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Post by fiyero on Apr 25, 2019 13:56:58 GMT
Wow, is that not just a bit ‘odd’? The youth ‘Les Mis’ just about works but aren’t the themes just a touch adult? What sort of parent wants to see that? 😳😂 I saw a school's version of Miss Saigon once, performed by a local theatre school. Lots of embarrassed teenage girls in bikinis, and we won't even mention the helicopter ... I don't want to take this too far off topic but I've seen youth productions of Phantom, Miss Saigon and Les Mis. All were fab but I do wonder how proud parents would be of their little 12 year olds being credited as whore. |
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Post by Scswp on Apr 25, 2019 14:03:03 GMT
Wow, is that not just a bit ‘odd’? The youth ‘Les Mis’ just about works but aren’t the themes just a touch adult? What sort of parent wants to see that? 😳😂 I saw a school's version of Miss Saigon once, performed by a local theatre school. Lots of embarrassed teenage girls in bikinis, and we won't even mention the helicopter ... Oh go on, please do mention the helicopter. How on earth does a youth theatre school achieve this effect? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2019 14:57:00 GMT
I saw a school's version of Miss Saigon once, performed by a local theatre school. Lots of embarrassed teenage girls in bikinis, and we won't even mention the helicopter ... Oh go on, please do mention the helicopter. How on earth does a youth theatre school achieve this effect? Dying to know! Spill!!! |
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882 posts
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Post by longinthetooth on Apr 25, 2019 15:55:21 GMT
Oh go on, please do mention the helicopter. How on earth does a youth theatre school achieve this effect? Oh well, if you insist .... an upside down ceiling fan! You did have to use your imagination a bit, funnily enough - OH likened it to Budgie the Helicopter! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2019 20:16:17 GMT
Oh go on, please do mention the helicopter. How on earth does a youth theatre school achieve this effect? Oh well, if you insist .... an upside down ceiling fan! You did have to use your imagination a bit, funnily enough - OH likened it to Budgie the Helicopter! 10/10 for creativity! I can only only imagine the result though. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2019 19:11:50 GMT
West End Eurovision 2019 promo underway, etc. Phantom's entry for the Ident comp is brilliant...
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660 posts
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Post by Oleanna on Apr 27, 2019 1:34:45 GMT
Love that this show is getting so much discussion at the moment!
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Apr 27, 2019 4:59:58 GMT
There are rumours of the original production doing the rounds 2020, which excites me highly. The original production is touring Asia/Middle East/South Africa right now. It's a very very international cast, and everyone in it is from everywhere. Due to Equity rules in the UK this might be a challenge to get them in. To be honest, I think it might be the 'red' Phantom tour, i.e. the one directed by Lawrence O'Connor that is currently touring North America that ends up touring in the UK. It previously toured the UK but I feel like it was a brief one. This is the second time it tours the US, so it might start a second UK tour by 2020. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 8:14:38 GMT
There are rumours of the original production doing the rounds 2020, which excites me highly. The original production is touring Asia/Middle East/South Africa right now. It's a very very international cast, and everyone in it is from everywhere. Due to Equity rules in the UK this might be a challenge to get them in. To be honest, I think it might be the 'red' Phantom tour, i.e. the one directed by Lawrence O'Connor that is currently touring North America that ends up touring in the UK. It previously toured the UK but I feel like it was a brief one. This is the second time it tours the US, so it might start a second UK tour by 2020. Urgh I hope it's not the Red run. The tour currently on the eastern continents is described as a world tour, but you do make a good point about the casting and Equity. By the time the UK tour pops up, the World tour will have been on the road for at least 12 months, so cast could be at the end of their contracts, just in time for a European (UK-heavy) recasting... (clutching straws) Who knows at this point. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 27, 2019 8:25:56 GMT
My problem with the tour version wasn’t anything to do with the changes, but it was so dimly lit I could barely see what was happening.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 8:29:01 GMT
