The Phantom of the Opera - His Majesty's Theatre

Cameron Mackintosh is a billionaire, like Andrew Lloyd Webber, in Andrew’s case he wanted to move this musical into the London Palladium, Soon after it opened -but Cameron Mackintosh vetoed it, both have made a handsome fortune from this musical and more than likely still do, I’ve got no problem updating if the set is life expired, but here I can smell a rat and there is a ulterior motive to bring in a watered down version in to save money and this will look just as atrocious as the new Les Miserables does, done just to save money.

I am sorry but I don’t buy for 1 moment that because of Covid, it has allowed consultants to do a more detailed survey, that is hogwash, it doesn’t that long to do a survey and Cameron and Andrew would have had regular feedback from back of stage staff (Craftsmen) on the poor condition of the set.

The crew are not craftsmen, they're hired to move scenery (and they're very good at it). They're not giving daily updates to the producers about the set, issues will be raised with the master carpenter and stage manager, they'll be passed along to the company manager. Anything patch-able will be patched but you reach a point where you're patching a patch.

This would be the perfect time to get the specialists in to check everything because despite regular inspections of motors etc, sometimes it's not always possible to strip something down.

Unusual Rigging are an amazing company and they're involved with the UK tour, they say of the touring set:

“Phantom is an extremely heavy show, weighing in at more than 25 tonnes,” explains Unusual Rigging’s senior project manager Simon Stone. “There’s one piece of scenery downstage that weighs eight tonnes and has to be supported by a separate mini grid secured to the building. The famous Phantom chandelier, which has to swing in a treacherous fashion over the audience, weighs 500kg alone! Plus there are a couple of huge automated trucks on stage with a combined weight of 10 tonnes. These have to be stack built and then lifted into place at each venue. I think it’s safe to say this show is no easy task.”

I don't think this would be very feasible. The sheer number of costumes for both shows would be over whelming (not including the sets!), and I don't think the wing space in Her majestys could support both shows running at the same time. They would need a bigger theatre to support this phantom-love never dies hybrid. 

That’s why I said some clever set designer would be able to eventually work it out. Given the opportunity I’m sure someone could figure it out and if given free reign to re-direct and completely overall both shows... where there’s a will there’ll be a way.

Yes, exactly like Harry Potter. But way, way, way into the future and only if Phantom ever stops being profitable in its current form (which let’s face it, looks unlikely given it’s been going for 3 decades already).

To be honest, and again way into the future, I like the idea of a ‘Lloyd Webber Theatre’ with a company that does his musicals in rep. He has plenty of musicals to rotate through, and I’m sure there’ll be an audience for them in the future (especially if they’re the only ones licensed to do so). To be honest I see Sondheim ending up with something similar in NYC eventually too.

I wonder with such a long shut down, as you suggest, whether they will bring in the scraped UK tour into another West End theatre as a stop gap?

I think that’s one of the reasons the design is so genius. It’s actually very simple, mainly a black box with drapes.

Exactly, that's one of the major positives for the production.

I'm hoping that this extended closure and revamp does result in the audience having exactly the same experience as before but with significantly improved technology/safety underpinning it.

I can understand why, as posters have mentioned, some crew enjoy working on a production with technology that still harks back to the Victorian era. In that sense it is very much a working museum piece. However, if something went wrong and a crew or cast member became injured or worse during a performance owing to using frankly outdated technology, I think we'd all be sat here the next day rightly saying safety/technology upgrades should be put into place. This closure gives that chance. That said, personally I will miss hearing the large set pieces being rolled around on stage, it's a peculiar quirk of Phantom and adds to its charm.

Equally I can understand why, and entirely agree, a lot of people believe the production should remain identical in appearances. Yes, Phantom is very much a product of the 1980s, and yes the illusions are now a bit "naff", however no-one has suggested repainting the Mona Lisa because we could make her more life-like with modern painting techniques...

