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Post by scarpia on Nov 25, 2021 19:18:47 GMT
It was clear to me and perhaps those who followed this situation closely that ALW wanted to reopen with a proper orchestra. I always suspected this was purely Cameron Mackintosh's decision, and I imagine ALW was fighting tooth and nail against it. Sadly, ALW as a powerful man (and a public figure) had little say in this one. The show will never be the same again, we all know that - but as a critic of ALW as a producer, I really feel he didn't want this to happen in the West End to his finest work. I agree that ALW would have wanted a bigger orchestra and would have preferred the actual physical production to have been the original, but my understanding is that ALW *had* to sign off Cameron's decision. Maybe Cameron gave him an ultimatum, e.g. 'it's the tour version or nothing', but ultimately ALW did sign off on it. And his constant telling the press that he's not the producer of the show is simply untrue and I'm not surprised Cameron has had enough of him saying that. It's been a bad press week for ALW but I can't help thinking he's brought all of this on himself with his poor decision-making and constant attempts to spin everything in his favour. He ends up coming across as a desperate fibber. |
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Post by scarpia on Nov 25, 2021 19:20:35 GMT
If it’s a “cut costs or this show isn’t financially viable” situation then they must have agreed to cut the costs. Otherwise the show would be shut! You can’t go along with it and then complain about it and blame someone else. Otherwise couldn’t he have personally suffered the additional cost needed to maintain the orchestra? Though, with the creatives and investors all dumped, I don’t really understand how it’s losing money all of a sudden. I don't think it was losing money and the people I know involved with the original said it was still profitable. It never appeared on TKTS towards the end of the run. I think Cameron was just trying to advance something he had planned for 10 years' time because he didn't want 2 prolonged shutdowns. |
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Post by Jon on Nov 25, 2021 19:26:36 GMT
I agree that ALW would have wanted a bigger orchestra and would have preferred the actual physical production to have been the original, but my understanding is that ALW *had* to sign off Cameron's decision. Maybe Cameron gave him an ultimatum, e.g. 'it's the tour version or nothing', but ultimately ALW did sign off on it. And his constant telling the press that he's not the producer of the show is simply untrue and I'm not surprised Cameron has had enough of him saying that. It's been a bad press week for ALW but I can't help thinking he's brought all of this on himself with his poor decision-making and constant attempts to spin everything in his favour. He ends up coming across as a desperate fibber. I suspect Cameron knew ALW wouldn't let Phantom close permanently so he was able to get his way. |
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Post by sukhavati on Nov 30, 2021 4:17:33 GMT
I agree that ALW would have wanted a bigger orchestra and would have preferred the actual physical production to have been the original, but my understanding is that ALW *had* to sign off Cameron's decision. Maybe Cameron gave him an ultimatum, e.g. 'it's the tour version or nothing', but ultimately ALW did sign off on it. And his constant telling the press that he's not the producer of the show is simply untrue and I'm not surprised Cameron has had enough of him saying that. It's been a bad press week for ALW but I can't help thinking he's brought all of this on himself with his poor decision-making and constant attempts to spin everything in his favour. He ends up coming across as a desperate fibber. I suspect Cameron knew ALW wouldn't let Phantom close permanently so he was able to get his way. Those two have had a good cop/bad cop double act going for ages. If you revisit the Phantom documentary made for an anniversary, Cammack makes it clear he had to be the hatchet man when various people were let go during the run up to the show. Also noted in ALW's autobiography a fist fight between Cammack and Michael Crawford over singing live in the Red Death mask when Crawford swore it was going to eff up how his voice was projected to the audience, ALW claiming that he was helpless to stop them. He seems to like doing that - drama all around innocent him. I can remember hearing a story about Barbara Walters confronting ALW at a New York party over the rumors that MC wouldn't be in the film and ALW claiming that when the dust settled, no one would care - implied, not my fault, you'll love it. And of course now, "wouldn't it have been wonderful if we'd had the original cast on film?" ALW seems to thrive on the image of the affable creative, but he's made the odd remark about being able to keep the money he's earned with conservative governments in power, and someone I knew from one of the theatres pointed out that ALW flew in on a private jet for a vote in the House of Lords regarding tax matters, so I suspect he's better at hiding his money hunger. I agree if he was all that emotionally invested in the show remaining as it was, he could have A) not committed to such an extravagant refurbishing of Drury Lane Theatre and B) sold another theatre.
I did take a look at some of my old souvenir books, and RUG is listed as a co-producer with Cammack in the Crawford days, and my most recent version read Cameron Mackintosh and the Really Useful Theatre Company, Ltd.