I do wonder if eventually Phantom will have a compete overhaul. Given all the recent chit chat re Les Mis original not being iconic enough to keep going according to Cam Mac. I don't think it would ever change to the touring version as it just simply isn't as good as the Les Mis version so is no contest for the original. Surely they should do SOMETHING just to update it a bit though. It needs it IMO. Realistically at some point soon they're going to have to re-light the show to replace the bulk of the incandescent fixtures with LED. I wonder if they'll take that opportunity to tighten things up production-wise. Part of Phantom's success is the underlying simplicity in Bjornson's design. As you say, the touring re-style wasn't as popular and the Vegas re-style, whilst truer to the original, didn't make the overall impression intended. For these reasons I think (and hope) they'd choose to just tweak and tighten it up rather than commission a new design for the show. Also requirements of a new production may interfere with (or be restricted by) the existing sub-stage manually driven victorian equipment, still in use currently. Whilst Lloyd-Webber has recently demonstrated this is not an issue for his ideas, the Theatre Trust may be less accommodating to a proposal to tear out another of the the last remaining working examples of historical importance. Really interesting post. Agree Bjornson’s design is iconic in it’s simplicity. And the sub-stage equipment a reminder of times gone by! But watching the show I do think it looks dated. It reignites the debate on whether look running shows should be updated. On the Les Mis thread I’ve said that the original staging is iconic. Again a simple (but spectacular) design by John Napier and superb direction by Napier and Caird (and I agree that the new production is heavily influenced by their work on the show). Anyway, saw the tour last night in Birmingham and it’s epic. So fresh and so well done. So while I still mourn the loss of the original I do now feel it will be great to have the new production in the Queen’s. It does stop it being a museum piece. Back to Phantom I think eyes will be on that now as the true West End museum piece. And does it need a drastic overhaul. I suspect if was only Cam Mac they would do something. ALW being co-producer via RUG and composer probably has the ultimate say and I’d imagine he has final say. And if they were to change who would that happen? The tour is not the answer. It was great as a touring production (and it was lovely after so many years to see a new production). But it truly didn’t rival the London production, just not as good (which it could be argued the Les Mis tour does - largely IMO due to endless nods to the original. Oh and Nunn and Caird should still get credits and royalties for the new version but that’s for another threadl So back to phantom maybe it’s best to keep it as it is. But if they do that, they need to keep it as tight A’s possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2019 8:57:22 GMT
Realistically at some point soon they're going to have to re-light the show to replace the bulk of the incandescent fixtures with LED. I wonder if they'll take that opportunity to tighten things up production-wise. Part of Phantom's success is the underlying simplicity in Bjornson's design. As you say, the touring re-style wasn't as popular and the Vegas re-style, whilst truer to the original, didn't make the overall impression intended. For these reasons I think (and hope) they'd choose to just tweak and tighten it up rather than commission a new design for the show. Also requirements of a new production may interfere with (or be restricted by) the existing sub-stage manually driven victorian equipment, still in use currently. Whilst Lloyd-Webber has recently demonstrated this is not an issue for his ideas, the Theatre Trust may be less accommodating to a proposal to tear out another of the the last remaining working examples of historical importance. Really interesting post. Agree Bjornson’s design is iconic in it’s simplicity. And the sub-stage equipment a reminder of times gone by! But watching the show I do think it looks dated. It reignites the debate on whether look running shows should be updated. On the Les Mis thread I’ve said that the original staging is iconic. Again a simple (but spectacular) design by John Napier and superb direction by Napier and Caird (and I agree that the new production is heavily influenced by their work on the show). Anyway, saw the tour last night in Birmingham and it’s epic. So fresh and so well done. So while I still mourn the loss of the original I do now feel it will be great to have the new production in the Queen’s. It does stop it being a museum piece. Back to Phantom I think eyes will be on that now as the true West End museum piece. And does it need a drastic overhaul. I suspect if was only Cam Mac they would do something. ALW being co-producer via RUG and composer probably has the ultimate say and I’d imagine he has final say. And