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Post by martin1965 on Oct 4, 2016 12:30:13 GMT
Really? Interesting choice. Have seen a few productions, the RSC production in 2006 with Anton Lesser and Kate Fleetwood is prob the best ive seen tho the Old Vic with SRB was quite good.
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Post by peggs on Oct 4, 2016 12:33:39 GMT
Hi Peggs, a consensus from our teens is that Lear is mad. We had a brief discussion about states of mental illness being more complex in our 21st C understanding, but they prefered a more straightforward ' madness = acting irrationally with no self awareness ' definition. They point to the following to support their argument: mood changes referred to by other characters, which tells us this is a sudden change and not a steady character development over time; his treatment of Cordelia which goes way beyond a parent just being pissed off (phew .. some boundary norms do exist at home then); his behaviour and undressing in the storm, which no right thinking person would ever do; his return to some sort of lucidity at the end with Cordelia which proves that he was beside himself in the storm. As a fine example of madness, they all approved of the version at the National where Lear beats the fool to death, because 'you'd have to be mad to kill the one person who's stood by you.' I find myself both impressed by the line of argument of your teens and envious as my dinner conversations seem to mainly exist around chickens and tactics to draw unsuspecting passers by into starting the lawn mover, I say conversations more monologues really and using the above definition of madness I think there's a good reason to apply to my household.
I can't refute any of their examples so I may well just have to redefine how I think of Lear, thanks for the update and your offsprings' challenging thoughts.
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Post by Jan on Oct 4, 2016 13:53:04 GMT
Really? Interesting choice. Have seen a few productions, the RSC production in 2006 with Anton Lesser and Kate Fleetwood is prob the best ive seen tho the Old Vic with SRB was quite good. I have seen 14 productions of it. Just amongst the RSC ones I think both Adrian Noble productions (the first a promenade production also) were a bit better than the one you mention. Also Greg Hicks was very good in it more recently. The first play I wanted to see which I couldn't get tickets for was the Ron Eyre RSC production. This included the pleasant conceit that the bear which closes the first half was then lead on in chains as a dancing bear by Autolycus to open the second half providing "closure" as the saying goes. I'm going to keep going until a director does that again. |
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Post by cirque on Oct 6, 2016 8:03:02 GMT
OK....so saw this last night.Its big and based on a star performance.
High production values but reminds me of Wolfit School of actor performance.Huge set pieces being monumental and Old Testament in imagery but nothing touches the heart.I enjoyed seeing the play again but why,oh why,do we have the local extras marching up and down or doing their best beggars...it really is quite pointless unless its in RSC mandate to use local extras as much as possible.
The curtain call further proves my point...actors come in from sides whilst the great Sher sweeps through the huge doors upstage.I think this is the kind of theatre that Brook et al fought against all those years ago and is the polar opposite of the Boyd ensemble.
So....its a statement of Gregory Doran's vision of RSC and will have many friends....for me,it seemed very remote from the more exciting and immediate Shakespeare's of our times. I used to feel the RSC had the forefront position in European Shakespeare making but now I feel we are very much in a back seat. It is a good production....it has a large cast,diverse cast,etc...etc..but,oh,to feel some heart once more at this theatre.
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Post by alexandra on Oct 6, 2016 12:42:14 GMT
That's in my top 5. Sometimes I think it's the greatest.
