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Post by mrbarnaby on Nov 12, 2024 22:21:27 GMT
Wait, I thought the highest grossing entertainment of all time was Phantom? Or has LK overtaken it now?
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Post by Jon on Nov 12, 2024 22:29:48 GMT
Wait, I thought the highest grossing entertainment of all time was Phantom? Or has LK overtaken it now? The Lion King is at $8.2bn globally, Phantom is $6.06bn followed by Wicked at $5bn, |
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Post by ntherooh on Nov 12, 2024 23:28:23 GMT
I actually quite like being able to see these shows once every ten years, but thats a bit selfish. I thought Phantom was in great shape a few weeks ago, but the cast of Lion King dragged the whole show down. Imo if they’d keep the cast on top of it, these shows are still great quality productions, worthy of their theaters. But, when the cast fails to deliver and offers a through the motions performance or less, something needs to be done.
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Post by Dave B on Nov 13, 2024 11:52:02 GMT
Time to close the Lion King and bring something new to The Lyceum They heard you Mr Bear and as a result just extended Lion King ... again! |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 13, 2024 12:13:32 GMT
Doh!
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Post by jamesd123 on Nov 13, 2024 12:53:13 GMT
Yeah I fear this thread is not the hot take some folks think it is. As much as I’m sure we’d all love to be swimming in new theatre constantly, as an industry those long running shows quite literally prop up the West End. They provide the revenue that producers can subsequently invest in new writing. Now, admittedly, some are better at doing so (ALW is notoriously terrible at funding anything other than his own amusements) but Cameron — whilst maybe not public-facing — is heavily involved in the development of hundreds of shows. ATG also. You wouldn’t have Benjamin Button/Operation Mincemeat without Cabaret, Mean Girls, their other big money makers. And so many small scale creative producers are financial investors in those reliable large-scale moneymakers, again to fuel the development of new work. It’s a delicate ecosystem and if we just uprooted Lion King, Les Mis, Wicked and Phantom you wouldn’t magically see four amazing new musicals take their place.
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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 13, 2024 13:02:24 GMT
All true jamesd123 but it doesnt mean we cant dream. |
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Post by Jon on Nov 13, 2024 13:02:44 GMT
I imagine the money Sonia Friedman has made from Harry Potter and The Book of Mormon has allowed her to take risks on things like The Years in the West End.
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Post by joem on Nov 13, 2024 13:05:26 GMT
The time to close a show is when there's not enough people who want to see it. As others have said it's partly profits from big hits that help fund new musicals and more adventurous stuff.
The market - surprise, surprise - tends to get these things right. That's why we have a balance between big musicals, classics, new plays, revivals.... and different venues from the huge spaces where Krapps Last Tape would get lost to someone's back room doing a fringe fringe performance. Different scale, different prices.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 13, 2024 13:08:55 GMT
Yeah I fear this thread is not the hot take some folks think it is. I don’t think anyone thinks it’s a hot take. We have this discussion periodically in the full knowledge that nothings going to change, then we get back in our boxes until next time. We’re just throwing thoughts around and speculating. It’s our speciality! |
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Post by BVM on Nov 13, 2024 14:26:41 GMT
Yeah I fear this thread is not the hot take some folks think it is. As much as I’m sure we’d all love to be swimming in new theatre constantly, as an industry those long running shows quite literally prop up the West End. They provide the revenue that producers can subsequently invest in new writing. Now, admittedly, some are better at doing so (ALW is notoriously terrible at funding anything other than his own amusements) but Cameron — whilst maybe not public-facing — is heavily involved in the development of hundreds of shows. ATG also. You wouldn’t have Benjamin Button/Operation Mincemeat without Cabaret, Mean Girls, their other big money makers. And so many small scale creative producers are financial investors in those reliable large-scale moneymakers, again to fuel the development of new work. It’s a delicate ecosystem and if we just uprooted Lion King, Les Mis, Wicked and Phantom you wouldn’t magically see four amazing new musicals take their place. Yeah exactly this I think. They totally have their role. Also I think a lot of people wishing that a few of them were gone are in fantasy land re what would replace them - like I said upstream it wouldn't (in the main) be the interesting new challenging or arty things they hope for. Would be Justin Bieber The Musical, Barbie The Musical and The Apprentice The Musical. Stuck there for another 10 years. It's just not a realistic argument. Having theatres free doesn't change what the GBP want, nor producer's desire to give it to them. Nice to dream though, obvs :-) To be fair to ALW he spent a period in the 1980s and 1990s producing other people's work but decided he wasn't very good at it. But he does loads for music in schools, developing young talent, he had a stint trying to make The Other Palace work and since Covid he's removed himself from the Tory's pockets (unlike CM) and challenges whoever is in government on their record (or lack of) with the arts. He also does considerably more for the theatres he owns than ATG and Nimax. And whilst CM may obsess over the colour of the taps, LWT have better toilets and more comfortable auditoriums. He puts back in his fair share! |
