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Post by phantom4ever on Jul 23, 2020 20:20:47 GMT
Did the 2020 UK tour have the statues on the proscenium? Was there the center angel on the proscenium even if they Phantom didn't come out of it? does the Phantom still use the catwalks in the proscenium?
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Post by 10642 on Jul 23, 2020 20:26:46 GMT
The proscenium was very stripped back. No centre angel, very few statues with a cracked effect. If u look on the uk tour thread or twitter/ tumblr there are plenty of pics. During il Muto Killian was a disembodied voice rather than walking around at the top of the proscenium. Apparently he hides in the pegasus from the end of notes onwards. I assume his parts in il muto were prerecorded like notes.
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Post by scarpia on Jul 23, 2020 20:47:46 GMT
Wasn’t the phantom on horse thing from the 25th anniversary Connor version? Think we can be fairly confident they’re not using that. Re Cameron, no doubt he has faults, but he has almost never delivered a poor quality product. No, the horse is from the most recent tour from this year. I don't actually mind the horse for touring purposes, it's quite nicely done. But it shouldn't be used for the sit-down production at HM's where they can (and have, for the past 30+ years) use the Angel. But there are rumours circulating (and passed on from cast members just fired) that Cameron wants to rid of the Angel. Which would be particularly awful because it was Maria Björnson's favourite set piece, and she personally vetoed getting rid of it previously. Nope, the second set of photos is from the Curve in Leicester, and which was billed as 'The Brilliant Original'. The chandelier is recycled from Paul Brown's badly designed production, but it didn't stop CML from using the 'Brilliant Original' tagline. This is the point we are trying to make: Mackintosh has precedent in declaring a production the 'Brilliant Original' even when it is patently not. No, not an ideal replacement for London as it's significantly smaller and less elaborate than what's been used in London. Also, as it was not designed to rise from the stage, it had a mechanism where the sheets around it would be sort of sucked into it (as the actors on stage can't pull the sheets off as they do in the original production). So using that wouldn't be appropriate for London if they intend on keeping the effect of the chandelier rising from the stage, which ALW himself as called one of his most theatrical effects to date (he conceived that idea). Exactly - and I don't know why posters here are so confident in dismissing those fears, unless they are party to inside information the rest of us don't know. And the rising candelabra have been compromised in previous revamps - when the show was revived at Hamburg's Neue Flora theatre a few years ago, the candelabra came in from the wings rather than from beneath the stage, even though that theatre was built for that show (it ran for a decade there in the 90s) with the capability of producing the original effect. As the poster above has said, there weren't any statues. There were the lyres but nothing else. No Angel. No catwalk. It'll be a tragedy if the touring production becomes the sit-down production. |
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42ndBlvd
Swing
I'll be back where I was born to be
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Post by 42ndBlvd on Jul 23, 2020 21:31:02 GMT
Main differences between 2020 UK tour and London production: - in Leicester they used the restaged tour chandelier which began above the audience, lowered when mentioned by auctioneer then rose slightly during the overture. Fell directly over the audience at end of act 1 (didn’t fall to stage like London). Apparently they were building a new chandelier more like the London one but it didn’t fit the curve or wasn’t ready in time. (An ideal replacement for London if they’ve already spent the money to build it...?) - All I ask of You reprise - during all i ask of you the “pegasus” statue is at the back of the stage as Raoul and Christine leave it swings forward and the Phantom appears at the top to sing, as he holds the last note it retreats backwards before the chandelier falls - slight lyric change in Final Lair where Phantom sings “I had rarely dreamt we’d be so blessed/and now my wish comes true, you have truly made my night” instead of “i had rather hoped that you would come” -no trapdoor for masquerade - hard to have a trapdoor in same place on different stages when touring - Phantom runs off stage covered by the ensemble - Raoul does jump from the bridge on way to the Lair but into a box that slides out in the darkness rather than through a trapdoor Ok now i'm just confused as heck. What the was the reason for the lyric changes?? Like it's such a small thing... |