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Post by Jan on Oct 6, 2016 13:43:00 GMT
That's in my top 5. Sometimes I think it's the greatest. I like Henry IV II also but sometimes I think the plot is a bit thin. It is interesting to think which are the best plays in performance, I don't think (aside from that Wooster Group catastrophe) I have ever seen a bad production of Troilus and Cressida and very few of Measure for Measure or Pericles whereas I've seen loads of bad King Lears, Macbeths and Hamlets. |
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Post by Jan on Oct 6, 2016 13:52:32 GMT
OK....so saw this last night.Its big and based on a star performance. High production values but reminds me of Wolfit School of actor performance.Huge set pieces being monumental and Old Testament in imagery but nothing touches the heart.I enjoyed seeing the play again but why,oh why,do we have the local extras marching up and down or doing their best beggars...it really is quite pointless unless its in RSC mandate to use local extras as much as possible. The curtain call further proves my point...actors come in from sides whilst the great Sher sweeps through the huge doors upstage.I think this is the kind of theatre that Brook et al fought against all those years ago and is the polar opposite of the Boyd ensemble. So....its a statement of Gregory Doran's vision of RSC and will have many friends....for me,it seemed very remote from the more exciting and immediate Shakespeare's of our times. I used to feel the RSC had the forefront position in European Shakespeare making but now I feel we are very much in a back seat. It is a good production....it has a large cast,diverse cast,etc...etc..but,oh,to feel some heart once more at this theatre. Doran as a director of Shakespeare strikes me as being like Peter Hall, efficient but a bit conservative and unexciting. However Hall was a quite brilliant producer of other director's work both at RSC and NT but Doran isn't at all |
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Post by Jan on Oct 6, 2016 13:52:42 GMT
OK....so saw this last night.Its big and based on a star performance. High production values but reminds me of Wolfit School of actor performance.Huge set pieces being monumental and Old Testament in imagery but nothing touches the heart.I enjoyed seeing the play again but why,oh why,do we have the local extras marching up and down or doing their best beggars...it really is quite pointless unless its in RSC mandate to use local extras as much as possible. The curtain call further proves my point...actors come in from sides whilst the great Sher sweeps through the huge doors upstage.I think this is the kind of theatre that Brook et al fought against all those years ago and is the polar opposite of the Boyd ensemble. So....its a statement of Gregory Doran's vision of RSC and will have many friends....for me,it seemed very remote from the more exciting and immediate Shakespeare's of our times. I used to feel the RSC had the forefront position in European Shakespeare making but now I feel we are very much in a back seat. It is a good production....it has a large cast,diverse cast,etc...etc..but,oh,to feel some heart once more at this theatre. Doran as a director of Shakespeare strikes me as being like Peter Hall, efficient but a bit conservative and unexciting. However Hall was a quite brilliant producer of other director's work both at RSC and NT but Doran isn't at all |
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Post by David J on Oct 6, 2016 18:45:23 GMT
This is my 12th Lear, though it is ironic since I struggle to sympathise with the character, despite what he goes through. Ian Mckellan was my first and then I kept away from the play (not because of him) for four years.
The play is big and grandly tragic but it all centres round a stubborn King who really brings it all upon himself. His idea of kingship alludes to absolutism where he answers to nobody but the almighty. I wondered how he could have lasted so long in comparison to other kings who followed such an ideology like Richard II and Charles I.
Sometimes I'd wish I could learn a bit of backstory, because surely someone did stand up against his rule once or twice
When you apply the psychology of Lear though the role can be seen as the best and most challenging roles to get right. There's different ways you could interpret him. You can keep it simple and show the decline of a raging but decrepit King. Perhaps show he was mad at all
Perhaps show how he isn't mad but simply deluded, like Timothy West earlier year, and perhaps Sher (or it could be down to his limited acting)
For me however Derek Jacobi was the ultimate King Lear when I saw the play again after that 4 year hiatus. Where I saw more than a stubborn King but an ailing father breaking down when everyone turns against him. He was left broken with Jacobis quavering voice, which left the reunion quite heartfelt. He is the only Lear that I difnt want to endure his final tragedy and I cried for him at the end
The best King Lear with Mckellans detailed performance behind, only Frank Langella and Michael Pennington comes close to Jacobis performance
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5,690 posts
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Post by lynette on Oct 7, 2016 13:21:08 GMT
I'm waiting for Rory Kinnear who will play Lear as a chain smoking bastard of a most sinister geezer...maybe or Rylance who will play him as gentle but a very spoilt man. Just going on here, you don't have to listen.
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Post by martin1965 on Oct 7, 2016 16:37:32 GMT
I suppose Rylance will do it at some stage but have to say i find him overrated!
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Post by talkstageytome on Oct 14, 2016 15:35:18 GMT
Saw the live screening last night. Was looking forward to it but only found it okay in the end. First act was way too long and the whole thing felt overindulgent. Davud Troughton's Gloucester was excellent though. The standout performance for me.
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5,690 posts
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Post by lynette on Oct 15, 2016 23:02:07 GMT
Saw the live screening last night. Was looking forward to it but only found it okay in the end. First act was way too long and the whole thing felt overindulgent. Davud Troughton's Gloucester was excellent though. The standout performance for me. First half was a bum numb - er and unacceptable imo. |
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Post by loureviews on Nov 26, 2016 17:55:56 GMT
Just back from the Sher and Doran Lear. Bags of spectacle. Sher plays Lear very safe and doesn't push himself so this falls shorts of great - quite different to Glenda the other week.
