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Post by Talisman on Aug 6, 2024 11:19:30 GMT
From 4 - 11 Nov
50% discount for over 65. (£15)
No booking fee if Barbican member and booked via their site
Invariably of very high standard
Small theatre with excellent rake
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Post by Mr Snow on Aug 10, 2024 7:51:56 GMT
With the Royal Colege giving us a great Merry Widow last year and now Glyndebourne too, the Operetta revival is here!
Fingers crossed for Offenbach next. Robinson Crusoe, Helene etc. etc.
Have first night tickets to this.
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Post by Talisman on Aug 10, 2024 9:51:54 GMT
With the Royal Colege giving us a great Merry Widow last year and now Glyndebourne too, the Operetta revival is here! Fingers crossed for Offenbach next. Robinson Crusoe, Helene etc. etc. Have first night tickets to this. Bring on Kalman! |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 10, 2024 12:01:19 GMT
If only our classical music broadcasters took operetta as seriously as it deserves.
We should celebrate this most popular of forms a lot more.
Without it, modern musical theatre would not have developed in the way it did
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Post by Talisman on Aug 10, 2024 12:44:13 GMT
If only our classical music broadcasters took operetta as seriously as it deserves. We should celebrate this most popular of forms a lot more. Without it, modern musical theatre would not have developed in the way it did It is good lead in to opera I like G&S (not necessarily in heavy handed productions) but there is much wider and more varied world to explore. Although welcome, it is a pity that Guildhall have selected Fledermaus as they have guaranteed audiences as demonstrated by attendance at some very obscure pieces. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 10, 2024 13:02:22 GMT
The rich seam of melodies that fill most operettas would easily fill an hour a week on R3.
There's more to the genre than G&S, Offenbach, Strauss and Lehar. Though between them there are many hours of glorious music.
It is often hard to say where operetta ends and musicals begin. The line is blurred pretty much through to the 1940s and early 50s.
Shows like The Student Prince, White Horse Inn feel very close to operetta. The same is true of British works like Bless the Bride.
Richard Rodgers and Jerome Kern owe a huge amount to the melodic heritage of the European operetta tradition. And, of course, the greatest of all modern operettas - Candide - which is so deeply rooted in that world.
What would be great is a season of works that traces the lineage from Ballad Operas to Singspiel to Operetta through to the birth of the musical.
For me, operetta is not a gateway to opera. It is a glorious thing in and of itself.
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Post by adamkinsey on Aug 12, 2024 20:22:51 GMT
Great post, OxfordSimon. I'd love to hear Bless the Bride, plus Ellis's other glorious operetta score, Tough at the Top, given Guildhall treatment but won't ever happen. Ditto Coward's Bitter Sweet. At least Saddlers Wells tried in the late 80s. The trouble is, like Novello's operettas, the books are almost hopeless. Ellis was by far the best of the three composers with greater variety of work but has become forgotten. His 20s musical Mr Cinders was a big hit again 40 years ago and would only need a few book tweaks to still work.
Student Prince, New Moon, and a few others are definitely worth a concert airing as are those operetta/musical comedy hybrids Arcadians and Maid of the Mountains. Think White Horse Inn probably not.
G&S has been having a bit of a renaissance the last few years, which is great, but other operetta has disappeared. When was Orpheus in the Underworld last given in London or have I somehow missed it?
