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Post by parsley1 on Sept 23, 2024 16:09:50 GMT
Part of the issue with the bullsh*t Labour rhetoric
“I came from humble origins my mum and dad moved boulders I am working class”
Is that it doesn’t allow for the fact stuff costs money
And apparently Labour MPs don’t sit at home eating split pea soup and rubbing sticks together
They like to have a good as a time as anyone else
The gross irony being much like with the NHS as with a coat or glasses
You will always appreciate a lot more if you work for it and can afford to pay for it yourself
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Post by lynette on Sept 24, 2024 11:21:11 GMT
If you are offered Swiftie tix and everyone knew how hard it was to get them, the internet queuing etc, why not offer to pay for them, ask for a couple more for disadvantaged kids in your consistency and get good vibes?
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Post by NeilVHughes on Sept 24, 2024 19:38:07 GMT
If we have a system in our country, whereby politics is funded by donations, then we have to accept that it's a good thing to do, if it isn't a good thing to do, we should fund it publicly.
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Post by parsley1 on Sept 24, 2024 19:53:43 GMT
If we have a system in our country, whereby politics is funded by donations, then we have to accept that it's a good thing to do, if it isn't a good thing to do, we should fund it publicly. This is quite a basic comment really isn’t it? Having £2000 worth of glasses paid for isn’t funding politics Nor is having your wife’s clothing paid for Neither having a personal shopper How would you feel if your doctor or nurse was having items paid for like this? MPs are paid a salary They can budget from that |
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 24, 2024 20:32:48 GMT
Has Kier really spent £2k on a pair of glasses?
Has his Swifty tickets really cost £4k?
Has the Labour donor who paid for Keir’s wardrobe, really got a VIP pass to 10 Downing Street?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 24, 2024 21:30:25 GMT
According to official records, that would appear to be the case.
No one is denying that such sums were involved.
No one is denying that the Lord involved was given a special pass to Downing Street.
We have yet to be told who authorised that pass.
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 24, 2024 22:21:44 GMT
There is no such thing as an official pass to Downing Street, that is just Daily Mail drivel as usual. I don’t remember the same commotion over Boris Johnson from the Daily Mail, they say the gold wallpaper is force.
The most Kier spent on 1 pair of glasses is £400, the total may have came to £2k for several pairs.
What is the difference with Kier and family getting free Taylor Swift and Prince Williams getting the same tickets, there was no commotion over that.
All donations were declared, this is where Sky News sourced their story from.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 24, 2024 23:41:14 GMT
No one needs 5 or 6 new pairs of glasses. That is just conspicuous consumption. And, being honest, you don't need to spend anything like £400 to get a new pair of specs even with a complex prescription.
And accepting £4k in hospitality from the Premier League at the same time your government is actively seeking to reform the football industry is risking a serious conflict of interest.
We know special access was granted to Downing Street whether it was a physical pass or some other form of access.
Starmer and members of his team have shown a lack of judgement and have opened themselves up to allegations of hypocrisy having so loudly condemned previous government ministers for having behaved in similar ways in the past.
This won't end his premiership. But it will taint it.
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Post by mkb on Sept 25, 2024 2:36:25 GMT
If companies want to give stuff away for free, for the publicity (for whatever reason) that is on them. You’d be a fool not to accept them. ... Why does having a moral compass make you a fool? It's quite straightforward. If anyone gives you anything for free or for a knock-down price in life, you ask yourself a simple question: would they have done the same thing if I did not have the job/power/influence that I do? If the answer is yes, it's a genuine gift, so enjoy; anything else, you should return with a polite thanks but no thanks. |
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2024 6:38:23 GMT
If companies want to give stuff away for free, for the publicity (for whatever reason) that is on them. You’d be a fool not to accept them. ... Why does having a moral compass make you a fool? It's quite straightforward. If anyone gives you anything for free or for a knock-down price in life, you ask yourself a simple question: would they have done the same thing if I did not have the job/power/influence that I do? If the answer is yes, it's a genuine gift, so enjoy; anything else, you should return with a polite thanks but no thanks. Maybe I’m a bit naive, but somebody giving me gifts wouldn’t change my opinions or belief system. |
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Post by parsley1 on Sept 25, 2024 7:02:24 GMT
Why does having a moral compass make you a fool? It's quite straightforward. If anyone gives you anything for free or for a knock-down price in life, you ask yourself a simple question: would they have done the same thing if I did not have the job/power/influence that I do? If the answer is yes, it's a genuine gift, so enjoy; anything else, you should return with a polite thanks but no thanks. Maybe I’m a bit naive, but somebody giving me gifts wouldn’t change my opinions or belief system. Obviously no one gives you gifts VERY naive There is a definitely a moral and ethical aspect to this And for MPs f*** all regulation as to the actual context of what they are given I have already used the example of doctors Who are allowed to accept free pens and gifts below the value of £10 AFTER they have considered carefully GMC guidance In addition any gift over £10 must be declined If sent without warning it must be sent back All offers of gifts for hospitality or events must be recorded and DECLINED There is a direct reason why doctors and other NHS are not allowed to accept gifts as they are in a position of power and responsibility and such gifts can corrupt the relationship with patients and the public There is ABSOLUTELY no difference in this relationship between an MP and their public |
