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Post by parsley1 on Aug 2, 2024 10:20:25 GMT
One does wonder
Quite why Labour wanted to be in power
An endless succession of problems
Which all need addressing with money
Whilst pretending taxes can remain stagnant
Spineless is the common denominator for all politicians irrespective of party
Latest NHS shenanigans are GPs participating in a form of industrial action
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Post by lynette on Aug 3, 2024 19:21:13 GMT
I expect organisations waited to see the result of the GE and think, understandably that Labour will be more generous than previous gov. I do think that they should approach the gov with ideas and cooperation rather than make it difficult for patients at the moment.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 3, 2024 20:31:18 GMT
A good start would be banning the NHS from using agency nurses/doctors.
Then cancel Andrew Langsley’s health reform where General Practice becomes businesses. Does my surgery that is a group of three, really need a Chief Operating Officer and Finance director, whilst not being able to see patients?
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Post by parsley1 on Aug 4, 2024 8:20:06 GMT
A good start would be banning the NHS from using agency nurses/doctors. Then cancel Andrew Langsley’s health reform where General Practice becomes businesses. Does my surgery that is a group of three, really need a Chief Operating Officer and Finance director, whilst not being able to see patients? Impossible Banning agency staff Will leave an unfilled gap And lead to a more dangerous situation Even if you have a fully staffed rota in imaginary land The levels of sickness or people leaving before their rotation is over is too high and turnover too rapid They cannot fill gaps immediately To manage without agency or locum help |
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Post by aspieandy on Aug 4, 2024 9:07:05 GMT
I expect organisations waited to see the result of the GE and think, understandably that Labour will be more generous than previous gov. I do think that they should approach the gov with ideas and cooperation rather than make it difficult for patients at the moment. I was suprised the GPs went ahead so soon after the election. They did wait until not being included in the pay decision for NHS staff but it still feels a little confrontational. Was there any time for re/negotiation of did they just plough on.
I wonder if, in practice and Practice, this will prove to be a lot of hot air.
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Post by danb on Aug 4, 2024 12:11:31 GMT
Hopefully, (and there are promising shoots of this) the new gov are looking to quash the financial extremism of the last 14 years. Wanting to make the most, save the most, divide the most, rather than create a more level financial landscape for everyone to exist in. The GP’s have overlooked this more good natured approach by thinking that they deserve some of the goodwill shown to the junior Drs. I hope it doesn’t bite them, especially as our practice is fantastic and very accessible (as long as the receptionist is in a good mood).
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Post by aspieandy on Aug 4, 2024 12:26:14 GMT
To avoid confusion, the GP dispute is not about pay. The Practic contract offered by the Tory governemt limits, effectivly reduces, NHS GP services available to the public, which some might see as a further gain for the private sector. This is what the BMA say: |
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Post by danb on Aug 4, 2024 12:47:16 GMT
I was thinking more of the goodwill and the massive amount of unpicking it’ll take, or are they able to just tear up contracts because they’re ‘new’?
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Post by parsley1 on Aug 4, 2024 14:28:06 GMT
33% of GPs work full time
Some years ago this was 40%
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Post by aspieandy on Aug 4, 2024 15:37:49 GMT
33% of GPs work full time Some years ago this was 40% That's a great statistic: "some years ago".
It's not a secret that, in general, mothers prefer to work closer to home and work hours that fit with child care. In that sense, the NHS is not so different from Tesco or driving/delivery roles.
It is also not unknown that there are more female GPs than male in the NHS - male doctors, for obv. reasons, somewhat preferring hospital-orientated careers, which tend to be full-time and some.
Incidentally, this is also the basis of the much promoted/bogus 'gender pay gap', but that's another story (parents make choices around what is best for their family).
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Post by parsley1 on Aug 4, 2024 15:54:42 GMT
33% of GPs work full time Some years ago this was 40% That's a great statistic: "some years ago".
It's not a secret that, in general, mothers prefer to work closer to home and work hours that fit with child care. In that sense, the NHS is not so different from Tesco or driving/delivery roles.
It is also not unknown that there are more female GPs than male in the NHS - male doctors, for obv. reasons, somewhat preferring hospital-orientated careers, which tend to be full-time and some.
Incidentally, this is also the basis of the much promoted/bogus 'gender pay gap', but that's another story: parents make choices around what is best for their family.
Since 2019 the number of GPs working full time has dropped to just under 30% The share of consultants working less than full-time in the NHS acute sector rose from 15.6% in April 2012 to 21.6% in August 2021. I suspect this is even higher by 2025 The largest percentage increase was for male consultants aged under 50, with the share in this group working less than full-time rising by 75%, from 4.7% to 8.2%. In addition up to 25% of trainees in any specialty choose to work less than full time But may locum in addition |
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Post by aspieandy on Aug 4, 2024 15:56:55 GMT
No data based around Covid/lockdowns is a reliable comparison to how things were before. Every aspect of the workplace has changed, inc in particular early retirement.
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Post by parsley1 on Aug 4, 2024 16:00:29 GMT
No data based around Covid/lockdowns is a reliable comparison to how things were before. Every aspect of the workplace has changed, inc in articular early retirement. I am sure if you need an operation Or give birth to a baby It’s done face to face As far as I amaware we can’t operate on people virtually from home |
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Post by Jan on Aug 4, 2024 17:11:20 GMT
To avoid confusion, the GP dispute is not about pay.