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Post by inthenose on Nov 30, 2021 9:20:54 GMT
I suspect Cameron knew ALW wouldn't let Phantom close permanently so he was able to get his way. Those two have had a good cop/bad cop double act going for ages. If you revisit the Phantom documentary made for an anniversary, Cammack makes it clear he had to be the hatchet man when various people were let go during the run up to the show. Also noted in ALW's autobiography a fist fight between Cammack and Michael Crawford over singing live in the Red Death mask when Crawford swore it was going to eff up how his voice was projected to the audience, ALW claiming that he was helpless to stop them. He seems to like doing that - drama all around innocent him. I can remember hearing a story about Barbara Walters confronting ALW at a New York party over the rumors that MC wouldn't be in the film and ALW claiming that when the dust settled, no one would care - implied, not my fault, you'll love it. And of course now, "wouldn't it have been wonderful if we'd had the original cast on film?" ALW seems to thrive on the image of the affable creative, but he's made the odd remark about being able to keep the money he's earned with conservative governments in power, and someone I knew from one of the theatres pointed out that ALW flew in on a private jet for a vote in the House of Lords regarding tax matters, so I suspect he's better at hiding his money hunger. I agree if he was all that emotionally invested in the show remaining as it was, he could have A) not committed to such an extravagant refurbishing of Drury Lane Theatre and B) sold another theatre.
I did take a look at some of my old souvenir books, and RUG is listed as a co-producer with Cammack in the Crawford days, and my most recent version read Cameron Mackintosh and the Really Useful Theatre Company, Ltd.
Interesting post, thank you. |
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Post by scarpia on Nov 30, 2021 14:02:25 GMT
I suspect Cameron knew ALW wouldn't let Phantom close permanently so he was able to get his way. Those two have had a good cop/bad cop double act going for ages. If you revisit the Phantom documentary made for an anniversary, Cammack makes it clear he had to be the hatchet man when various people were let go during the run up to the show. Also noted in ALW's autobiography a fist fight between Cammack and Michael Crawford over singing live in the Red Death mask when Crawford swore it was going to eff up how his voice was projected to the audience, ALW claiming that he was helpless to stop them. He seems to like doing that - drama all around innocent him. I can remember hearing a story about Barbara Walters confronting ALW at a New York party over the rumors that MC wouldn't be in the film and ALW claiming that when the dust settled, no one would care - implied, not my fault, you'll love it. And of course now, "wouldn't it have been wonderful if we'd had the original cast on film?" ALW seems to thrive on the image of the affable creative, but he's made the odd remark about being able to keep the money he's earned with conservative governments in power, and someone I knew from one of the theatres pointed out that ALW flew in on a private jet for a vote in the House of Lords regarding tax matters, so I suspect he's better at hiding his money hunger. I agree if he was all that emotionally invested in the show remaining as it was, he could have A) not committed to such an extravagant refurbishing of Drury Lane Theatre and B) sold another theatre.
I did take a look at some of my old souvenir books, and RUG is listed as a co-producer with Cammack in the Crawford days, and my most recent version read Cameron Mackintosh and the Really Useful Theatre Company, Ltd.
Very much this. Cameron told the press last year the following: " His company is the co-producer. It was just Andrew being ‘the artist’. When it suits him he’s the lonely artist and when he wants to put on a show he’s the showman. He has always been like that. I just get on with things." ( Here's the source). And this... " Andrew has been entirely involved with every decision to do with Phantom in London, because he not only co-owns the rights, but he owns the theatre." ( Here's the source). Also pretty much every biography of ALW, plus the memoirs of his former collaborators (e.g. Tim Rice), all state that ALW likes to project an image of being an artist who's not interested in business when, in reality, he's very into the business/commercial side of things. After all, that's the whole point he set up RUG in the first place when he broke from Stigwood. |
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Post by daisy24601 on Dec 3, 2021 11:03:42 GMT
Killian Donnelly must have a great agent, he seems to have more holidays than Thomas Cook.
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Post by tom on Dec 3, 2021 11:59:57 GMT
Killian Donnelly must have a great agent, he seems to have more holidays than Thomas Cook. He wasn’t great as Phantom when I saw him so I wouldn’t be bothered if he was out when I went. |
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 3, 2021 12:21:39 GMT
Killian Donnelly must have a great agent, he seems to have more holidays than Thomas Cook. He wasn’t great as Phantom when I saw him so I wouldn’t be bothered if he was out when I went. Yeah, being cast in the first place was the agent’s real coup! |
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Post by greeny11 on Dec 3, 2021 12:52:55 GMT
James Gant is one of the best Phantoms I've seen, so Killian being off is hardly a bad thing.
