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Post by max on Jul 28, 2021 23:56:25 GMT
Daniel Whit - I'm sure the original creatives are talked about constantly. If I was basking in their glory I'd namecheck them the whole time as it must feel great. But I'd be aware of whose magical box of tricks I was lucky to be working with, and I just couldn't go against things I knew they considered fundamental to their vision. But if I DID, I'd talk about them even more, as a cover up.
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Post by anthony on Jul 28, 2021 23:57:12 GMT
What exactly is shameful? People are allowed their own opinions - and hers, that people should comment when they've seen it and not be negative about changes made for safety reasons, isn't outlandish. People here have made the same observations over the last year or so. Yes, there's a potential problem with tone here, but the substance isn't problematic - certainly not enough to be fired for as at least one commentator suggested. Plus, she's in a far better position than the rest of us to know if the original creatives are spoken about in the rehearsal room / theatre. And I'm sure you realise yesterday would not have been her first day on the job. Yeah, not shameful at all for a representative of the show to say that people who aren't happy with the changes should "get laid". |
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Post by inthenose on Jul 28, 2021 23:57:29 GMT
Totally unprofessional, childish, and just nasty. CM and RUG will be getting an email from me. Aside from that - ALW's note (added to the programme) said new technology enabled some things from Maria Bjornson's original vision that weren't achievable back in 1986. What are these? We know that her favourite element of set has been removed. but what has been added? I believe it's referring to the horse, which was going to be used in another scene as a "clockwork horse". |
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Post by inthenose on Jul 29, 2021 0:01:44 GMT
What exactly is shameful? People are allowed their own opinions - and hers, that people should comment when they've seen it and not be negative about changes made for safety reasons, isn't outlandish. People here have made the same observations over the last year or so. Yes, there's a potential problem with tone here, but the substance isn't problematic - certainly not enough to be fired for as at least one commentator suggested. Plus, she's in a far better position than the rest of us to know if the original creatives are spoken about in the rehearsal room / theatre. And I'm sure you realise yesterday would not have been her first day on the job. Very bad idea for very replaceable production crew to get into arguments with fans on social media. Worse idea still to tell them to "get laid". Extremely unprofessional and if one of my production team did that it would be very hard to defend why they shouldn't be dismissed for bring disrepute to the brand. I am surprised you don't see anything wrong with it. It's 2021, you simply can't behave that way on Twitter |
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Post by westendboy on Jul 29, 2021 0:13:30 GMT
According to someone who did a video review of the show, he was told by a few workers for LW Theatres that the reason for the Angel's removal "wasn't a planned change" and it happened due to the Angel's maintanance and the repair costs.
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 29, 2021 0:54:30 GMT
What exactly is shameful?
People are allowed their own opinions - and hersPlus, she's in a far better position than the rest of us to know if the original creatives are spoken about in the rehearsal room / theatre. And I'm sure you realise yesterday would not have been her first day on the job. I'm amazed you don't see a problem with this, yes of course everyone is allowed an opinion and the right to express it crassly, but on a public Twitter with her name, face, and job role stated clearly in her bio? 😂 Not the wisest idea professionally, do I really have to state it out? To be clear, the utter lack of professionalism and self-awareness is what's "shameful", esp in any kind of public sphere where you are representing your place of work in some capacity. Thanks to posters above explaining why tone is everything, on social media, in this day and age. Maybe it's a generational difference but words like these on social media are perceived quite seriously these days, even more so if one's account is not private for friends only, and it's total strangers (every one a potential patron) she's telling to "get laid". Hope her family raised her with better manners than that- I was not shaming "aimee, freelance stage manager. ASM book cover, @phantomopera west end" for giving her version of events re the running of the show, I'm shaming her for her complete rudeness and vulgarity. Months into her job, really she should have known better before clicking Send Tweet on the first day * that excessive public attention will be focused on her workplace, everyone associated with it and anything they say on public social media! |
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Post by mrbarnaby on Jul 29, 2021 3:37:40 GMT
Oh dear. Silly silly mistake for her to make. I have a feeling she will regret it pretty fast.
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Post by og on Jul 29, 2021 6:54:30 GMT
What is it with this show's stage management and social media. Nothing ever happened to the DSM who tweeted pictures of man asleep on the front row on the Conductor Cam, nothing will happen here either.