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2024 7:19:09 GMT
Maybe I’m a bit naive, but somebody giving me gifts wouldn’t change my opinions or belief system. Obviously no one gives you gifts VERY naive There is a definitely a moral and ethical aspect to this And for MPs f*** all regulation as to the actual context of what they are given I have already used the example of doctors Who are allowed to accept free pens and gifts below the value of £10 AFTER they have considered carefully GMC guidance In addition any gift over £10 must be declined If sent without warning it must be sent back All offers of gifts for hospitality or events must be recorded and DECLINED There is a direct reason why doctors and other NHS are not allowed to accept gifts as they are in a position of power and responsibility and such gifts can corrupt the relationship with patients and the public There is ABSOLUTELY no difference in this relationship between an MP and their public Like I said, naive. No need to rant into your echo chamber? |
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Post by parsley1 on Sept 25, 2024 7:40:21 GMT
Obviously no one gives you gifts VERY naive There is a definitely a moral and ethical aspect to this And for MPs f*** all regulation as to the actual context of what they are given I have already used the example of doctors Who are allowed to accept free pens and gifts below the value of £10 AFTER they have considered carefully GMC guidance In addition any gift over £10 must be declined If sent without warning it must be sent back All offers of gifts for hospitality or events must be recorded and DECLINED There is a direct reason why doctors and other NHS are not allowed to accept gifts as they are in a position of power and responsibility and such gifts can corrupt the relationship with patients and the public There is ABSOLUTELY no difference in this relationship between an MP and their public Like I said, naive. No need to rant into your echo chamber? Better to rant into a echo chamber Than to live in one |
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Post by Jan on Sept 25, 2024 7:47:23 GMT
Maybe I’m a bit naive, but somebody giving me gifts wouldn’t change my opinions or belief system. It would give them the opportunity to try to do that though. Why might Arsenal and the Premier League give Starmer free tickets where he sits in a corporate hospitality box week after week with their PR staff ? Possibly because it gives them the opportunity to discreetly lobby him on the issue of the powers of a government-appointed football regulator which Arsenal and the Premier League strongly oppose and which Starmer now has to take a decision on. There is an absolutely clear conflict of interest in him accepting that hospitality which he is either oblivious too or he is so sure of his own moral probity that he's not bothered about. MPs banned such personal gifts across the public sector - the civil service for example - and they are also prohibited across private sector industries. But as usual they exempted themselves from the rules. It doesn't help that some of them omitted to declare the gifts correctly or attempted to obscure what they were by for example declaring a birthday party as a work-related event, which it might have been but they spent months accusing Boris Johnson of doing exactly the same thing. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Sept 25, 2024 7:55:04 GMT
No one needs 5 or 6 new pairs of glasses. That is just conspicuous consumption. And, being honest, you don't need to spend anything like £400 to get a new pair of specs even with a complex prescription. And accepting £4k in hospitality from the Premier League at the same time your government is actively seeking to reform the football industry is risking a serious conflict of interest. We know special access was granted to Downing Street whether it was a physical pass or some other form of access. Starmer and members of his team have shown a lack of judgement and have opened themselves up to allegations of hypocrisy having so loudly condemned previous government ministers for having behaved in similar ways in the past. This won't end his premiership. But it will taint it. Firstly he is the Prime Minister he is expected to look good in his role, we are unlike American where the President gets a clothing allowance, I give it to Donald Trump he always looks very smart and is well presented as is Joe Biden, our Prime Minister has to be the same. Secondly Kier has been going to Arsenal for years with his son as a season ticket holder, for security reasons he cannot sit in the stands anymore, you know that, so was gifted the free use of a directors box with the notional value of £4k you are not stupid, come on. If he suddenly started rocking up at the Emirates in a directors box since he has become PM, that would be different. There is a big difference with good wallpaper, because you don’t want the John Lewis look, or food from Fortman and Masons delivered to a Downing Street back door, or Covid contracts to mates, then using Parliament majority to change the rules. We don’t know there was a physical pass granted for Downing Street, because there is not one. |
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Post by Jan on Sept 25, 2024 7:59:48 GMT