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Post by Jon on Dec 3, 2021 18:31:54 GMT
Very much this. Cameron told the press last year the following: " His company is the co-producer. It was just Andrew being ‘the artist’. When it suits him he’s the lonely artist and when he wants to put on a show he’s the showman. He has always been like that. I just get on with things." ( Here's the source). And this... " Andrew has been entirely involved with every decision to do with Phantom in London, because he not only co-owns the rights, but he owns the theatre." ( Here's the source). Also pretty much every biography of ALW, plus the memoirs of his former collaborators (e.g. Tim Rice), all state that ALW likes to project an image of being an artist who's not interested in business when, in reality, he's very into the business/commercial side of things. After all, that's the whole point he set up RUG in the first place when he broke from Stigwood. I get the feeling ALW doesn't really care that much about the theatres he owns apart from perhaps the Palladium, Drury Lane and Her Maj and his constant threat of selling them to me comes across as empty given he's sold 7 theatres in the two decades whereas other theatre owners have more acquired theatres. Cameron in comparison does seem to care about the theatres he owns and has spent a fair bit of money of every one of them. |
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Post by TallPaul on Dec 27, 2021 9:52:36 GMT
Fascinating two hour Phantom documentary yesterday afternoon in Elaine's usual slot on Radio 2. Most of the key players involved, including people we never normally hear from, like Charles Hart. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0012rsfI'll leave it for others to decide if everyone was being 100% truthful, especially about the recent changes, but for me it was a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ listen. |
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Post by steve10086 on Dec 27, 2021 11:04:49 GMT
Fascinating two hour Phantom documentary yesterday afternoon in Elaine's usual slot on Radio 2. Most of the key players involved, including people we never normally hear from, like Charles Hart. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0012rsfI'll leave it for others to decide if everyone was being 100% truthful, especially about the recent changes, but for me it was a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ listen. Was going to listen to this, but I’ve heard about all the bull$hitting around the changes and I think it would just wind me up too much! |
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Post by scarpia on Dec 27, 2021 12:50:10 GMT
Fascinating two hour Phantom documentary yesterday afternoon in Elaine's usual slot on Radio 2. Most of the key players involved, including people we never normally hear from, like Charles Hart. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0012rsfI'll leave it for others to decide if everyone was being 100% truthful, especially about the recent changes, but for me it was a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ listen. It was all right; most of the stories we've heard time and time again (including Charles Hart's stories). The only one that was new to me was Crawford's mention of the hospitalised child that he said inspired him. The part about what happened after the pandemic hit was badly covered. The programme description says the show "returned with a vengeance", and at the beginning Luke Evans said the show was "fresher than ever". I'm not sure why the BBC is being used to do promo pieces for Sir Cameron with no probing. Nothing was mentioned about the scenic or orchestral reductions. And Cameron's insistence that Prince and Björnson would have approved of what he's done, when he has literally removed what Prince himself said was "key to the show" and Björnson's favourite setpiece seems highly improbable. I'm surprised Sklar-Heyn got away with relaying Hal Prince's real thoughts on whether the story really lends itself to a sequel (which weren't new to me, but I figured he wouldn't want to be so open about this given who he's getting his £££ from at the moment). ALW's mention of Prince's comments that one scene should start before the previous finishes seems odd given the new production in some places goes against what Prince was trying to do, such as the start of the title song. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 27, 2021 13:00:27 GMT
The programme was subtitled “celebrating 35 years of phantom of the opera” so it’s not surprising that they didn’t make it a bitchfest about the creative’s shortcomings.