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Post by og on Jul 29, 2021 6:58:37 GMT
People think they cut what they did for safety reasons? I could see that with the Angel...but not anything else. That proscenium wasn't harming anyone.... Referring you to my previous reply: They don't, I'm afraid. This is the Leicester design that butchers the proscenium. The sole reason is because they won't employ two stagehands to remove the drapes that used to cover the gorgeous sculptures that used to adorn the sides. ... The original false prosc was pretty restrictive in terms of allowing maintenance for the hired sound equipment and HMT's actual proscenium, so as brutalistic as this change may appear, it was pretty necessary to ensure that vital care of the 130yr old theatre. The original show's proc prevented adequate maintenance of the theatre's structure, which ultimately if left as it was would have caused severe damage. |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 29, 2021 7:35:49 GMT
She's entitled to her view. Enough folk on this thread have views. Yes, her language is clumsy but maybe she's as bored as everybody else about the eternal debate over this show.
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 29, 2021 7:45:34 GMT
She's entitled to her view. Enough folk on this thread have views. Yes, her language is clumsy but maybe she's as bored as everybody else about the eternal debate over this show. For the last time, I am NOT criticising her for expressing her views, I am just shocked at the lack of respect towards strangers, patrons who keep her in a job!! Gosh, maybe it really is the generational difference here, but what you call “clumsy language” (clumsy! she wielded her words with intent) would be a definite strike against her character in the field where I work. I don’t think everyone goes online being an absolute c*** to people whenever they’re “bored” ! 😂😂😂 Wow, it is so hard to get a point across here! |
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Post by steve10086 on Jul 29, 2021 7:49:07 GMT
Well I think we finally know the real reason the proscenium looks so cheap…
They were all too busy shagging each other to get it built!
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 29, 2021 7:58:09 GMT
Well I think we finally know the real reason the proscenium looks so cheap… They were all too busy shagging each other to get it built! And if anyone still believes this ASM’s careless language has no impact... I’m pretty sure the former Phantom orchestra members were NOT chuckling heartily as they replied to her tweet: |
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Post by 141920grm on Jul 29, 2021 8:00:32 GMT
Feels like whatever issue that is brought up here regarding the people behind the show, someone always manages to come up and defend it. It is 2021- basic manners and human decency is not a matter up for debate?!
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Post by properjob on Jul 29, 2021 8:22:35 GMT
Totally unprofessional, childish, and just nasty. CM and RUG will be getting an email from me. Aside from that - ALW's note (added to the programme) said new technology enabled some things from Maria Bjornson's original vision that weren't achievable back in 1986. What are these? We know that her favourite element of set has been removed. but what has been added? So she gets peed off with people slagging of her and her colleagues very hard work with very long days in the run up to reopening and in effect saying thier safety is less important than an artistic vision. An artistic vision that random people on the internet assume they know better than the people that worked for months/years on the project with the orginal creatives. She slightly snaps and tells them to "get out more" in slightly coarse language. She doesn't say it to you, you don't even know it has been said until someone tries to organise some bullying and so you decide to join in and try and get her sacked in the current climate for theatre. Imagine if it was about your actual job and I claimed to know more about it than you because I used your product once and tried to get a gang together to get you sacked. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Jul 29, 2021 8:28:01 GMT
Who knew that the reopening of Phantom would cause more arguments?
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Post by David J on Jul 29, 2021 8:28:10 GMT
There's a lot of gaslighting going on in media against fans of a beloved property. I've seen plenty of this in the entertainment industry.
Someone expresses concerns regarding changes to a tv show/established character/story etc., then someone involved with the production throws insults at them rather than address the criticism.
At the moment, Netflix released Masters of the Universe: Revelation and fans have raised concerns about changes to the characters. The creator Kevin Smith is going on a rampage telling them to grow up.
What companies need to do is have a social media policy stopping their workers doing this sort of thing. Stop tweeting all day, be professional and do your job. Maybe this woman will get fired but a lot of companies like to circle their wagons.