if they were to change who would that happen? The tour is not the answer. It was great as a touring production (and it was lovely after so many years to see a new production). But it truly didn’t rival the London production, just not as good (which it could be argued the Les Mis tour does - largely IMO due to endless nods to the original. Oh and Nunn and Caird should still get credits and royalties for the new version but that’s for another threadl So back to phantom maybe it’s best to keep it as it is. But if they do that, they need to keep it as tight A’s possible. I'd agree that some of it does feel dated, as newer technology enables emerging shows to up the game on spectacle, the overture sequence that was once mind-blowing now does seem a tad blase. Especially as now, over 30 years, on you can still get distracted as stage-hands in costume tug at the drapes snagging and caught on the angelic, filagree proscenium, whilst the chandelier shudders and precariously rises. That (already mentioned) terrible lightening screen accompanied by a few irregular pops from a couple of strobes contributes to a rather underwhelming experience. I dare say, as you point out, Cam Mac is all for updating and dragging it forward a couple of centuries in it's presentation but ALW is probably a bit more precious of this particular production and rightly so. I do feel theres an element of "if it aint broke don't fix it" and whilst the show still sells well and continues to function there isn't a real demand to change it, perhaps certain refinements could be made. Like, the lord, I am quite precious of this production in it's original format but a few changes I could see fit are: An overhaul of the overture sequence, including a new automation system for the chandelier allowing a faster fall at the end of Act 1. Cut that dire Lightening screen altogether, replace with pyro and brighter strobe. Rebuild the Dressing Room cart, making it lighter and much easier to move, allowing a silent scene change into the Lair Silence the loops on the red Opera House stage curtain, that jangles like a mad gypsy woman as it opens and closes after Think of Me and during Don Juan. Tighten up the proscenium and new automation system for the Angel so it doesn't squeak and wobble around as it lowers. Somehow sort that scene change after Masquerade out, it's the worst part of the show. Personally, I'd also like it if the stage wasn't buffed to buggery as well. Phantom crawling over it during the Final Lair squeaking as he does so undermines the whole thing. Just a few bits to change then hahah |
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Post by xanady on Apr 27, 2019 11:44:52 GMT
Really interesting reading Serial Shusher and Dom’s discussion.Phantom seems to be a bit of a museum-piece in a good way.
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Post by danb on Apr 27, 2019 16:00:57 GMT
Really interesting reading Serial Shusher and Dom’s discussion.Phantom seems to be a bit of a museum-piece in a good way. Yes; on one hand that’s part of the charm, but the material is strong enough to survive the most basic of overhauls (the last tour) and still be enjoyed. I’m all for tarting it right up and making it a spectacular like vegas. |
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Post by ceebee on Apr 27, 2019 16:47:08 GMT
Saw Phantom this afternoon with the kids. David Thaxton was excellent - such a brilliant actor. No idea who played Raoul but he needs to project, as his voice is lost on stage. Been a few years since I saw this show, and it was very nice to see it again. Agree that it could do with freshening up for direction and effects, but it's a masterpiece of musical theatre and deserves to still be running.
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Post by LaLuPone on Apr 27, 2019 16:59:03 GMT
Saw Phantom this afternoon with the kids. David Thaxton was excellent - such a brilliant actor. No idea who played Raoul but he needs to project, as his voice is lost on stage. Been a few years since I saw this show, and it was very nice to see it again. Agree that it could do with freshening up for direction and effects, but it's a masterpiece of musical theatre and deserves to still be running. I think Jeremy Taylor is lead Raoul right now, I’ve noticed quite a few other less-than-favourable reviews of him actually! |
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Post by amp09 on Apr 27, 2019 17:10:05 GMT
Ashamed to say I’ve yet to see Phantom. Knowing it’s a long runner tips me in favour of catching other shows that I may miss otherwise. Hoping to see it finally next Thursday matinee.
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Post by xanady on Apr 27, 2019 17:17:14 GMT
Don’t be ashamed that you haven’t met the Phantom yet but I think you will be in for one heck of a treat when your paths cross next week.Since seeing the original it has never left my top five live shows of all time!