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 24, 2020 7:08:53 GMT
Wasn’t the phantom on horse thing from the 25th anniversary Connor version? Think we can be fairly confident they’re not using that. As for the end of act 1 look, apparently this was not complete in Leicester this year. I know it’s hard living with uncertainty, but we’ll just have to wait and see. Re Cameron, no doubt he has faults, but he has almost never delivered a poor quality product. The phantom on horse thing was from the 2020 UK Tour Seth Sklar-Heyn/Tom O'Brien version. Sklar-Heyn was production supervisor of POTO Broadway; and associate director of the Connor version 25th Ann/Restaged US tour. I wish I could be as "fairly confident" as you are, but with each damning reveal of what Cameron Mackintosh is doing to his productions/casts right now (read: treating them like sh*te) I can't help but feel pessimistic; if he can openly disrespect the Les Mis original creatives, publicly throw the Dear Evan Hansen and Book of Mormon casts under a bus, secretly sack the entire Her Majesty's cast and crew and forbidding them to talk about it, I really have no confidence in him upholding the original vision of the late Hal Prince/Maria Bjornson/Gillian Lynne who cannot speak out against anything he wants to and will do. Yes theatre is a business, but Mackintosh's business obviously lacks morals and basic human integrity. That knowledge would certainly mar my experience of his "product" no matter how "good quality" they may appear to be. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 8:40:10 GMT
I think there is a confusion here. Aren't the second set of photos in Scarpia's post of Paul Brown's designs and chandelier from the non-replica tour which has now been scrapped. I think the worry is that the production will retain Maria Bjornson's designs when it reopens but that they may be cheapened, dumbed or scaled down for economy and some of her effects such as the rising candelabra may be compromised. Sorry, no. I comped that picture together. The image on the right is from Curve Leicester from the most recent tour of Phantom. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2020 10:49:40 GMT
Wasn’t the phantom on horse thing from the 25th anniversary Connor version? Think we can be fairly confident they’re not using that. As for the end of act 1 look, apparently this was not complete in Leicester this year. I know it’s hard living with uncertainty, but we’ll just have to wait and see. Re Cameron, no doubt he has faults, but he has almost never delivered a poor quality product. The phantom on horse thing was from the 2020 UK Tour Seth Sklar-Heyn/Tom O'Brien version. Sklar-Heyn was production supervisor of POTO Broadway; and associate director of the Connor version 25th Ann/Restaged US tour. I wish I could be as "fairly confident" as you are, but with each damning reveal of what Cameron Mackintosh is doing to his productions/casts right now (read: treating them like sh*te) I can't help but feel pessimistic; if he can openly disrespect the Les Mis original creatives, publicly throw the Dear Evan Hansen and Book of Mormon casts under a bus, secretly sack the entire Her Majesty's cast and crew and forbidding them to talk about it, I really have no confidence in him upholding the original vision of the late Hal Prince/Maria Bjornson/Gillian Lynne who cannot speak out against anything he wants to and will do. Yes theatre is a business, but Mackintosh's business obviously lacks morals and basic human integrity. That knowledge would certainly mar my experience of his "product" no matter how "good quality" they may appear to be. Certainly I agree that it would be a shame if the angel is replaced by #phantomonhorse. Regarding Cameron, I said he has almost never delivered a poor quality product. All the other stuff I’m not expressing an opinion on. Many things of course if true would be bad, I just feel none of us really know the interactions he has and in a world of spin, hyperbole, social media outrage and trial by Twitter I don’t feel able to form a confident opinion. But as an audience member I am 100% sure that I have never been disappointed at a Cam Mac show. So I would be very surprised if the updated phantom, when it reopens, disappoints. |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 24, 2020 14:41:02 GMT
Regarding Cameron, I said he has almost never delivered a poor quality product. All the other stuff I’m not expressing an opinion on. Many things of course if true would be bad, I just feel none of us really know the interactions he has and in a world of spin, hyperbole, social media outrage and trial by Twitter I don’t feel able to form a confident opinion. But as an audience member I am 100% sure that I have never been disappointed at a Cam Mac show. So I would be very surprised if the updated phantom, when it reopens, disappoints. Given his last foray into Phantom was the Laurence Connor tour which very few seemed to like (so much so it's been junked), it's difficult to share that optimism. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jul 24, 2020 17:25:13 GMT