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Post by Jon on Nov 13, 2024 14:46:48 GMT
Yeah I fear this thread is not the hot take some folks think it is. As much as I’m sure we’d all love to be swimming in new theatre constantly, as an industry those long running shows quite literally prop up the West End. They provide the revenue that producers can subsequently invest in new writing. Now, admittedly, some are better at doing so (ALW is notoriously terrible at funding anything other than his own amusements) but Cameron — whilst maybe not public-facing — is heavily involved in the development of hundreds of shows. ATG also. You wouldn’t have Benjamin Button/Operation Mincemeat without Cabaret, Mean Girls, their other big money makers. And so many small scale creative producers are financial investors in those reliable large-scale moneymakers, again to fuel the development of new work. It’s a delicate ecosystem and if we just uprooted Lion King, Les Mis, Wicked and Phantom you wouldn’t magically see four amazing new musicals take their place. Yeah exactly this I think. They totally have their role. Also I think a lot of people wishing that a few of them were gone are in fantasy land re what would replace them - like I said upstream it wouldn't (in the main) be the interesting new challenging or arty things they hope for. Would be Justin Bieber The Musical, Barbie The Musical and The Apprentice The Musical. Stuck there for another 10 years. It's just not a realistic argument. Having theatres free doesn't change what the GBP want, nor producer's desire to give it to them. Nice to dream though, obvs :-) To be fair to ALW he spent a period in the 1980s and 1990s producing other people's work but decided he wasn't very good at it. But he does loads for music in schools, developing young talent, he had a stint trying to make The Other Palace work and since Covid he's removed himself from the Tory's pockets (unlike CM) and challenges whoever is in government on their record (or lack of) with the arts. He also does considerably more for the theatres he owns than ATG and Nimax. And whilst CM may obsess over the colour of the taps, LWT have better toilets and more comfortable auditoriums. He puts back in his fair share! I don't think it's fair on Nimax to say that they don't do much for their theatres, it's a smaller operation but also Nica Burns doesn't have ALW and Cameron's wealth to fund these refurbs. |
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Post by BVM on Nov 13, 2024 14:56:18 GMT
Yeah exactly this I think. They totally have their role. Also I think a lot of people wishing that a few of them were gone are in fantasy land re what would replace them - like I said upstream it wouldn't (in the main) be the interesting new challenging or arty things they hope for. Would be Justin Bieber The Musical, Barbie The Musical and The Apprentice The Musical. Stuck there for another 10 years. It's just not a realistic argument. Having theatres free doesn't change what the GBP want, nor producer's desire to give it to them. Nice to dream though, obvs :-) To be fair to ALW he spent a period in the 1980s and 1990s producing other people's work but decided he wasn't very good at it. But he does loads for music in schools, developing young talent, he had a stint trying to make The Other Palace work and since Covid he's removed himself from the Tory's pockets (unlike CM) and challenges whoever is in government on their record (or lack of) with the arts. He also does considerably more for the theatres he owns than ATG and Nimax. And whilst CM may obsess over the colour of the taps, LWT have better toilets and more comfortable auditoriums. He puts back in his fair share! I don't think it's fair on Nimax to say that don't do much for their theatres, it's a smaller operation but also Nica Burns doesn't have ALW and Cameron's wealth to fund these refurbs. Fully appreciate that and as an individual I think Nica Burns is a fantastic person. Intelligent, creative, passionate, brings interesting things to a diverse array of audiences. And makes all the right noises for the industry and politically. But from a dispassionate customer perspective, the loos in Nimax theatres are suboptimal, the sightlines poor and the seating uncomfortable. |
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Post by theatrefan77 on Nov 13, 2024 16:15:00 GMT
I totally agree. I absolutely love Nica Burns, but Nimax theatres are not favourites of mine. They are all lovely theatres but most of them need to be refurbished
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 13, 2024 18:47:12 GMT
If we didn’t have Oklahoma, South Pacific, Hello Dolly or Fiddler on the Roof, we wouldn’t of had Jesus Christ Superstar, Cats, Les Miserables or Phantom of the Opera, if we didn’t have Jesus Christ Superstar, Cats, Les Miserables or Phantom of the Opera we wouldn’t of had The Lion King, Wicked, Shrek or Sister Act.