Makes me question what sort of creatives are now involved over at Her Majesty's
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Post by max on Jul 29, 2021 8:40:32 GMT
There's a lot of gaslighting going on in media against fans of a beloved property. I've seen plenty of this in the entertainment industry. Someone expresses concerns regarding changes to a tv show/established character/story etc., then someone involved with the production throws insults at them rather than address the criticism. At the moment, Netflix released Masters of the Universe: Revelation and fans have raised concerns about changes to the characters. The creator Kevin Smith is going on a rampage telling them to grow up. What companies need to do is have a social media policy stopping their workers doing this sort of thing. Stop tweeting all day, be professional and do your job. Maybe this woman will get fired but a lot of companies like to circle their wagons. Makes me question what sort of creatives are now involved over at Her Majesty's That's the bigger problem, this behaviour corroborates a suspicion already out there about cynicism and high handedness. That suspicion may have been unfair/unfounded, or just a bit too strongly stated, but she's fed that narrative and confirmed it in many eyes, and that's not good for the producers. Somewhere in a parallel universe there's footage of the cast meeting Brightman and Crawford (if only on Zoom); and 30 years of developments in lighter materials recreates the proscenium arch with different methods, and if the angel can't articulate as before (due to weight of mechanism needed and strain on original proscenium) that necessary change gets calmly explained. Instead the story has squirmed around and shifted, as ALW and CM have tussled in public. With their public spats maybe they set the tone for engagement within and without the production. |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 29, 2021 8:50:24 GMT
Totally unprofessional, childish, and just nasty. CM and RUG will be getting an email from me. Aside from that - ALW's note (added to the programme) said new technology enabled some things from Maria Bjornson's original vision that weren't achievable back in 1986. What are these? We know that her favourite element of set has been removed. but what has been added? So she gets peed off with people slagging of her and her colleagues very hard work with very long days in the run up to reopening and in effect saying thier safety is less important than an artistic vision. An artistic vision that random people on the internet assume they know better than the people that worked for months/years on the project with the orginal creatives. She slightly snaps and tells them to "get out more" in slightly coarse language. She doesn't say it to you, you don't even know it has been said until someone tries to organise some bullying and so you decide to join in and try and get her sacked in the current climate for theatre. Imagine if it was about your actual job and I claimed to know more about it than you because I used your product once and tried to get a gang together to get you sacked. Have I missed something? I can't actually find a post here where someone says she should be fired. Where is the so-called "bullying" that you describe? As far as I can tell, some people did not like the changes and did not even address such comments to her personally. Then she makes that comment and apparently the aggressors are those who are the target of that comment?! Weird. |
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Post by scarpia on Jul 29, 2021 8:55:58 GMT
People think they cut what they did for safety reasons? I could see that with the Angel...but not anything else. That proscenium wasn't harming anyone.... Referring you to my previous reply: ... The original false prosc was pretty restrictive in terms of allowing maintenance for the hired sound equipment and HMT's actual proscenium, so as brutalistic as this change may appear, it was pretty necessary to ensure that vital care of the 130yr old theatre. The original show's proc prevented adequate maintenance of the theatre's structure, which ultimately if left as it was would have caused severe damage. This is interesting. If true, I still don't think the ugly solution they've gone for is the right one. Björnson herself developed various alternatives to the original proscenium for international productions, none of which look as amateur as Matt Kinley's. I have some scepticism on the basis that the proscenium design was used first for the 2020 UK tour, and there the reason is simply to make the load-in easier, quicker, and less costly. So what they've come up with does not appear to be something developed specifically for Her Majesty's. |
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Post by ceebee on Jul 29, 2021 8:56:10 GMT
This all looks like a bit of a witch-hunt. Some people seem unnecessarily passionate about something that really doesn't matter that much. Social media is full of polarising figures and views - it's the world we live in.
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Post by ceebee on Jul 29, 2021 9:01:20 GMT
I kind of applaud what she has done - she's lit the fuse that some diehard Phans desperately wanted to vent their collective spleen. It's unhealthy to obsess so much over this stuff. Life evolves, as do shows.
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Post by scarpia on Jul 29, 2021 9:01:35 GMT
This all looks like a bit of a witch-hunt. Some people seem unnecessarily passionate about something that really doesn't matter that much. Social media is full of polarising figures and views - it's the world we live in. I still don't see anyone organising a so-called "witch hunt" (probably not the best phrase to use for a myriad of reasons). It's sad people find this kind of unprofessionalism and vulgarity acceptable. But then the same found Cameron's comments about the orchestra acceptable, so I shouldn't be surprised. |
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Post by TallPaul on Jul 29, 2021 9:06:49 GMT
If Aimee, as an insider, had taken to Twitter to criticise the new production, instead of defending it, she would have been lauded by the very same Phans who are now outraged by her candor.
I rather like her.
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Post by danb on Jul 29, 2021 9:09:53 GMT
Wow! The same people still hanging their entire life on this. Back/Forth/Back/Forth like a game of satanic ping pong. Maybe it should have just run until the building fell down around it…or the set stopped working.
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