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Post by sukhavati on Oct 23, 2021 21:28:07 GMT
Presume it’s Live Entertainment or Livent who were the producers of Phantom in Toronto (and Ragtime, Showboat, Kiss of the Spiderwoman and a few other things before they went bust due to financial improprieties) Yes, it's Livent, founded by Garth Drabinksy. He was convicted and sent to prison in 2009 for fraud and forgery. But now he's bringing a new show to Broadway, "Paradise Square", which opens early next year. So unlike the likes of Scott Rudin, who has stepped back from his theatre and film projects, Drabinksy has never been held accountable for his abusive behaviour (I don't think Phantom was an isolated incident), and is the reason for Rebecca speaking out with her "Bring Back Better" posts. If you've been watching her social media posts, she's mentioned how Drabinsky's attorney has made offers for Drabinsky to speak at unis/business organizations/performing arts schools about bringing the arts back in an "ethical"/moral way. The lack of self-awareness boggles the mind.
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Post by sukhavati on Oct 24, 2021 6:49:04 GMT
Who saw Crawford and Brightman and what were they like? Also any anecdotes about Crawford being a complete diva such as summoning other cast members to his dressing room and giving them notes are always welcome 😀 Back to this...
This soundboard recording just got posted on YouTube. This is Crawford in his prime toward the end of his Los Angeles run. If you listen to this, or his CD of Andrew Lloyd Webber tunes, then contrast with the OLC recording it's like night and day.
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Post by anthony on Oct 24, 2021 9:14:17 GMT
For anyone interested in the day seats, I got Row C in the Dress Circle.
The seats are OK for £30, but they are the seats that are normally band B, but are on the curve - any other musical would have them as restricted view, but I guess because you get a perfect view of the chandelier, they get away with it...
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Post by anthony on Oct 24, 2021 14:52:21 GMT
Currently the interval. I’ll post revised thoughts later, but they’ve changed the safety curtain again. Gone is the back faux curtain, now it’s just a black screen. No pictures/drawing. Just a black screen.
We have u/s Phantom.
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Post by anthony on Oct 24, 2021 19:14:13 GMT
I really enjoyed the matinee today! There are still some things that really irritate me about the changes (lyric changes, primarily!)
The Good: I saw this back in early August, just after it reopened and commented that the cast wasn't great. I've changed my mind - Lucy was amazing this afternoon, as was Rhys. Saori Oda has really grown into the role - she was brilliant today. She's clearly worked a lot on her diction and comedy timing. She was really great today! We had James Gant as the Phantom, who was good - better than Donnelly. Only slight issue with Gant was that AIAOY Reprise was started in the wrong key, which meant he had no where to go as the song progressed, which resulted in quite a strained few moments of singing. His final lair was brilliant, as was his PONR. Lucy and James had a lot of chemistry and worked really well as a pair. The chandelier also seems to have had more detail added to it (which I think was commented earlier)
The Bad: When I saw it in August, I said Greg Castiglioni was the saving point of the cast (and he's brilliant overall! He was delightful in Woman in White!) but today he was awful. I don't know if he's bored and he's trying to make things funny just to get through the show, but it was too much. From oogling the slave master and pretty much every single male cast member in the ensemble during Hannibal, to hiding behind the bed during Il Muto and pulling stupid faces when Carlotta's voice breaks (this never happened before, did it? I've seen Phantom a stupid amount of times and never noticed this? Either way, it was extremely distracting) and him trying to get the attention of the male ensemble during Il Muto to him having his tongue stuck out when he's been hanged in a really comic way. It was just too much, to the point it distracted too much.
I still really hate the set during All I Ask of You. I don't understand why they have went for a comic book depiction of the opera house. It doesn't match any other sets and it's completely out of place. It looks silly.
Overall, it's certainly better than when I saw it in August. The cast have mostly improved significantly, but there is just something missing. It lacks charm... and I'm unsure if it's the actors or the changes.
In regards to the discussion earlier about the doubles during the title song - they use doubles for the first walk across the bridge. The doubles then walk behind the curtain and the actors playing Phantom and Christine come out for remainder.
Still no souvenir brochure.
