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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 23, 2024 9:44:10 GMT
Posts removed.
How about we stop dismissing other people’s feelings? If you want to support the actor who made the choice to give the speech tell us your reasons why you think it was an appropriate thing to do. Leave other members out of it.
Thanks.
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Post by hadeswasking on Oct 23, 2024 9:48:43 GMT
Posts removed. How about we stop dismissing other people’s feelings? If you want to support the actor who made the choice to give the speech tell us your reasons why you think it was an appropriate thing to do. Leave other members out of it. Thanks. To be fair, I don't think this thread should exist... its just asking for trouble. I also feel like the posts that have been deleted have been one-sided which I don't think is very fair. |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Oct 23, 2024 9:52:09 GMT
Believe me, I am perfectly willing to zap it if people can’t have a reasoned and respectful discussion about it. It’s up to all of you, not me.
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Post by hitmewithurbethshot on Oct 23, 2024 9:52:21 GMT
To be able to complain about the plight of others in the world as a “spiel” that “ruins your show” is an immensely privileged position
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Post by oxfordsimon on Oct 23, 2024 9:57:25 GMT
It is not privilege to be able to make an informed decision as to how you choose to spend your money and what shows you decide to book.
The privilege on display here is from the cast who are exploiting their position by forcing their opinions on an audience that has not consented to attend a political rally after the end of the play they paid to see.
The entitlement on the part of the cast is what is wrong here.
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Post by hitmewithurbethshot on Oct 23, 2024 10:08:36 GMT
Ah yes theatre, the inherently apolitical art form
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Post by fiyerorocher on Oct 23, 2024 10:32:19 GMT
Productions do post-show speeches and collections all the time for various charities. There are plenty of people out there who would think that collecting for queer charities is 'political' - I know I've been at a show collecting for Mermaids before. Where do you draw the line at what is considered 'political' and what isn't, and who gets to draw it? If someone has fought their way to a platform (which isn't exactly easy in the theatre industry), I support that person's right to use their platform to try to raise awareness and/or money for the causes they believe in. No one is forced to listen. They don't lock the doors. But to say that, for example, a Palestinian creator should just make art to keep people entertained and shouldn't get to use their platform to try to get help for people who need is just feels disrespectful. Please note that I am not suggesting that is what anyone in this thread has claimed, I just think it's worth remembering that a lot of people do not have the privilege of separating their art from their politics, because the only way they can fight for the latter is to make use of the former.
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Post by parsley1 on Oct 23, 2024 10:33:13 GMT
Ah yes theatre, the inherently apolitical art form Theatre is there primarily to make money Let’s not pretend otherwise Everything else comes after |
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Post by osdtdg on Oct 23, 2024 11:16:47 GMT
Ah yes theatre, the inherently apolitical art form Theatre is there primarily to make money Let’s not pretend otherwise Everything else comes after Thats the goal of producers sure. But, playwrights and the like often have a message behind what they say. Next to Normal critiques the mental health industry and the way mental health is treated (in both the public and medical sense), Operation Mincemeat satirises and subsequently critiques the way the privileges that public school grants and the way that important decisions happen behind closed doors. The list goes on and on. Theatre is also political when governments around the world are undermining or underfunding the arts. Theatre is - or at the very least can be political. Pretending its not is just as disingenuous as pretending many producers aren't in it for the money. |
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Post by ceebee on Oct 23, 2024 11:24:23 GMT
I quite like the collections they do at the Old Vic Christmas Carol. A quick google search says we have raised over £1m for some great charities I do too, though they over-egg it a bit in terms of the number of people in London and the UK that are in poverty / don't get a meal etc. I think they could pitch it differently so that it feels less of a lecture - after all, the audience has jsut sat through nearly two hours of social commentary!... "We hope you've enjoyed the performance and are all set for Christmas! Sadly, not everybody will be looking forward to the festive period and our partner charity "XYZ" steps in to ensure that people in need get the support that they need, not just at this time of year but all year round. We hope that you will consider making a donation in one of our buckets or card machines as you leave, and spread the joy of Christmas just a little bit further." Would be so much nicer than trying to guilt the audience. |
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Post by Nelly on Oct 23, 2024 11:24:28 GMT
It is not privilege to be able to make an informed decision as to how you choose to spend your money and what shows you decide to book. The privilege on display here is from the cast who are exploiting their position by forcing their opinions on an audience that has not consented to attend a political rally after the end of the play they paid to see. The entitlement on the part of the cast is what is wrong here.