Regarding Cameron, I said he has almost never delivered a poor quality product. All the other stuff I’m not expressing an opinion on. Many things of course if true would be bad, I just feel none of us really know the interactions he has and in a world of spin, hyperbole, social media outrage and trial by Twitter I don’t feel able to form a confident opinion. But as an audience member I am 100% sure that I have never been disappointed at a Cam Mac show. So I would be very surprised if the updated phantom, when it reopens, disappoints. Given his last foray into Phantom was the Laurence Connor tour which very few seemed to like (so much so it's been junked), it's difficult to share that optimism. He’ll learn from that presumably. He might be a lot of things but he’s not daft. |
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 25, 2020 7:57:50 GMT
Regarding Cameron, I said he has almost never delivered a poor quality product. All the other stuff I’m not expressing an opinion on. Many things of course if true would be bad, I just feel none of us really know the interactions he has and in a world of spin, hyperbole, social media outrage and trial by Twitter I don’t feel able to form a confident opinion. But as an audience member I am 100% sure that I have never been disappointed at a Cam Mac show. So I would be very surprised if the updated phantom, when it reopens, disappoints. I acknowledge your decision to separate the artistic end product of Cameron's shows from his ways of doing business, in fact I envy your ability to do it. However these rumours are not spin or exaggerated through social media outrage- they are a genuine cause for concern & have been corroborated by the handful of current cast members with whom I have chatted with at SD/on social media, whose lives and mental health are affected daily by this sh*tshow of a way Cameron's company handled the matter. Yes the actual, visible changes to the show may seem inconsequential, Masquerade will still be stunning with modified blocking and costumes (one hopes), but they are reflective of the real matter at hand- the increasingly obvious imbalanced relationship between Cameron and his creatives, even to the average fan like me. The fact that they are among the very same group of people who will be putting on a show for us when COVID-19 is over, makes their current plight inextricable from the show itself. This isn't a little managerial scuffle within the higher ranks of Delfont Mackintosh, this is literally a producer destroying the livelihoods of hundreds of people when they no longer bring him income, through no cause of their own. Surely this counts as obvious, factual evidence of the disgraceful lack of respect Cameron holds for his employees. The actors of course will be professional enough to put on a good show- a "good quality product" as you put it- but knowing what has been happening behind the scenes during this time, is enough for me, as an audience member, to be able to confidently form an opinion on Cameron as a person and a producer- disappointment doesn't begin to describe it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 15:49:34 GMT
Regarding Cameron, I said he has almost never delivered a poor quality product. All the other stuff I’m not expressing an opinion on. Many things of course if true would be bad, I just feel none of us really know the interactions he has and in a world of spin, hyperbole, social media outrage and trial by Twitter I don’t feel able to form a confident opinion. But as an audience member I am 100% sure that I have never been disappointed at a Cam Mac show. So I would be very surprised if the updated phantom, when it reopens, disappoints. I acknowledge your decision to separate the artistic end product of Cameron's shows from his ways of doing business, in fact I envy your ability to do it. However these rumours are not spin or exaggerated through social media outrage- they are a genuine cause for concern & have been corroborated by the handful of current cast members with whom I have chatted with at SD/on social media, whose lives and mental health are affected daily by this sh*tshow of a way Cameron's company handled the matter. Yes the actual, visible changes to the show may seem inconsequential, Masquerade will still be stunning with modified blocking and costumes (one hopes), but they are reflective of the real matter at hand- the increasingly obvious imbalanced relationship between Cameron and his creatives, even to the average fan like me. The fact that they are among the very same group of people who will be putting on a show for us when COVID-19 is over, makes their current plight inextricable from the show itself. This isn't a little managerial scuffle within the higher ranks of Delfont Mackintosh, this is literally a producer destroying the livelihoods of hundreds of people when they no longer bring him income, through no cause of their own. Surely this counts as obvious, factual evidence of the disgraceful lack of respect Cameron holds for his employees. The actors of course will be professional enough to put on a good show- a "good quality product" as you put it- but knowing what has been happening behind the scenes during this time, is enough for me, as an audience member, to be able to confidently form an opinion on Cameron as a person and a producer- disappointment doesn't begin to describe it. Yup, I totally understand why you would be concerned about this stuff! |