Also, to the couple eating Butterkist popcorn in row D of the royal circle... I hope you chipped a tooth on it x
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Post by scarpia on Oct 24, 2021 19:30:34 GMT
I still really hate the set during All I Ask of You. I don't understand why they have went for a comic book depiction of the opera house. It doesn't match any other sets and it's completely out of place. It looks silly. And whatever Cameron says, Maria Björnson didn't design that. And she'd not have stood for it. Poor Björnson seems to get given the responsibility for a lot of Cameron's/Andrew's decisions in the last decade when she's not been here to set the record straight. The Broadway set is looking as magnificent as ever, fortunately.
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Post by Dawnstar on Oct 24, 2021 20:23:30 GMT
There are still some things that really irritate me about the changes (lyric changes, primarily!) Have there been many lyric changes? Offhand I can only recall that one line change has been mentioned on this thread, Meg's "Your face, Christine, its white."
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Post by anthony on Oct 24, 2021 21:01:20 GMT
There are still some things that really irritate me about the changes (lyric changes, primarily!) Have there been many lyric changes? Offhand I can only recall that one line change has been mentioned on this thread, Meg's "Your face, Christine, its white." There are a couple - a lot of Raoul's bits during Prima Donna, a couple of changes in the final lair too. I think my main issue with them is because I know what it used to be, so to me, it is really quite jarring, rather than them being bad substitutes. "I hardly thought we'd be so blessed" rather than "I had rather hoped that you would come" is the thing that annoys me the most! It just makes no sense to change it?!?!?!
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Post by Dawnstar on Oct 24, 2021 21:10:02 GMT
There are a couple - a lot of Raoul's bits during Prima Donna, a couple of changes in the final lair too. I think my main issue with them is because I know what it used to be, so to me, it is really quite jarring, rather than them being bad substitutes. "I hardly thought we'd be so blessed" rather than "I had rather hoped that you would come" is the thing that annoys me the most! It just makes no sense to change it?!?!?!
I can quite understand that. I spent years listening to the OLCR before finally seeing Phantom live for the first time in 2008. I've seen Phantom live about 30 times (pre-covid) & each time found it jarring that some lines had been changed from the OLCR. I particularly miss Carlotta's outburst after Piangi's body is found. So it's probably good that I won't be seeing the new version for the forseeable future as it sound like it's just give me more causes to feel slightly irked!
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Post by danb on Oct 25, 2021 5:05:17 GMT
Perhaps the composer or lyricist have never been totally happy with the flow of the lines and took the opportunity to change them. The show isn’t a bit of fossil in a museum, it’s a living breathing thing.
It is written in the ‘Story of Rent’ book that Jonathan Larson was unhappy with one line and planned to change it before his untimely death, and I often wonder what it was and if he ever communicated it to anyone else. If people want identikit performances every time they should just put the cd on. I really see nothing wrong with tightening up loose linguistics or clumsy phrasing.
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Post by 141920grm on Oct 25, 2021 5:46:07 GMT
hate this final lair lyric change too 😂 as much as i support the continued endeavours to make the show flow smoother, i just think that complexity of phrasing and multilayered meanings would be detrimental to this exact point in the show where emotions are building up and audiences would probably want to focus on the live tension rather then decipher a randomly more sophisticated turn of phrase
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Post by anthony on Oct 25, 2021 9:48:14 GMT
Perhaps the composer or lyricist have never been totally happy with the flow of the lines and took the opportunity to change them. The show isn’t a bit of fossil in a museum, it’s a living breathing thing. It is written in the ‘Story of Rent’ book that Jonathan Larson was unhappy with one line and planned to change it before his untimely death, and I often wonder what it was and if he ever communicated it to anyone else. If people want identikit performances every time they should just put the cd on. I really see nothing wrong with tightening up loose linguistics or clumsy phrasing. I'd argue that "I hardly thought we'd be so blessed" is significantly more clumsy than "I had rather hoped that you would come". Another change I dislike is Christine falling to the floor in Music of the Night. I assume the sole reason is because of Seth Sklar-Heyn being brought in from the broadway version. In relation to Broadway, has there been any changes? I notice that Seth has been promoted there too - prior to lockdown he was Production Supervisor, he's now been promoted to director on the broadway version also, implying that some changes may have occurred there too?