I agree with this. Last November (roughly about a month after the October 7th Attacks in Israel,which, relevant to this story included a horrific attack on people attending a music festival) I was at a gig and when the artist came back out for an encore, they had draped a Palestinian flag around then and launched into a Pro/Free-Palestine speech. It completely ruined the gig for me (for reasons I don't need to go into right now) and I actually found it very insensitive that this was done at a live music gig knowing what had happened in Israel only a month before.
There will always be people that are pro/against where you stand and I accept that, but if you are not expecting something like this to be suddenly shoved down your throat and in my context above, somewhere largely irrelevant, then it can be quite shocking and upsetting.
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Post by osdtdg on Oct 23, 2024 11:33:25 GMT
It is not privilege to be able to make an informed decision as to how you choose to spend your money and what shows you decide to book. The privilege on display here is from the cast who are exploiting their position by forcing their opinions on an audience that has not consented to attend a political rally after the end of the play they paid to see. The entitlement on the part of the cast is what is wrong here.
I agree with this. Last November (roughly about a month after the October 7th Attacks in Israel,which, relevant to this story included a horrific attack on people attending a music festival) I was at a gig and when the artist came back out for an encore, they had draped a Palestinian flag around then and launched into a Pro/Free-Palestine speech. It completely ruined the gig for me (for reasons I don't need to go into right now) and I actually found it very insensitive that this was done at a live music gig knowing what had happened in Israel only a month before.
There will always be people that are pro/against where you stand and I accept that, but if you are not expecting something like this to be suddenly shoved down your throat and in my context above, somewhere largely irrelevant, then it can be quite shocking and upsetting.
Sure, and I appreciate that is true of a concert. But, this was a theatre with the first sentence on the ND page being: "A dystopian tale about the corrosive impact of state racism and the monster within two migrant sisters." That is the context in which this happened. It continues with "... King Troll (The Fawn) is a dark and otherworldly thriller about two South Asian sisters, desperate to escape the border regime without losing their humanity. Is that even possible on this island? A dystopian exploration of migrant experiences in all their complexity." If a statement in support of a oppressed community based on borders suprises someone after that; I dont understand what you would expect??? (/this is not aimed at you Nelly) |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Oct 23, 2024 11:35:54 GMT
Ah yes theatre, the inherently apolitical art form Who has said that? No one. Theatre is a great vehicle for political ideas. Cast members giving a political sermon after the curtain call isn't part of the production. |
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Post by hadeswasking on Oct 23, 2024 11:39:09 GMT
Ah yes theatre, the inherently apolitical art form Who has said that? No one. Theatre is a great vehicle for political ideas. Cast members giving a political sermon after the curtain call isn't part of the production. But in the case of the reason why this thread was created... it was! |
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Post by osdtdg on Oct 23, 2024 11:40:18 GMT
Ah yes theatre, the inherently apolitical art form Who has said that? No one. Theatre is a great vehicle for political ideas. Cast members giving a political sermon after the curtain call isn't part of the production. As has been stated already: actors give speeches for charities for causes that some will feel political all the time (queer charities, homeless charities etc.). This was an inherently political play. Are we surprised that a political play has a political message and the actors in that play make explicit the real life connections? |
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Post by parsley1 on Oct 23, 2024 11:42:55 GMT
If the play was any good and the playwright had a spine
She would have communicated this in her writing
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Post by hadeswasking on Oct 23, 2024 11:44:35 GMT
If the play was any good and the playwright had a spine She would have communicated this in her writing Maybe they should add this to their trigger warnings. But people will complain about that anyway |
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Post by Nelly on Oct 23, 2024 11:46:17 GMT
I agree with this. Last November (roughly about a month after the October 7th Attacks in Israel,which, relevant to this story included a horrific attack on people attending a music festival) I was at a gig and when the artist came back out for an encore, they had draped a Palestinian flag around then and launched into a Pro/Free-Palestine speech. It completely ruined the gig for me (for reasons I don't need to go into right now) and I actually found it very insensitive that this was done at a live music gig knowing what had happened in Israel only a month before.
There will always be people that are pro/against where you stand and I accept that, but if you are not expecting something like this to be suddenly shoved down your throat and in my context above, somewhere largely irrelevant, then it can be quite shocking and upsetting.
Sure, and I appreciate that is true of a concert. But, this was a theatre with the first sentence on the ND page being: "A dystopian tale about the corrosive impact of state racism and the monster within two migrant sisters." That is the context in which this happened. It continues with "... King Troll (The Fawn) is a dark and otherworldly thriller about two South Asian sisters, desperate to escape the border regime without losing their humanity. Is that even possible on this island? A dystopian exploration of migrant experiences in all their complexity." If a statement in support of a oppressed community based on borders suprises someone after that; I dont understand what you would expect??? (/this is not aimed at you Nelly)
I would genuinely say from reading what you've copied and pasted that I would be expecting to see a thought provoking play about something based on/with strong ties to what is happening in the real world without being slapped in the face or lectured at the end about a very specific cause, because lets face it, sadly in the above blurb you've pasted, isn't just a Palestine issue, there are many countries where the same thing is happening.