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Post by scarpia on Dec 27, 2021 13:10:35 GMT
The programme was subtitled “celebrating 35 years of phantom of the opera” so it’s not surprising that they didn’t make it a bitchfest about the creative’s shortcomings. I certainly don't expect the BBC to do a bitchfest, but making advertising-speak statements such as those I've quoted rather exceeds the brief - this wasn't a review of the show. And is rather concerning given this is all funded by the licence fee payer and the BBC is supposed to be objective. Asking Cameron about the reasons for the downsizing doesn't take away from celebrating 35 years of the show. There were also a few factual inaccuracies but nothing major. They seemed to imply Ken Hill's version was the first stage adaptation of the novel, which is not true, and it's certainly not true that the whole chandelier of the Paris Opéra fell in 1896 as Luke Evans said. ALW seems to protest too much in saying the plot is basically his and he took very little from the novel. Virtually every scene from the show can be found in the novel (albeit in a different order), the exceptions being the auction and the idea that Don Juan is performed. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Dec 27, 2021 13:23:10 GMT
Well it’s made me launch the Sounds app for the first time in as long as I can remember so it’s mission accomplished for the BBC. Whilst I’m no fan of it as an institution, knowing their political leanings I don’t buy that they deem it necessary to suck up to ALW and CM. What they’re doing here is celebrating what is a huge achievement for the creatives and an institution of British theatre. Asking CM about the downsizing is a different programme and one that I suspect there wouldn’t be much interest in amongst the typical BBC radio audience.
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Post by scarpia on Dec 27, 2021 13:44:36 GMT
Well it’s made me launch the Sounds app for the first time in as long as I can remember so it’s mission accomplished for the BBC. Whilst I’m no fan of it as an institution, knowing their political leanings I don’t buy that they deem it necessary to suck up to ALW and CM. What they’re doing here is celebrating what is a huge achievement for the creatives and an institution of British theatre. Asking CM about the downsizing is a different programme and one that I suspect there wouldn’t be much interest in amongst the typical BBC radio audience. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the show in the way you describe. What I'm taking issue with is just giving Cameron a carte blanche to give his usual PR statement on the new production without questioning its basis in fact. If they don't want to deal with what happened, they could have just said that it closed during lockdown and reopened and left it at that. No need for the "bigger and better than ever" guff. |
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Post by ceebee on Dec 27, 2021 21:33:18 GMT
I thought the programme was excellent.
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Post by sukhavati on Jan 1, 2022 2:04:27 GMT
Well it’s made me launch the Sounds app for the first time in as long as I can remember so it’s mission accomplished for the BBC. Whilst I’m no fan of it as an institution, knowing their political leanings I don’t buy that they deem it necessary to suck up to ALW and CM. What they’re doing here is celebrating what is a huge achievement for the creatives and an institution of British theatre. Asking CM about the downsizing is a different programme and one that I suspect there wouldn’t be much interest in amongst the typical BBC radio audience. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the show in the way you describe. What I'm taking issue with is just giving Cameron a carte blanche to give his usual PR statement on the new production without questioning its basis in fact. If they don't want to deal with what happened, they could have just said that it closed during lockdown and reopened and left it at that. No need for the "bigger and better than ever" guff. The "bigger and better" definitely sounds like a paid advert. Because it's the exact talking point that both Cammack and ALW have been making since restaging the tours. Once it was decided to bring the show back to HM's, same exact phrase. If they'd used a different cliché, it would seem less like a promo hammering home identical key words. |
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Post by bimse on Jan 2, 2022 8:02:17 GMT
I don’t know if this is the correct place to post this but I wonder if there are any plans to relaunch the Phantom of the Opera UK tour which was cancelled due to the pandemic?
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Post by steve10086 on Jan 2, 2022 8:46:50 GMT
I don’t know if this is the correct place to post this but I wonder if there are any plans to relaunch the Phantom of the Opera UK tour which was cancelled due to the pandemic? The set for the tour is now in Her Majesty’s isn’t it? Can’t see CM forming out for another one. |
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Post by 141920grm on Jan 2, 2022 10:16:46 GMT
I don’t know if this is the correct place to post this but I wonder if there are any plans to relaunch the Phantom of the Opera UK tour which was cancelled due to the pandemic? and please take this cast and set back out on tour when it does relaunch, lol! |
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Post by scarpia on Jan 2, 2022 11:32:11 GMT
I don’t know if this is the correct place to post this but I wonder if there are any plans to relaunch the Phantom of the Opera UK tour which was cancelled due to the pandemic? The set for the tour is now in Her Majesty’s isn’t it? Can’t see CM forming out for another one. Well they told the 1986 investors they were using a lot of those sets and therefore taking a hit on other productions that won't happen now, including the UK tour. That was their reasoning for cutting those investors out of the new London production as they said they needed to make as many savings as possible to break even. Because, you know, putting Phantom in the West End is such a risky thing to do...🙄 |
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Post by richey on Jan 4, 2022 18:00:40 GMT
Just had an email regarding a reduction in performances from next week.
I'd only just booked a ticket for a performance at the end of January under the offer they were running, now they have decided to cancel Monday evening and Thursday matinees from next week until beginning of Feb so there goes my ticket!
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