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Post by greeny11 on Oct 26, 2021 5:16:49 GMT
Saw this last night and was pleasantly surprised by how much of the original production was still there based on comments here. I did notice the changes mentioned, but was somehow expecting more changes. I didn't care for any of the lyric changes, I prefer the original lyrics in most case - and don't think the new lyrics added anything. I did like the new chandelier effects, and the end of act 1 with the Phantom on the statue was good - as it came round on the stage, with the slight underscoring, it did give me the creeps (in a good way). There were only 2 times when I noticed the reduced orchestra - the final chorus of Masquerade and in the Final Lair. It definitely didn't sound as full as it used to during those scenes.
Cast wise, we had James Gant as the Phantom, and he is already one of my favourite Phantoms - such a strong voice. I also really liked Lucy St Louis and Rhys Whitfield, who both had very strong voices and good chemistry as Christine and Raoul - Lucy's high note at the end of the title song sounded a bit odd though. Understudy Carlotta and Piangi were good, as were the managers, and I really enjoyed Francesca Ellis as Mme Giry.
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Post by og on Oct 26, 2021 12:22:31 GMT
Did they change the line in the Final Lair that's been stuck in the show since 1986 but doesn't make any sense?
Phantom: "So do you end your days with me, or do you send him to his grave?"
This line has never made sense to me. The choice Christine is presented with in the Final Lair is either: A) Stay with the Phantom and Raoul is let free to go off and never disturb them. Or B) Christine can go and live her life without the Phantom, but Raoul must die as a consequence. 'Start a new life with me, buy his freedom with your love! Refuse me, and you send your lover to his death! This is the choice.... This is the point of no return'
Yet lyrically, this line confuses the choice by offering the same option.
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Post by steve10086 on Oct 26, 2021 12:40:01 GMT
Did they change the line in the Final Lair that's been stuck in the show since 1986 but doesn't make any sense? Phantom: " So do you end your days with me, or do you send him to his grave?" This line has never made sense to me. The choice Christine is presented with in the Final Lair is either: A) Stay with the Phantom and Raoul is let free to go off and never disturb them. Or B) Christine can go and live her life without the Phantom, but Raoul must die as a consequence. 'Start a new life with me, buy his freedom with your love! Refuse me, and you send your lover to his death! This is the choice.... This is the point of no return'Yet lyrically, this line confuses the choice by offering the same option. Really can’t see the problem here.
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Post by danb on Oct 26, 2021 12:43:38 GMT
Choosing between two completely different options? Stay with Phantom -Raoul lives. Leave Phantom - Raoul dies. Not that similar.
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Post by dan28 on Oct 26, 2021 13:01:28 GMT
Did they change the line in the Final Lair that's been stuck in the show since 1986 but doesn't make any sense? Phantom: " So do you end your days with me, or do you send him to his grave?" lyrically, this line confuses the choice by offering the same option. In my opinion it is not the same option. She either stays with Phantom, or (if she doesn't) he sends Raoul to his grave. This is the case in this line, as well as in the following lyrics you described. Maybe we have a different interpretation of "ending days"? I think they mean the "ending days" as in the final days of their lives, when they grew old. But it can also be interpreted as "ending the days we have spent". Which then would indeed mean the same, because that would mean she chooses Raoul and then the Phantom would send him to his grave. Now if the line would have been: "So do you end your days with him, or do you send him to his grave?". That would have been the same option.
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Post by anthony on Oct 26, 2021 13:12:37 GMT
Saw this last night and was pleasantly surprised by how much of the original production was still there based on comments here. I did notice the changes mentioned, but was somehow expecting more changes. I didn't care for any of the lyric changes, I prefer the original lyrics in most case - and don't think the new lyrics added anything. I did like the new chandelier effects, and the end of act 1 with the Phantom on the statue was good - as it came round on the stage, with the slight underscoring, it did give me the creeps (in a good way). There were only 2 times when I noticed the reduced orchestra - the final chorus of Masquerade and in the Final Lair. It definitely didn't sound as full as it used to during those scenes. Cast wise, we had James Gant as the Phantom, and he is already one of my favourite Phantoms - such a strong voice. I also really liked Lucy St Louis and Rhys Whitfield, who both had very strong voices and good chemistry as Christine and Raoul - Lucy's high note at the end of the title song sounded a bit odd though. Understudy Carlotta and Piangi were good, as were the managers, and I really enjoyed Francesca Ellis as Mme Giry. Did you notice if the u/s Piangi also flirted with the slave master (and most other male ensemble members?) I don't want to be so stuck up on it, but it is just a change that I don't understand in the slightest. During Hannibal, the slave master and Piangi openly flirt with each other. Piangi then continues to check out every other male on stage. During Il Muto, Piangi finds himself behind the bed, pulling funny faces and then is more concerned with the "Slave Master" (I assume it's the same person in the musical in terms of character, if that makes sense!) and making sure he's OK (He's trying to gesture to him as the Phantom laughs), only to then run off the stage with Carlotta. It's continued throughout act 1, implying that Piangi and the slave master are having an affair. It makes literally zero sense...