So what am I saying is that because of productions before it run for a very longtime it gave future producers’ the confidence to mount big shows and their shows could possibly run a long time and make a healthy profit, gone are the days where a show would be put on my one person Cameron Mackintosh, with risking other people’s money, but are put on by global corporations now generally. Producers are very foolish but also very brave and they deserve their rewards when things go well.
It is worth noting also that the West End has lost the greatest theatre in the world the London Palladium as a theatre for open runs, I wonder when the ENO move out of the London Coliseum (not a good thing) if that will hold open runs again?
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Post by erik24601 on Nov 13, 2024 18:58:58 GMT
What was the reasoning behind long-runners not longer sitting in the Palladium?
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Post by Jon on Nov 13, 2024 19:09:55 GMT
What was the reasoning behind long-runners not longer sitting in the Palladium? The Palladium has never been one for long runners unlike other theatres, the longest running show there was Chitty Chitty Bang Bang at just over 3 and a half years. |
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Post by SilverFox on Nov 13, 2024 19:22:34 GMT
It is worth noting also that the West End has lost the greatest theatre in the world the London Palladium as a theatre for open runs, I wonder when the ENO move out of the London Coliseum (not a good thing) if that will hold open runs again? I thought the ENO were retaining the Coli, just letting it out more - which precludes long runs? And I concur that relocation for ENO is politically, rather than artistically, driven and will benefit no-one. Many reasons given eg - 'Just outside of the West End' etc, but I think basically it is a variety stage, ie not large / equipped for / accessible for a modern musical, and the theatre is in need of a major restoration/updating. It has lost the cachet it once had, but given the right product could easily regain demand. Theatres go through success cycles. There have been times when the Phoenix / Shaftesbury / Dominion / Fortune etc, have been labelled 'cursed' - but then a show like Blood Brothers settles in ...... Other 'variety' stages have been rebuilt - eg the Victoria Palace, Lyceum - but the Palladium is rather hemmed-in as a building and would require ingenuity (AKA vast expense) to significantly enlarge.
EDIT: How do you you get two quotes into a post on this board?
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Post by theatremiss on Nov 13, 2024 19:24:23 GMT
Tbh I’d happily see the back of Wicked and Hamilton. Having said that I hate schlepping up to Victoria for a show
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Post by PineappleForYou on Nov 13, 2024 19:38:14 GMT
Having said that I hate schlepping up to Victoria for a show I mean, it's still in Zone 1 😂 |
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Post by Jon on Nov 13, 2024 19:49:01 GMT
The Palladium with its mix of concerts, comedy, panto and summer musical is likely making money for LW Theatres so the need to find a long runner is not necessary. Keep in mind before the 90s, that's how it was run.
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Post by theatremiss on Nov 13, 2024 19:55:34 GMT
Having said that I hate schlepping up to Victoria for a show I mean, it's still in Zone 1 😂 Yes I know, but I’m often having to make a dash for a train from Waterloo and that means a bus or tube with a change. I’m usually cutting it fine at the best of times |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Nov 13, 2024 20:15:18 GMT
Tbh I’d happily see the back of Wicked and Hamilton. Having said that I hate schlepping up to Victoria for a show We in “The North” love it 🤭 |
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Post by Mark on Nov 13, 2024 23:09:37 GMT
Tina is no longer selling the upper circle from March. I really don’t think it has long left to run.
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Post by Jon on Nov 13, 2024 23:30:37 GMT
Tina is no longer selling the upper circle from March. I really don’t think it has long left to run. I agree especially with the UK and Ireland tour coming up which will eat into its already low sales. My guess is it'll announce closure in early 2025. |
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