring set as a long-term solution for a sit down production.
Touring sets are made to come apart and transport rather than sit permanently installed and are built for the short term pending storage post tour. Wondering if there's any longevity written into the plan or they're just banking on a few stage-hands tightening some bolts every so often.
Given the set going in to HMT was built for an 18 month UK tour, I'm not sure it'll stand the test of time as the original set did, which was built to a whole 'nother level of industrial standards back in the 80's, where everything was built to last. So I'm not entirely sure what the producers plan is long-term for this pop-up production.
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Post by scarpia on Apr 15, 2021 19:44:22 GMT
No-one here seems, yet, to be discussing the fact they're hoping to shoehorn in a touring set as a long-term solution for a sit down production. Touring sets are made to come apart and transport rather than sit permanently installed and are built for the short term pending storage post tour. Wondering if there's any longevity written into the plan or they're just banking on a few stage-hands tightening some bolts every so often. Given the set going in to HMT was built for an 18 month UK tour, I'm not sure it'll stand the test of time as the original set did, which was built to a whole 'nother level of industrial standards back in the 80's, where everything was built to last. So I'm not entirely sure what the producers plan is long-term for this pop-up production. Originally Jessica Koravos said they were going to spend an extortionate sum on building a brand new set based on the original designs, which is bizarre since: (a) no set cost as much she stated (didn't she say something like $10 million?!); (b) there are plenty of international sets already in existence for the show; and (c) it was obvious Cameron wanted to put in the tour. Now that Cameron has stated it is the tour going in and the letters to investors admitted there was no money to build a brand new set (making you wonder why Jessica Koravos said that in the first place), the question is to what extent they will do anything to improve it. Frankly, in Leicester, it looked bare. The sides of the proscenium had no sculptures, and most of them had also been removed from the top. Then there's that weird cracked effect on the sides where you'd have expected it to rectify itself during the overture when you went back in time, but it didn't happen. What is even more worrying is, in the planning submission design, the set is so shoved in without any adjustments that you can even see the ugly gaps between the different chunks of the false proscenium! Any inclination I might have had to say 'oh, well surely they'll improve it for a sit-down production' went out the window when they went for the absolute minimum number of musicians. I think the poster above, barrowside, is onto something where s/he says the rationale is so that the West End is the same as the tour. In the 1990s Cameron used to pride himself on the fact he rolled out tours across the UK and the US that were equal in quality to Broadway and the West End. Now that's become too expensive, perhaps he figured the only way to claim the regions were getting West End quality was to lower the quality of the latter? Jessica Koravos even stated when the 2020 tour began that it was an "exact replica" of the West End/Broadway production, which turned out not to be the case, and caused a bit of contention amongst audiences...so this way they don't have that issue by downgrading the flagship production to the current tour. It's what Cameron's done with Miz and Poppins, and wasn't even the last Saigon revival essentially what had been the touring version?
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5,863 posts
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Post by mrbarnaby on Apr 15, 2021 23:14:08 GMT
I’ve lost any shred of respect I had for CM after this.
As many (on social media) have pointed out- he’s given up on art and just all about making money now. And at the expense of a clearly beloved show.
I know it won’t happen, but audiences should just boycott the show when it opens. Don’t line his pockets.
This show has made literally BILLIONS of ££s, and it’s not ‘financially viable’ to put a full production in there? Pur-lease.
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526 posts
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Post by danielwhit on Apr 16, 2021 8:59:11 GMT
Good debate all, keep it up.
Separate thing entirely...