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Post by steve10086 on Oct 26, 2021 13:39:10 GMT
Choosing between two completely different options? Stay with Phantom -Raoul lives. Leave Phantom - Raoul dies. Not that similar. Exactly! The line makes perfect sense.
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Post by greeny11 on Oct 26, 2021 14:17:49 GMT
Sorry, my wording was poor, we had the principal Piangi. I'll be honest, I wasn't particularly paying close attention to him, but his Piangi was definitely more interested in men than he was Carlotta, so it wouldn't have surprised me if he was.
Incidentally, I'd seen Killian earlier in the day at the Apple store in Regent Street while I was in the process of buying a new phone, so I was a touch surprised when he wasn't on that night (presumably he was taking a planned day off), but I was pleased to have James Gant. In all honesty, I think James has a stronger voice for Phantom than Killian, so I would definitely be happy to see him as Phantom next time I go.
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Post by 141920grm on Oct 26, 2021 14:32:42 GMT
Broadway now uses the same script as London When I watched the UK Tour in Leicester, I'd rather thought they were using the Broadway script and some of its direction (aside from truly new lyric changes), which the West End Revival then adopted directly (according to people who've seen it), so would it not be "Broadway and London now use the same Broadway/UK Tour amalgamation"? lol By the way, has anyone noticed the bit of orchestration at the end of "Twisted Every Way" as Raoul declares war on the Phantom is now the World Tour version (originating from the latest run I think) instead of either past London/Broadway- more dramatic, dissonant winds and strings instead of just the arpeggios?
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Post by og on Oct 26, 2021 18:21:00 GMT
Choosing between two completely different options? Stay with Phantom -Raoul lives. Leave Phantom - Raoul dies. Not that similar. Maybe I've been completely misunderstanding something all these years with the language but lyrically there isn't an offer to stay with the phantom. "So do you end your days with me, Or do you send him to his grave?" Phantom asks her if she's going to leave him (' end your days with me' - Raoul dies) or if Raoul is sent ' to his grave'.As I see it, its the same option twice. Option 1 - End your days with meChristine lives, leaves phantom, Raoul dies. Option 2 - Send him to his graveRaoul dies, Christine is freed from Phantom.
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Post by steve10086 on Oct 26, 2021 18:33:54 GMT
Choosing between two completely different options? Stay with Phantom -Raoul lives. Leave Phantom - Raoul dies. Not that similar. Maybe I've been completely misunderstanding something all these years with the language but lyrically there isn't an offer to stay with the phantom. "So do you end your days with me, Or do you send him to his grave?" Phantom asks her if she's going to leave him (' end your days with me' - Raoul dies) or if Raoul is sent ' to his grave'.As I see it, its the same option twice. Option 1 - End your days with meChristine lives, leaves phantom, Raoul dies. Option 2 - Send him to his graveRaoul dies, Christine is freed from Phantom. “So do your end your days with me” means stay with me until the end of your days. Doesn’t mean leave him!
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Post by anthony on Oct 26, 2021 18:55:18 GMT
Ooops.
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Post by og on Oct 26, 2021 18:59:17 GMT
Maybe I've been completely misunderstanding something all these years with the language but lyrically there isn't an offer to stay with the phantom. "So do you end your days with me, Or do you send him to his grave?" Phantom asks her if she's going to leave him (' end your days with me' - Raoul dies) or if Raoul is sent ' to his grave'.As I see it, its the same option twice. Option 1 - End your days with meChristine lives, leaves phantom, Raoul dies. Option 2 - Send him to his graveRaoul dies, Christine is freed from Phantom. “So do your end your days with me” means stay with me until the end of your days. Doesn’t mean leave him! hahahahahahha This has pecked my brain for years. Never knew that, so its a figure of speech. Mind blown. I've always had end in that context as finish.
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