There is no such thing as an official pass to Downing Street, that is just Daily Mail drivel as usual. I don’t remember the same commotion over Boris Johnson from the Daily Mail, they say the gold wallpaper is force. The most Kier spent on 1 pair of glasses is £400, the total may have came to £2k for several pairs. What is the difference with Kier and family getting free Taylor Swift and Prince Williams getting the same tickets, there was no commotion over that. All donations were declared, this is where Sky News sourced their story from. You can check here. Multiple pairs of glasses £2485. I see the NT chipped in 4 tickets to Nye plus dinner, which is nice. I didn't realise the Taylor Swift tickets were gifted to him by the Football Association - they must be really worried about the Football Regulator proposals. publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240902/starmer_keir.htmIn the same register my MP (Labour) didn't have anything at all to declare. What a loser. |
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2024 8:05:58 GMT
Like I said, naive. No need to rant into your echo chamber? Better to rant into a echo chamber Than to live in one A double spaced echo chamber…plenty of room. |
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Post by parsley1 on Sept 25, 2024 8:08:55 GMT
There is no such thing as an official pass to Downing Street, that is just Daily Mail drivel as usual. I don’t remember the same commotion over Boris Johnson from the Daily Mail, they say the gold wallpaper is force. The most Kier spent on 1 pair of glasses is £400, the total may have came to £2k for several pairs. What is the difference with Kier and family getting free Taylor Swift and Prince Williams getting the same tickets, there was no commotion over that. All donations were declared, this is where Sky News sourced their story from. You can check here. Multiple pairs of glasses £2485. I see the NT chipped in 4 tickets to Nye plus dinner, which is nice. I didn't realise the Taylor Swift tickets were gifted to him by the Football Association - they must be really worried about the Football Regulator proposals. publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/240902/starmer_keir.htmIn the same register my MP (Labour) didn't have anything at all to declare. What a loser. God all that money and he still looks appalling What a waste |
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Post by Jan on Sept 25, 2024 8:11:40 GMT
Firstly he is the Prime Minister he is expected to look good in his role, we are unlike American where the President gets a clothing allowance, I give it to Donald Trump he always looks very smart and is well presented as is Joe Biden, our Prime Minister has to be the same. Secondly Kier has been going to Arsenal for years with his son as a season ticket holder, for security reasons he cannot sit in the stands anymore, you know that, so was gifted the free use of a directors box with the notional value of £4k you are not stupid, come on. If he suddenly started rocking up at the Emirates in a directors box since he has become PM, that would be different. So according to this why does Starmer's wife have to accept gifts of clothes ? The spouse of the President of USA doesn't get a clothing allowance. Starmer has been accepting football hospitality from way before he was PM (check the register of interests from past years) including during the time Rishi Sunak was quite regularly photographed in the crowd at Southampton - so "security reasons" ?. I see Starmer got 4 tickets to see Coldplay in Manchester in 2023 - that's nice. Also, what's this all about ? I mean UK politicians actually DO get an accommodation allowance: Name of donor: Lord Waheed Alli Address of donor: private Amount of donation or nature and value if donation in kind: Accommodation, value £20,437.28 Date received: 29 May 2024 to 13 July 2024 |
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Post by parsley1 on Sept 25, 2024 8:12:02 GMT
No one needs 5 or 6 new pairs of glasses. That is just conspicuous consumption. And, being honest, you don't need to spend anything like £400 to get a new pair of specs even with a complex prescription. And accepting £4k in hospitality from the Premier League at the same time your government is actively seeking to reform the football industry is risking a serious conflict of interest. We know special access was granted to Downing Street whether it was a physical pass or some other form of access. Starmer and members of his team have shown a lack of judgement and have opened themselves up to allegations of hypocrisy having so loudly condemned previous government ministers for having behaved in similar ways in the past. This won't end his premiership. But it will taint it. Firstly he is the Prime Minister he is expected to look good in his role, we are unlike American where the President gets a clothing allowance, I give it to Donald Trump he always looks very smart and is well presented as is Joe Biden, our Prime Minister has to be the same. Secondly Kier has been going to Arsenal for years with his son as a season ticket holder, for security reasons he cannot sit in the stands anymore, you know that, so was gifted the free use of a directors box with the notional value of £4k you are not stupid, come on. If he suddenly started rocking up at the Emirates in a directors box since he has become PM, that would be different. There is a big difference with good wallpaper, because you don’t want the John Lewis look, or food from Fortman and Masons delivered to a Downing Street back door, or Covid contracts to mates, then using Parliament majority to change the rules. We don’t know there was a physical pass granted for Downing Street, because there is not one. I suspect Donald Trump and his wife Can afford quite lavish clothing from their own pocket as well They are not reliant on handouts |
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2024 8:26:13 GMT
As Phantom said further up, where was the furore when Johnson was accepting all of his gifts? Nowhere, because it was so entrenched in the day to day workings of his administration; backhander after backhander, backscratching galore. Yes it is very disappointing that Starmer can’t see how getting on this train makes him look like a total hypocrite, but the degrees are so massively different. It is just an opportunity to attack when so few others have presented themselves. Great to have so many Daily Mail journalists on the board though.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 25, 2024 8:50:50 GMT
There were plenty of complaints about Johnson.