Has anyone yet heard about moved tickets from the originally scheduled June performances?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 9:34:14 GMT
Good debate all, keep it up. Separate thing entirely... Has anyone yet heard about moved tickets from the originally scheduled June performances? Nah still waiting.... My hunch is that it might be delayed once again from the current on sale date. Only based on fact that LWT have sorted out moved tickets for Cinderella, Joseph and BTTF quite a while ago so they are usually pretty prompt once they know what's happening. Also, although tickets are on sale from 21st July, as yet (someone correct me if I am wrong) I've not seen a specific press announcement for Phantom from the producers re opening plans. (Though after Boris's roadmap there was a joint statement on Phantom/Joseph/Cinderella). Then as Burly noted, they still seem to be unsure of final layout of seating in auditorium. Who knows!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 9:40:36 GMT
Hey admin- Lost count of how many circles we've gone round when the best we can do is agree to disagree, perhaps there should be a new thread for fans and to-be fans of the London Revival, while we keep to extolling the virtues and preserving the memories of the true Brilliant Original in here without being shot down- when one side is talking art and the other all business? Conversation has become dreadfully boring when members obviously hold fundamentally different views about this. With the greatest of respect, I'd say some people are talking art and other people business AND art and the potential difficult compromises and relationships between the two. I don't think anyone is talking "all business." Also whilst I'd hope it's not about sides, I don't think either is being "shot down" more than the other. This is ultimately a forum for the exchange of views rather than a dedicated fan site. But yes I agree, if when the new production opens it is indeed very different, then it should have it's own thread :-)
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Post by scarpia on Apr 16, 2021 11:07:13 GMT
Also whilst I'd hope it's not about sides, I don't think either is being "shot down" more than the other. This is ultimately a forum for the exchange of views rather than a dedicated fan site. Then you have comments like this, which you apparently 'liked'... ...and this... Not exactly conducive to a civil "exchange of views".
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2,012 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Apr 16, 2021 11:52:45 GMT
One interesting observation from reading some older posts....remember how the tour wasn't selling well at all? As in the recent one that started in Leicester. Leicester was a sell out, but post Leicester, the seating plans were not good at all. There was a reason for that. Whether it was prices, whether it was saturation of large scale tours, whether it's because it wasn't the original despite that tag being plastered on it, whether it was the smaller orchestra, whether people decided to visit London instead, it just didn't click with people enough to buy tickets. Something to 'secure' the production could end up closing it. For good. I think most British people who have ever wanted to see if, have perhaps seen it after all these years.
For some, unless it's a new version, they aren't interested in going to see the same thing again and would rather spend their money on something new?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 11:58:45 GMT
One interesting observation from reading some older posts....remember how the tour wasn't selling well at all? As in the recent one that started in Leicester. Leicester was a sell out, but post Leicester, the seating plans were not good at all. There was a reason for that. Whether it was prices, whether it was saturation of large scale tours, whether it's because it wasn't the original despite that tag being plastered on it, whether it was the smaller orchestra, whether people decided to visit London instead, it just didn't click with people enough to buy tickets. Something to 'secure' the production could end up closing it. For good. I think most British people who have ever wanted to see if, have perhaps seen it after all these years.
For some, unless it's a new version, they aren't interested in going to see the same thing again and would rather spend their money on something new?
The why did Les Miserables do so well in comparison? And The Lion King each and every time it goes out? etc. Surely that reasoning would be justification for never repeat touring anything ever again?
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2,012 posts
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Post by distantcousin on Apr 16, 2021 12:04:52 GMT
I think most British people who have ever wanted to see if, have perhaps seen it after all these years.
For some, unless it's a new version, they aren't interested in going to see the same thing again and would rather spend their money on something new?
The why did Les Miserables do so well in comparison? And The Lion King each and every time it goes out? etc. Surely that reasoning would be justification for never repeat touring anything ever again? Les Mis IS a newer production, and The Lion Ling has only toured in recent years?
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19,735 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 16, 2021 12:13:55 GMT
Seems Les Mis will sell well regardless of what format it’s in. Original, arena tour, 25th anniversary version, Concert.... people flock to it. I bet I could stand up on stage in a mob cap with a bucket In one hand and a broom in the other, miming to Castle on a Cloud and it would bloody sell out!
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Post by tysilio2 on Apr 16, 2021 13:22:47 GMT
Seems Les Mis will sell well regardless of what format it’s in. Original, arena tour, 25th anniversary version, Concert.... people flock to it. I bet I could stand up on stage in a mob cap with a bucket In one hand and a broom in the other, miming to Castle on a Cloud and it would bloody sell out! You'd need to wear the raggy dress as well.