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 12, 2024 20:44:12 GMT
Great post, OxfordSimon. I'd love to hear Bless the Bride, plus Ellis's other glorious operetta score, Tough at the Top, given Guildhall treatment but won't ever happen. Ditto Coward's Bitter Sweet. At least Saddlers Wells tried in the late 80s. The trouble is, like Novello's operettas, the books are almost hopeless. Ellis was by far the best of the three composers with greater variety of work but has become forgotten. His 20s musical Mr Cinders was a big hit again 40 years ago and would only need a few book tweaks to still work. Student Prince, New Moon, and a few others are definitely worth a concert airing as are those operetta/musical comedy hybrids Arcadians and Maid of the Mountains. Think White Horse Inn probably not. G&S has been having a bit of a renaissance the last few years, which is great, but other operetta has disappeared. When was Orpheus in the Underworld last given in London or have I somehow missed it? There was an Orpheus at ENO in autumn 2019 but not very enthusiastically received |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 12, 2024 20:58:16 GMT
And we have had Merry Widow at Glyndebourne this year
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Post by Someone in a tree on Aug 13, 2024 8:43:46 GMT
And we have had Merry Widow at Glyndebourne this year MW will be on BBC at some point. I love operetta, Die Fledermaus especially and i am eternally grateful for the D'Oyly Carte for introducing me to it and the magical world of operetta. At school I was in a production of the Gyspy Princess, such happy memories. I'd love to see a production of it. Operetta for me was a great stepping stone between musicals and opera, it helped prepare me for the 'heavier stuff'. Now I appreciate it all - hello dolly, merry widow & die frau ohne schatten. |
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Post by Talisman on Aug 13, 2024 11:08:15 GMT
Great post, OxfordSimon. I'd love to hear Bless the Bride, plus Ellis's other glorious operetta score, Tough at the Top, given Guildhall treatment but won't ever happen. Ditto Coward's Bitter Sweet. At least Saddlers Wells tried in the late 80s. The trouble is, like Novello's operettas, the books are almost hopeless. Ellis was by far the best of the three composers with greater variety of work but has become forgotten. His 20s musical Mr Cinders was a big hit again 40 years ago and would only need a few book tweaks to still work. Student Prince, New Moon, and a few others are definitely worth a concert airing as are those operetta/musical comedy hybrids Arcadians and Maid of the Mountains. Think White Horse Inn probably not. G&S has been having a bit of a renaissance the last few years, which is great, but other operetta has disappeared. When was Orpheus in the Underworld last given in London or have I somehow missed it? There was an Orpheus at ENO in autumn 2019 but not very enthusiastically received Emma Rice directed. Did not work for me . Worked completely against nature of piece. |
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Post by Talisman on Aug 13, 2024 11:09:39 GMT
And we have had Merry Widow at Glyndebourne this year MW will be on BBC at some point. I love operetta, Die Fledermaus especially and i am eternally grateful for the D'Oyly Carte for introducing me to it and the magical world of operetta. At school I was in a production of the Gyspy Princess, such happy memories. I'd love to see a production of it. Operetta for me was a great stepping stone between musicals and opera, it helped prepare me for the 'heavier stuff'. Now I appreciate it all - hello dolly, merry widow & die frau ohne schatten. From merry widow to complete Ring in 5 steps was my journey. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 13, 2024 11:18:13 GMT
There was an Orpheus at ENO in autumn 2019 but not very enthusiastically received Emma Rice directed. Did not work for me . Worked completely against nature of piece. I had blocked any memory of her involvement. I have performed in Orpheus twice. Both times using the Sams translation created for the D'Oyly Carte company. It is based in the original shorter version of the piece with one addition (Mercury's Ronde Saltarelle) There are still copies of the recording out there on the secondary market. Full text including dialogue. Fantastic way to explore the piece. |
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Post by Mr Snow on Aug 14, 2024 20:00:30 GMT
If only our classical music broadcasters took operetta as seriously as it deserves. We should celebrate this most popular of forms a lot more. Without it, modern musical theatre would not have developed in the way it did I have fond memories (IIRC) of:- Sir Roy Strong doing a series (on R3?) on Operetta, I think it was called The land where the Good Songs go. He was very keen on Herve, a rival to Offenbach. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herv%C3%A9_(composer)Alan Titchmarsh regularly playing Operetta on Classic FM. He favoured Romberg, Lehar and other classic"mitteleruopean" composers. Agreed it would be nice to have this, but recently there's also been a dearth of programmes on classic muscials generally and the great Broadway tradition. My favourite Radio programmes of all time were several series of Book, Music and Lyrics by Robert Cushman. First on R4 and later on R3. Must be 25 years since the last one. Also early Jazz is hard to find these days. I like World Music but... Anyway lets hope we do and celebrate if get, more and that all this great material is not forgotten. |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Aug 29, 2024 17:06:21 GMT
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 29, 2024 21:20:28 GMT
I saw Fledermaus done in concert about a decade ago with Butteriss narrating in character & I've also seen several other operettas done in the same way with him. For me, while he is an engaging narrator & the plot is conveyed quite well, I feel the rest of the characters do not come over nearly as strongly when deprived of their dialogue. I accept it for concerts but wouldn't want to see a fully-staged production done that way. |
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 29, 2024 21:40:11 GMT
Most of the translations of Fledermaus have really awful dialogue. So I can understand the temptation to seek a new way forward.