Including from Starmer and Rayner who both said they would do things differently.
They haven't.
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Post by theglenbucklaird on Sept 25, 2024 8:52:07 GMT
As Phantom said further up, where was the furore when Johnson was accepting all of his gifts? Nowhere, because it was so entrenched in the day to day workings of his administration; backhander after backhander, backscratching galore. Yes it is very disappointing that Starmer can’t see how getting on this train makes him look like a total hypocrite, but the degrees are so massively different. It is just an opportunity to attack when so few others have presented themselves. Great to have so many Daily Mail journalists on the board though. Come on fella, there was a massive furore over Boris and his funding and rightly so. Starmer has to be better |
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Post by danb on Sept 25, 2024 8:57:57 GMT
As Phantom said further up, where was the furore when Johnson was accepting all of his gifts? Nowhere, because it was so entrenched in the day to day workings of his administration; backhander after backhander, backscratching galore. Yes it is very disappointing that Starmer can’t see how getting on this train makes him look like a total hypocrite, but the degrees are so massively different. It is just an opportunity to attack when so few others have presented themselves. Great to have so many Daily Mail journalists on the board though. Come on fella, there was a massive furore over Boris and his funding and rightly so. Starmer has to be better I meant on here, from the people lambasting Starmer? Y’know, I don’t for one second think that anyone can get us out of the hole we’re in comfortably, most of the Western world is the same to varying degrees. We all want want want for as cheaply as possible, then look for someone to blame when it isn’t possible. The thing that needs to change is our collective greed…this was fed through the many Tory years, with narratives spun that it was immigrants and benefit scroungers taking ALL of the money, when a good percentage was being creamed off by them & their mates. What we need is an honesty; to know any new leader isn’t about to allow this again, and unfortunately this misstep is the first chink in Sir Kiers armour. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Sept 25, 2024 9:04:46 GMT
No one needs 5 or 6 new pairs of glasses. That is just conspicuous consumption. And, being honest, you don't need to spend anything like £400 to get a new pair of specs even with a complex prescription. And accepting £4k in hospitality from the Premier League at the same time your government is actively seeking to reform the football industry is risking a serious conflict of interest. We know special access was granted to Downing Street whether it was a physical pass or some other form of access. Starmer and members of his team have shown a lack of judgement and have opened themselves up to allegations of hypocrisy having so loudly condemned previous government ministers for having behaved in similar ways in the past. This won't end his premiership. But it will taint it. Firstly he is the Prime Minister he is expected to look good in his role, we are unlike American where the President gets a clothing allowance, I give it to Donald Trump he always looks very smart and is well presented as is Joe Biden, our Prime Minister has to be the same. Secondly Kier has been going to Arsenal for years with his son as a season ticket holder, for security reasons he cannot sit in the stands anymore, you know that, so was gifted the free use of a directors box with the notional value of £4k you are not stupid, come on. If he suddenly started rocking up at the Emirates in a directors box since he has become PM, that would be different. There is a big difference with good wallpaper, because you don’t want the John Lewis look, or food from Fortman and Masons delivered to a Downing Street back door, or Covid contracts to mates, then using Parliament majority to change the rules. We don’t know there was a physical pass granted for Downing Street, because there is not one. You are conflating the Taylor Swift freebie and the Arsenal box freebie. The first was from the Premier League and had a price of £4000 The second was from Arsenal FC And Lord Alli was given special access to Downing Street. It has been confirmed by Downing Street. "Major Labour donor Lord Waheed Alli did have a pass to Number 10 but it was "temporary" and "given back several weeks ago", Downing Street has confirmed to the BBC." www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86l7xqzze8oOr are you accusing Downing Street of lying? |
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