The powerhouse here is David Troughton. His Gloucester is fantastic. Edmund is simply annoying and displays no evil or even motive for what he does. Edgar is marvellous as is Graham Turner as the Fool (but as ever, where did he go in par two?).
Silly perspex box idea for the eye gouging scene and the Old Vic's version has a lot more menace thanks to Danny Webb. This Cornwall is presented really as a puppet of his bloodthirsty wife Regan.
The daughters are all good. Antony Byrne is a fantastic Kent.
But I'm glad I saw both productions and in fact for me Glenda and Deborah have the edge.
I'm getting a little bored of Doran's safe Bard.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 17:59:40 GMT
I don't know if I'd like to see Cher in 'King Lear'. Although I did love her in 'Moonstruck'.
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Post by bellboard27 on Nov 26, 2016 18:04:09 GMT
I don't know if I'd like to see Cher in 'King Lear'. Although I did love her in 'Moonstruck'. I suspect a rendition of "If I Could Turn Back Time" might be quite appropriate for Lear. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2016 18:05:48 GMT
the Old Vic's version has a lot more menace thanks to Danny Webb Danny Webb was part of the RSC half of their collaborative Troilus and Cressida with the Wooster Group. |
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Post by martin1965 on Nov 26, 2016 20:01:13 GMT
Just back from the Sher and Doran Lear. Bags of spectacle. Sher plays Lear very safe and doesn't push himself so this falls shorts of great - quite different to Glenda the other week. The powerhouse here is David Troughton. His Gloucester is fantastic. Edmund is simply annoying and displays no evil or even motive for what he does. Edgar is marvellous as is Graham Turner as the Fool (but as ever, where did he go in par two?). Silly perspex box idea for the eye gouging scene and the Old Vic's version has a lot more menace thanks to Danny Webb. This Cornwall is presented really as a puppet of his bloodthirsty wife Regan. The daughters are all good. Antony Byrne is a fantastic Kent. But I'm glad I saw both productions and in fact for me Glenda and Deborah have the edge. I'm getting a little bored of Doran's safe Bard. Well there you go, have to say i felr the exact opposite!! The Old Vic for me was a disappointment. You pays your money... |
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Post by martin1965 on Nov 26, 2016 20:03:10 GMT
the Old Vic's version has a lot more menace thanks to Danny Webb Danny Webb was part of the RSC half of their collaborative Troilus and Cressida with the Wooster Group. Was he? That production was apparently a carcrash! I thought he was wasted in the Old Vic production. |
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Post by lynette on Nov 26, 2016 20:16:51 GMT
Just back from the Sher and Doran Lear. Bags of spectacle. Sher plays Lear very safe and doesn't push himself so this falls shorts of great - quite different to Glenda the other week. The powerhouse here is David Troughton. His Gloucester is fantastic. Edmund is simply annoying and displays no evil or even motive for what he does. Edgar is marvellous as is Graham Turner as the Fool (but as ever, where did he go in par two?). Silly perspex box idea for the eye gouging scene and the Old Vic's version has a lot more menace thanks to Danny Webb. This Cornwall is presented really as a puppet of his bloodthirsty wife Regan. The daughters are all good. Antony Byrne is a fantastic Kent. But I'm glad I saw both productions and in fact for me Glenda and Deborah have the edge. I'm getting a little bored of Doran's safe Bard. Well there you go, have to say i felr the exact opposite!! The Old Vic for me was a disappointment. You pays your money... Look out for Antony Byrne in Roman season next year at RSC. 😉 |
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Post by martin1965 on Nov 26, 2016 21:41:53 GMT
Ooh! Whats he playing? Enobarbus? Nrutus?
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Post by martin1965 on Nov 26, 2016 21:42:36 GMT
Or even Brutus, doh!
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Post by lynette on Nov 27, 2016 11:28:47 GMT
Nope.
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Post by martin1965 on Nov 27, 2016 12:31:58 GMT
Surely not Antony?
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Post by lynette on Nov 27, 2016 18:30:53 GMT
My lips are sealed. Well, no actually they are around a huge glass of Prosecco.
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