I'm not trying to be obtuse about this, but I think that is where Parsley was coming from. I don't think they were saying that they weren't expecting anything of that theme at all.
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Post by nomoretalkofdarkness on Oct 23, 2024 12:24:08 GMT
Ah yes theatre, the inherently apolitical art form Theatre is there primarily to make money Let’s not pretend otherwise Everything else comes after Sorry but if you are in the theatre industry now To "Primarily make money", you are in the completely wrong industry for that now |
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Post by punxsutawney on Oct 23, 2024 18:48:31 GMT
Ah yes theatre, the inherently apolitical art form Theatre is there primarily to make money Let’s not pretend otherwise Everything else comes after What a deeply depressing outlook. I'm not looking at theatre from the PoV of a producer and nor should any creative be. Theatre should be political, emotional, meaningful. Not just a venture to make money. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Oct 23, 2024 20:26:35 GMT
But without money, you can't afford to pay the cast, the creatives, the marketing agency, the rehearsal venue, the theatre hire. All the things you need to fund before you get any tickets revenue.
This is a business. You need cash flowing to afford your next projects.
Theatre will never survive just on public money or private benefactors.
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Post by aspieandy on Oct 23, 2024 20:33:44 GMT
This thread reminds me of when my former CLP had a meeting- for the purpose of voting in a new party leader (after E. Miliband). Goodness .. it was very effectively hijacked by a reasonably well known actor who was determined we all understood that electing Corbyn as leader would mean the destruction of the party.
Very impassioned, eyes blazing, she grabbed hold of the microphone and did not stop. By the standards of local politics (where you get a, lot of known, artsy types) it was extraordinary stuff – inc. dire warnings of catastrophic consequences for the party and country (of electing the member for Yesteryear Losers). It was a memorable, raw demonstration of entitlement and privilege (Liz Kendall was the Blairite middle way and exactly what the country needed).
She was pretty much the epitome of a class we saw more often in the years after: the educated, metropolitan, middle-class 'we do know what's best' folks - possibly best seen in former LibDem leader Jo Swinton's lecture to conference; stepping forward in that motherly way with hands on hips effectively saying 'this is why you can't have nice things' (talking about the referendum).
Anyway, Priyanga Burford was all that (probably in her late 30s-40 at the time. Bless her).
I do think the less we know about their politics the better for them and us.
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Post by stagesavant on Oct 23, 2024 20:36:45 GMT
The genocide in Gaza is a desperately heartbreaking situation, a blot on humanity. It does make me incredibly uncomfortable that our government supports the oppressor politically and militarily. It's an important conversation that needs to be had.
Having said that, it does sound like the speech and the play are unrelated? I wonder if it would have been better to hold a spoken word night, where they invite artists to deliver a response to the play King Troll, in any way, related or unrelated. I'm seeing King Troll next week so will reserve my judgement until then.
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Post by parsley1 on Oct 23, 2024 21:09:08 GMT
The genocide in Gaza is a desperately heartbreaking situation, a blot on humanity. It does make me incredibly uncomfortable that our government supports the oppressor politically and militarily. It's an important conversation that needs to be had. Having said that, it does sound like the speech and the play are unrelated? I wonder if it would have been better to hold a spoken word night, where they invite artists to deliver a response to the play King Troll, in any way, related or unrelated. I'm seeing King Troll next week so will reserve my judgement until then. The end of a play And a unilateral proclamation of one persons point of view Isn’t having a conversation How would you feel If your doctor ambushed you with this at the end of your consultation Or the supermarket assistant stopped their task midway and started declaiming forth Irrespective of how uncomfortable people claim to feel They should speak to those in a position to bring about change And those individuals aren’t bothered as the position of the UK hasn’t changed as long as I have been alive There are lots of things people are uncomfortable about Yet they manage to get on with life and sleep at night |
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Post by parsley1 on Oct 23, 2024 21:35:20 GMT
Theatre is there primarily to make money Let’s not pretend otherwise Everything else comes after What a deeply depressing outlook. I'm not looking at theatre from the PoV of a producer and nor should any creative be. Theatre should be political, emotional, meaningful. Not just a venture to make money. Yes just like food and water should be free |
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