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Post by danb on Apr 27, 2019 19:09:19 GMT
Saw Phantom this afternoon with the kids. David Thaxton was excellent - such a brilliant actor. No idea who played Raoul but he needs to project, as his voice is lost on stage. Been a few years since I saw this show, and it was very nice to see it again. Agree that it could do with freshening up for direction and effects, but it's a masterpiece of musical theatre and deserves to still be running. I think Jeremy Taylor is lead Raoul right now, I’ve noticed quite a few other less-than-favourable reviews of him actually! I think Raoul is a bit of hard sell. If he’s too fit and swoonsome he pulls focus from the Phantom and he’s labelled ‘smug’. If he’s too wet he’s a drip. Fresh faced enthusiasm is whats needed, and a spot of swashbuckling ‘derring do’. The sort of thing Xavier would have done well ten years ago. He can’t just be a fantastic voice; he needs stature which rules out lots of ex-Marius’s. Jeremy Taylor should be great at this as he made a good job of Fiyero. What’s the problem? |
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Post by distantcousin on Apr 28, 2019 10:53:00 GMT
I think Jeremy Taylor is lead Raoul right now, I’ve noticed quite a few other less-than-favourable reviews of him actually! I think Raoul is a bit of hard sell. If he’s too fit and swoonsome he pulls focus from the Phantom and he’s labelled ‘smug’. If he’s too wet he’s a drip. Fresh faced enthusiasm is whats needed, and a spot of swashbuckling ‘derring do’. The sort of thing Xavier would have done well ten years ago. He can’t just be a fantastic voice; he needs stature which rules out lots of ex-Marius’s. Jeremy Taylor should be great at this as he made a good job of Fiyero. What’s the problem?
Taylor is definitely playing it smug and charmless. I can't remember many of the ones I've seen in the distant past to compare, but I thought Patrick Wilson got the balance right in the film.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 10:56:35 GMT
I think Raoul is a bit of hard sell. If he’s too fit and swoonsome he pulls focus from the Phantom and he’s labelled ‘smug’. If he’s too wet he’s a drip. Fresh faced enthusiasm is whats needed, and a spot of swashbuckling ‘derring do’. The sort of thing Xavier would have done well ten years ago. He can’t just be a fantastic voice; he needs stature which rules out lots of ex-Marius’s. Jeremy Taylor should be great at this as he made a good job of Fiyero. What’s the problem?
Taylor is definitely playing it smug and charmless. I can't remember many of the ones I've seen in the distant past to compare, but I thought Patrick Wilson got the balance right in the film.
Best Raoul I've seen to date has been Nadim Naaman. Toned down the smugness the right amount and played it with an honesty. In my opinion, too many play Raoul with too much bravado making him unlikable. |
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Post by amp09 on May 1, 2019 23:14:48 GMT
Just bought B18 stalls for tomorrow’s matinee at discounted rate. At 5’8”, will I have any problems with legroom? I don’t tend to have any issues in other theatres.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2019 23:47:04 GMT
Just bought B18 stalls for tomorrow’s matinee at discounted rate. At 5’8”, will I have any problems with legroom? I don’t tend to have any issues in other theatres. I've never been in B18. Someone on Seatplan said "Seat is very comfortable and there's quite some legroom". That person is 1'62m tall according to their profile. Another person said "I found that my seat was perfect at 5'2" However my husband at 6'3" developed cramp because of the limited amount of space". Hope this helps somehow. |
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Post by TallPaul on May 2, 2019 15:48:12 GMT
Couldn't you just go for a swing on the chandelier, or something, TM? 🙂
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Post by indis on May 2, 2019 16:01:53 GMT
Taylor is definitely playing it smug and charmless. I can't remember many of the ones I've seen in the distant past to compare, but I thought Patrick Wilson got the balance right in the film.
Best Raoul I've seen to date has been Nadim Naaman. Toned down the smugness the right amount and played it with an honesty. In my opinion, too many play Raoul with too much bravado making him unlikable. Nadim was the most boring i have seen so far (think i saw 7 or 8 the last years)
not keen on seeing Jeremy to be honest because he was a very boring and unpassionate Fiyero, no chemistry with Willemijn too - hoped he would be better as Raoul, but some posts about it don't make me want to see it and some are very happy with his Raoul
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