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Post by 141920grm on Apr 16, 2021 13:45:34 GMT
With the greatest of respect, I'd say some people are talking art and other people business AND art and the potential difficult compromises and relationships between the two. I don't think anyone is talking "all business." Also whilst I'd hope it's not about sides, I don't think either is being "shot down" more than the other. This is ultimately a forum for the exchange of views rather than a dedicated fan site. With equally great respect, I would say that I have been (albeit cynically) reacting to these changes to Phantom with a view on how "business-minded" cuts directly and negatively impact the art+artistry that is the show that is his business, so maybe you took my quote too literally- we all know it's all interconnected. I balk at the black-and-white, either-or approach that unquestioningly accepts that cutting costs will mean cutting quality. Compromising art for business. Just because it's the expected way (his usual way) of making a show leaner doesn't mean someone can't go about it in a smarter way, seeing as the original Phantom is literally a cultural icon worldwide; you could probably find dozens of theatre professionals who love the show, want the best for it, and would be happy to be hired for input on how to streamline it without compromising its soul. Instead of throwing everything and everyone out and putting in what's next best and already existing- (boring!) Since no such nuanced thought has occurred at Phantom, I can only continue to respond to each new development skeptically and critically. Besides, I am only of the "side" that believes in questioning the necessity/picking apart the repercussions of one's slashing costs on one's most successful product. And not telling myself that it will all turn out fine and dandy, producer knows best, all hail Cameron. Oh and respecting the original creatives, not dodging royalties, and absolutely not condoning whoever's in charge's playing fast and loose with the Trade Descriptions Act- "Brilliant Original". Finally, you will see I am quite concerned about business, in particular Cameron's PR, as from the perspective of industry insiders and the fans/next generation of creatives, he is making a complete d*ck of himself once again and wrecking his hard-earned legacy with his own hands. Would be a pity to retire as the once-great producer who tossed Les Mis and adulterated Phantom.
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Post by inthenose on Apr 16, 2021 13:49:10 GMT
Seems Les Mis will sell well regardless of what format it’s in. Original, arena tour, 25th anniversary version, Concert.... people flock to it. I bet I could stand up on stage in a mob cap with a bucket In one hand and a broom in the other, miming to Castle on a Cloud and it would bloody sell out! When does it go on sale? Can you book single seats or have you gone all ATG for The Really Burly Group?
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19,735 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 16, 2021 15:18:34 GMT
Seems Les Mis will sell well regardless of what format it’s in. Original, arena tour, 25th anniversary version, Concert.... people flock to it. I bet I could stand up on stage in a mob cap with a bucket In one hand and a broom in the other, miming to Castle on a Cloud and it would bloody sell out! When does it go on sale? Can you book single seats or have you gone all ATG for The Really Burly Group? You can come on your own but I’m insisting on the first 6 rows being left off. I don’t want you lot coughing your lurgy all over me! 😑
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 15:27:19 GMT
When does it go on sale? Can you book single seats or have you gone all ATG for The Really Burly Group? You can come on your own but I’m insisting on the first 6 rows being left off. I don’t want you lot coughing your lurgy all over me! 😑 Don't worry there'll be adequate distance given the orchestra pit, or are you going all Cam Mac and planning on just having a guy backstage plonking along on his Casio? Think of all those extra seats you can sell if you add a few more rows in place of the pit!
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19,735 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 16, 2021 16:12:15 GMT
I was just going to put the LP on!
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Post by inthenose on Apr 16, 2021 16:56:43 GMT
When does it go on sale? Can you book single seats or have you gone all ATG for The Really Burly Group? You can come on your own but I’m insisting on the first 6 rows being left off. I don’t want you lot coughing your lurgy all over me! 😑 Gotta protect that voice love, an awful lot of singing each night. I can recommend a good steamer.
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5,154 posts
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Post by TallPaul on Apr 16, 2021 16:59:57 GMT
No disrespect, or owt, BurlyBeaR, but won't the needle keep jumping with you stomping about the stage. 🙂
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19,735 posts
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 16, 2021 17:38:58 GMT
😡
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Post by ceebee on Apr 16, 2021 20:18:41 GMT
Also whilst I'd hope it's not about sides, I don't think either is being "shot down" more than the other. This is ultimately a forum for the exchange of views rather than a dedicated fan site. Then you have comments like this, which you apparently 'liked'... ...and this... Not exactly conducive to a civil "exchange of views". Bore off.
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Post by steve10086 on Apr 16, 2021 22:08:06 GMT
Then you have comments like this, which you apparently 'liked'... ...and this... Not exactly conducive to a civil "exchange of views". Bore off. Insightful..
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