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Post by Jan on Nov 23, 2024 20:21:21 GMT
Health Minister, Justice Minister, Attorney General all oppose - the ministers who would have to implement it. Liberty who support in principle oppose this specific bill. Hard to imagine a more incompetent way of trying to bring in this legislation.
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Post by aspieandy on Nov 24, 2024 15:28:12 GMT
When we are hearing the Cabinet is split 2/3 to 1/3 in favour of assistance, a big poll for the Times and Sunday Times. Fwiw, I'm guessing 6 of the 7 constituencies (opposing) have large south Asian populations. I know Clapham and Brixton pretty well and can't read into that at all: x.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1860470207904436720/photo/1 |
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Post by Jan on Nov 28, 2024 21:16:45 GMT
So, the debate tomorrow can only last 5 hours as it’s a Private Members Bill and 100 MPs want to speak - so at best they all get 3 minutes each. Does anyone think this is a remotely acceptable way to address this issue ? The principle has high public support and support from a majority of MPs but the implementation and bill itself are so flawed it might well be voted down.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 28, 2024 21:44:34 GMT
This is only the first stage. There will be time for more detailed discussions and amendments.
It is far from the first time these issues have been debated in the UK parliament.
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Post by Jan on Nov 29, 2024 7:30:29 GMT
This is only the first stage. There will be time for more detailed discussions and amendments. Only if it is passed today and there's a good chance it won't be given the way Starmer has arranged it. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 29, 2024 9:25:29 GMT
Starmer is not politically savvy enough to do that. He doesn't have the skills.
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Post by duncan on Nov 29, 2024 9:35:14 GMT
Maybe he should have got that fraudster to sort it out and then Reeves the liar could say it passed based on her economic background.
Hopefully this will pass to the next stage its certainly something that this country needs to have.
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Post by Jan on Nov 29, 2024 9:40:25 GMT
Starmer is not politically savvy enough to do that. He doesn't have the skills. What I mean is he decided the schedule and he decided it was a Private Member's Bill. He personally is in favour and voted in favour last time. So he has undermined his own position through incompetence. As an aside it is curious there are some MPs voting in favour of the right for people to end their own lives but also to ban adults from smoking. In terms of personal responsibility what's the difference ? |
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Post by paulbrownsey on Nov 29, 2024 10:31:59 GMT
Starmer is not politically savvy enough to do that. He doesn't have the skills. What I mean is he decided the schedule and he decided it was a Private Member's Bill. He personally is in favour and voted in favour last time. So he has undermined his own position through incompetence. As an aside it is curious there are some MPs voting in favour of the right for people to end their own lives but also to ban adults from smoking. In terms of personal responsibility what's the difference ? Culd the difference be that smoking is likely to lead to heavy healthcare costs in treating the smoker, whereas assisted dying isn't? |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Nov 29, 2024 14:35:54 GMT
And smoking affects more than just the person who smokes
Passive smoking has negative impacts worthy of consideration
So the two are not comparable
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Post by aspieandy on Nov 29, 2024 15:55:16 GMT
rs) Starmer is not politically savvy enough to do that. He doesn't have the skills. As an aside it is curious there are some MPs voting in favour of the right for people to end their own lives but also to ban adults from smoking. In terms of personal responsibility what's the difference ? Most people who smoke at some point eventually stop (as I did after 20 years), which then leads to your lungs going on a mad recovery drive:
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Post by lynette on Nov 29, 2024 15:57:25 GMT
So, the debate tomorrow can only last 5 hours as it’s a Private Members Bill and 100 MPs want to speak - so at best they all get 3 minutes each. Does anyone think this is a remotely acceptable way to address this issue ? The principle has high public support and support from a majority of MPs but the implementation and bill itself are so flawed it might well be voted down. Hmmm, ‘high public support’ if we had a referendum on Capital Punishment tomorrow , it would be in favour. That is ‘high public support’. And there are other big cultural matters that I could mention but one is enough. |
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Post by SilverFox on Nov 29, 2024 16:17:02 GMT
Bill passed - and moves on to the next stages.
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Post by samuel1980 on Nov 29, 2024 16:29:54 GMT
Good result. Now it will have the chance to be scrutinised properly. I imagine Dame Esther Rantzen will be particularly pleased.
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Post by parsley1 on Nov 29, 2024 20:26:49 GMT
If it is passed ratified and is law
I give it a year before there is misuse or abuse of the framework
And cases make it to the GMC
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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 29, 2024 21:45:42 GMT
Im so glad our MP's have chosen humanity over dogma
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 29, 2024 22:13:56 GMT
Parliament gives people a right to live a good lawful life, now today it is one step closer for people at last can lead a good end of life.
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Post by mkb on Nov 29, 2024 22:18:05 GMT
While the SNP and some other Scottish MPs followed the honourable convention of abstaining on matters that affect only England and Wales, Northern Ireland MPs did not.
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 30, 2024 0:07:36 GMT
Never mind the result it is the very early stages and things can change, but there is something very beautiful with MPs voting on conscience alone and not on party mandate and being whipped. I have to say that I have been surprised by how some MPs have voted and have to say unexpectedly.
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Post by forsythe on Nov 30, 2024 0:56:16 GMT
The saddest part for me is that many of the illnesses people need relief from are curable.
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Post by paulbrownsey on Nov 30, 2024 8:32:36 GMT
The saddest part for me is that many of the illnesses people need relief from are curable. Please list ten of the "many". |
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Post by parsley1 on Nov 30, 2024 9:21:01 GMT
What fascinates me Is that MPs are so simplistic that they think “I saw my mum suffering” Is a valid argument for a bill on assisted dying Lacking any sort of perspective and unaware that emotions are best left aside Who is the person to say someone is suffering What is the definition of suffering Many mental health patients suffer unimaginably for decades and make repeated suicide attempts and some patients with addictions do not respond or wish to accept treatment Who is the judge to define suffering if not the patient In the Netherlands they have taken their rights further pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9251055/It is interesting that the BMA have no official stand on assisted dying And furthermore only 36% of doctors surveyed by the BMA would be willing to help in an assisted death With only 30% willing to administer necessary drugs and 54% opposing it |
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Post by paulbrownsey on Nov 30, 2024 9:49:36 GMT
What fascinates me Is that MPs are so simplistic that they think “I saw my mum suffering” Is a valid argument for a bill on assisted dying Lacking any sort of perspective and unaware that emotions are best left aside Who is the person to say someone is suffering What is the definition of suffering Many mental health patients suffer unimaginably for decades and make repeated suicide attempts and some patients with addictions do not respond or wish to accept treatment Who is the judge to define suffering if not the patient (1) In many cases, it is 'Mum' who declares the suffering is intolerable; (2) the fact that relatives say 'Mum' is suffering and 'Mum' is beyond speaking for herself would mean that the proposed assisted dying legislatiion would not apply to the case because thge initiative must come from the patient. |
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