A few thoughts, trying to think dispassionately:

- Phantom has been there since 1986. You can hear the set ricketing around, wobbling (Christine's dressing room!) and (apparently) there are not infrequent non chandelier drop shows. I think is perfectly understandable that it needs updating for 2020. Both for efficiency, safety and appearance. Yes is a clever set design but I do now believe it could look slicker. The lightening bolt, the flame thrower thing and the non moving masquerade dummies look daft.

- There has never been any mention of bringing in the 25th anniversary tour and I am 100% sure they will not! So nobody needs to worry about the angel scene at end of act 1 being that one. Rather, surely they will bring in elements from this year's ill fated tour. So few of us have seen it we can't really judge but audience response seemed to be excellent. We also know that set was not 100% complete in Leicester due to the low proscenium and was to be 100% unveiled in Manchester.

- The West End is on its knees. They HAVE to save money. A highly dependent tourist show, in the short term they need to lure back repeat visitors from the UK. New ish version and some clever marketing may do this. And am not talking about the mega fans, I mean Joe Bloggs who has seen it once or twice over the last 34 years.

- None of us have any idea if Cam Mac has a primary motive of changes so as to not pay the estates of the original creatives. My personal view is that it's very unlikely and it is slightly unfair to say this. I think rather he doesn't want a museum piece. The accusations of Cameron not spending money are also nonsense. Maybe he spends less than he used to. He still spends more than pretty much everyone else. What is also unknown is how well CM and ALW currently get on. Though certainly there are I guess inferences that CM would like to change more than ALW.

- Halving the orchestra was inevitable at some point. It is lovely to have that huge orchestra but totally unnecessary. Of course is very sad that half won't have their contracts renewed. But music technology is so different now compared to 1986. And the blending of synthesised sounds with real strings is incredibly effective now. 99% of people in the audience would never be able to tell the difference. It just makes no economic sense to continue to pay 30+ musicians.

- Shows can't be museum pieces. I totally get why mega fans of the original don't want to see any change. Only comparison I can make is my own Starlight mega fandom. When they brought in the new version in Bochum for the 30th it was VERY different and I really thought it ripped out the heart of the show. However audiences loved it and sales which had been flagging massively picked up. So although its not my fave version, I am really glad it happened if it means it can continue for another 30 years.

- I don't think the Phantom changes will be anything near as far reaching as that though. I really do think will be a few updates. And personally I look fwd to seeing a slicker, safer, visually enhanced 'brilliant original' which is also more economical, to survive in a post corona West End.

I don't disagree. There is a lush sound from a huge orchestra. But you are in the 1% who would notice. 99% of the punters at Her Majesty's have no idea how many people are in the pit and if this was changed would not notice. Also with modern technology it will still sound excellent. Though I appreciate, to purists not as good.

"Unnecessary" in a commercial way. They will save the money of 15 musicians and have no effect on the box office take. Of course it's a shame. Believe me nobody mourns the loss of the frivolous spending we saw on the mega musicals more than I do. But as ever, show BUSINESS. And a 30 piece orchestra is sadly unnecessary in the 2020 commercial workings of a West End long runner. 

Well yes and no re the DNA. Les Mis (to me) sounds better than ever with the 2009 orchestrations blending synths and strings. In fact it is a good case in point. When they first reduced the orchestra (?90s ?early 00s) the poorer sound was very noticeable as the technology wasn't quite there. The 2009 version reduced the orchestra size even further but by then the technology was such that it sounded sensational. IMHO obvs.

In 1986 nothing could come close to that sound other than the real thing. Now, they can get near enough for it to be the most sensible solution. You can't pay 30 musicians for negligible effect on sales. It IS sad. But it's life.

Company sounded fine to me; only version I have ever seen though. Miss Saigon sounded different but not worse - I liked the updated orchestrations. I like the original too.

I agree re pit bands though. How much better did Joseph sound at the Palladium compared to Kenwright's version. And the Americans are constantly developing these musicals like Waitress, Come From Away and Evan Hansen because they are cheap. And that I do find a shame. Lavish musicals don't get developed as much these days.

We do fundamentally agree. I'd love Phantom to keep it's huge orchestra. I'm just trying to look dispassionately at the reasons I think it won't.