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Post by danb on Jul 25, 2020 16:06:40 GMT
The West Ends very own Tim Martin, but can you get a pint for £1.29 in any of Cammacs theatres?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2020 16:22:11 GMT
The West Ends very own Tim Martin, but can you get a pint for £1.29 in any of Cammacs theatres? Only if you move the decimal point! |
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Post by danb on Jul 25, 2020 20:13:51 GMT
I’ll pass thanks. If he treats his casts & crews like that the last thing I’m likely to do is give him £10 for a beer. I’ll sneak one in under my coat.
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Post by tommy on Jul 27, 2020 12:57:45 GMT
I think in general theatre will look completely different "after" Covid19, with positive and less interesting changes. New/updated versions of a long running production can be refreshing and sometimes work very well, but I think for a show like Phantom apart from perhaps essential set updates it would be very trikcy to ignore the original top production. Compare it to a brand like Coca Cola, there are new variants, some of them being very successful too, but could you imagine they would leave out the original taste as well?
That said, theatre is a business and decisions will of course depend from realistic budgets within the new normal. Blockbuster musicals I think will only be realistic without social distance or perhaps in very large theatres attracting enough audiences to make it work.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 12:30:50 GMT
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 28, 2020 12:37:41 GMT
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Post by theatremadness on Jul 28, 2020 12:48:38 GMT
I am so confused. How was this decision arrived at?!?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 12:51:00 GMT
I wonder if Cameron was unable to come to an agreement with ALW as to what production they were going to reopen with, so has pulled the show altogether.
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Post by 10642 on Jul 28, 2020 12:57:26 GMT
Desperately hoping this is some sort of ruse to put pressure on the government and that he’ll reopen it next year potentially with the tour sets or in a smaller theatre. Can’t believe they’d just announce it in an opinion piece in a paper if it was proper, permanent closure? Surely there’d be a press release like with the tour
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Jul 28, 2020 13:01:34 GMT
So sad 💔
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 28, 2020 13:06:29 GMT
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Mackintosh took some Les Mis characters, some Phantom characters, mashed them up into “The Phantom of the Barricades” and marketed it as “The Brilliant Originals Together At Last”. Should save him a bit of cash... given how poor he is.
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Post by anthony on Jul 28, 2020 13:27:27 GMT
Desperately hoping this is some sort of ruse to put pressure on the government and that he’ll reopen it next year potentially with the tour sets or in a smaller theatre. Can’t believe they’d just announce it in an opinion piece in a paper if it was proper, permanent closure? Surely there’d be a press release like with the tour It has to be, right?! It just makes no sense - it still sells really well (when I last went in February, there was 'sold out' poster at the front). Especially with Phantom being so close to overtaking Les Mis as being the longest running West End musical, following Les Mis' closure and reopening of a new production... (wonder if this has influenced Mackintosh's decision?). It just makes no sense and it seems like such a cheap way to make an announcement like this? Part of me thinks it MUST be to just put pressure on the government - a staple of the West End announcing a closure sends a message, I guess... |
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Post by zahidf on Jul 28, 2020 13:29:45 GMT
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Post by isabel on Jul 28, 2020 13:38:09 GMT
So it’s never coming back ?
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