But it would be better to just commission a decent script.
Jeremy Sams did a great job with his version of Orpheus. Lots of puns and an occasional bit of mild smut. It was a well judged adaptation.
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Post by Talisman on Aug 30, 2024 8:34:12 GMT
I saw Fledermaus done in concert about a decade ago with Butteriss narrating in character & I've also seen several other operettas done in the same way with him. For me, while he is an engaging narrator & the plot is conveyed quite well, I feel the rest of the characters do not come over nearly as strongly when deprived of their dialogue. I accept it for concerts but wouldn't want to see a fully-staged production done that way. Saw him narrating Princess Ida a couple of years ago.. i really like Butteriss but he ruined this.. He dominated the show making himself too important. I have no objection at all to innuendo, subtle and unsubtle, but the script was heavily laden with the latter. This simply does not belong in Ida |
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Post by Someone in a tree on Aug 30, 2024 8:45:56 GMT
That was my first and only Ida, i enjoyed it but i cant compare it to others as i have very little knowledge . Didnt one of the subplots or patter songs get chopped in the process though ?
Note to mods, should this thread be changed to Operetta ?
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Post by Talisman on Aug 30, 2024 9:56:57 GMT
It’s one of my favourites, perhaps because I watched it from backstage when Doyly Carte company was in great health with John Reed et al.
I thought it was performed pretty well but would much prefer the dialogue intact but this was a concert performance. It’s a more delicate piece than most with the three sons a dramatic contrast. Role of Gama is not large so Butteriss really hammed. He produced it at the Finbury and it was unpleasantly seedy. I am no purist but this one went too far for this piece.
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 30, 2024 17:17:52 GMT
I thought it was performed pretty well but would much prefer the dialogue intact but this was a concert performance. It’s a more delicate piece than most with the three sons a dramatic contrast. Role of Gama is not large so Butteriss really hammed. He produced it at the Finbury and it was unpleasantly seedy. I am no purist but this one went too far for this piece. I thought that one (I take it you mean Finborough) he only acted in & didn't direct. It was terribly rewritten in my opinion. He directed it for the G&S Festival in Buxton about a decade ago & there were things from that which I recognised in the concert at the RFH last year, such as the 1920s gym slips & hockey sticks aesthetic. I thought the Buxton production, which had the original dialogue, worked better than the narrated concert as I was not at all keen on the narration which I thought had far too many modern references & seemed to assume the audience had no knowledge of Victorian social mores. |
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Post by Talisman on Aug 30, 2024 18:16:23 GMT
Corrections accepted! I was very disappointed as it is a rarity.
The piece seems vulnerable. Saw it in Eltham with decidedly less than youthful prince and companions .
The old Doyly Carte production was delightful.
A couple of years ago I managed to see good productions of Utopia and Grand Duke which was a great privilege.
The first time I saw Butteriss was him playing Marcellinai in Figaro which hedid very well without going over the top.
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 31, 2024 12:42:54 GMT
The old Doyly Carte production was delightful. The first time I saw Butteriss was him playing Marcellinai in Figaro which hedid very well without going over the top. Sadly the company closed several years before I was born so I obviously never saw any of their productions.
Marcellina? Crikey! That must have been an odd production if Marcellina was played in drag.
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Post by SilverFox on Aug 31, 2024 16:08:51 GMT
The old Doyly Carte production was delightful. Sadly the company closed several years before I was born so I obviously never saw any of their productions.
OOeer - I saw D'Oyly Carte at the previous Sadlers Wells, an art-deco London theatre which I think must have been either the Cambridge or the Adelphi, the Shaftesbury, the Bournemouth Pavilion, and at the Manchester Opera House. At the end of the London seasons, for the final Saturday performance they used to do the G&S Last Night which was great fun - you never knew what you were getting, never a complete opera, but muck-ups of various scenes from the repertoire.
I hated their co-production of The Gondoliers with Scottish Opera - the poor Duchess, saddled with that ridiculous costume!
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Post by Talisman on Aug 31, 2024 16:38:17 GMT
Agreed on Scottish opera but the lead baritone was exceptional
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