Really ? Pull the other one. GPs are all in the private sector anyway, why isn't Labour proposing to nationalise them and put them on normal employee contracts with a requirement to work 5 days a week ? |
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Post by danb on Aug 4, 2024 17:19:01 GMT
Because they know that realistically they’d all just leave & cash in their pensions.
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Post by Jan on Aug 4, 2024 17:23:43 GMT
Because they know that realistically they’d all just leave & cash in their pensions. Some of them are already working only 3 days a week to avoid tax on the value of their pension. Several GP practices are owned by American private healthcare companies - that's how lucrative they can be. |
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Post by aspieandy on Aug 4, 2024 18:08:01 GMT
To avoid confusion, the GP dispute is not about pay.
Really ? Pull the other one. GPs are all in the private sector anyway, why isn't Labour proposing to nationalise them and put them on normal employee contracts with a requirement to work 5 days a week ? They'd lose too many to private practice. Many middle-class parents have school fees to pay, which they manage with a bit of private as a sideline (and maybe a little family wealth, as well).
There is a balance here that has been working: contract / pension contribs / side hustle.
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Post by Jan on Aug 4, 2024 18:15:33 GMT
Really ? Pull the other one. GPs are all in the private sector anyway, why isn't Labour proposing to nationalise them and put them on normal employee contracts with a requirement to work 5 days a week ? They'd lose too many to private practice. Many middle-class parents have school fees to pay, which they manage with a bit of private as a sideline (and maybe a little family wealth, as well).
There is a balance here that has been working: contract / pension contribs / side hustle.
UK GPs are already the highest paid in Europe apart from Germany, their pay levels are double those in Italy and Spain. Still, if they can get a 22% increase fair play to them, Streeting has set the precedent and will have to deal with the fallout. |
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Post by aspieandy on Aug 4, 2024 18:21:36 GMT
They don't work for the NHS directly, though; I'm no sure you are comparing like with like, not least becasue the NHS is a unique model.
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Post by Jan on Aug 4, 2024 18:41:23 GMT
They don't work for the NHS directly, though; I'm no sure you are comparing like with like, not least becasue the NHS is a unique model. And GPs in those other countries I mentioned don't directly work for a national health service either. So I think it is close to like-for-like. However the UK is unusual in that doctors' salaries are negotiated and set centrally by the government, other countries have a more devolved model where pay negotiations are with individual hospitals or insurance companies, so in those cases there is variation in pay. |
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 4, 2024 19:12:53 GMT
All this is because of Andrew Langley health reformat under David Cameron, just before that the need for a GP to see you in 72hrs was scrapped.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 4, 2024 19:18:28 GMT
A good start would be banning the NHS from using agency nurses/doctors. Then cancel Andrew Langsley’s health reform where General Practice becomes businesses. Does my surgery that is a group of three, really need a Chief Operating Officer and Finance director, whilst not being able to see patients? Impossible Banning agency staff Will leave an unfilled gap And lead to a more dangerous situation Even if you have a fully staffed rota in imaginary land The levels of sickness or people leaving before their rotation is over is too high and turnover too rapid They cannot fill gaps immediately To manage without agency or locum help Why cannot nurses work for the hospital on the bank staff like they used to? The NHS is paying a fortune for agency staff, scrap it. When I was recovering from my operation, I witnessed an agency nurse sitting for 12hrs on her phone, surfing the net, the hospital nurses were running round like headless chickens. |
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Post by parsley1 on Aug 4, 2024 19:53:38 GMT
Impossible Banning agency staff Will leave an unfilled gap And lead to a more dangerous situation Even if you have a fully staffed rota in imaginary land The levels of sickness or people leaving before their rotation is over is too high and turnover too rapid They cannot fill gaps immediately To manage without agency or locum help Why cannot nurses work for the hospital on the bank staff like they used to? The NHS is paying a fortune for agency staff, scrap it. When I was recovering from my operation, I witnessed an agency nurse sitting for 12hrs on her phone, surfing the net, the hospital nurses were running round like headless chickens. Staff do work bank But more and more they choose to spend their free time not working in an environment they are dissatisfied with And bank rates have been capped or controlled So it’s often not worth their while The agency rate will be better Particularly for specialist or short notice areas Such as paediatric intensive care or mental health nurses Clinical work is the most stressful and draining option Yet worst renumerated Non clinical work is more sustainable in the longer term and better paid on the whole What would you choose? |
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Post by aspieandy on Aug 4, 2024 22:32:30 GMT
We know the Tories have been undermining the service for a decade and a half while empowering the private sector; it has been a case of death by a thousand cuts. The current issue with GP Practice contracts is a simple example.
Everything we see happening now is a sympton of intentional vandalism.
Another: anyone remember nursing bursaries? Let's do away with those and get in thousands of foreign nurses (and dependents) who can work through agencies; a perfect free market. That alone will take beyond a 5-year Parliamentary term to remedy. In the mean time it will continue to cost £billions - as the Tories intended.
The best thing the gov could do was pay the staff; only with the goodwill of NHS staff can you even begin to think about how to fix this.
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Post by oxfordsimon on Aug 4, 2024 22:52:08 GMT
Having spent a lot of time with my father in hospital in recent months, my experience is of a system where there are a few shining stars who go above and beyond to look after the patients in their care, and too many people going through the motions at best.
Something needs to change but I think it is cultural more than financial.
I was lied to by doctors. My father was prescribed medication that made his final weeks blighted by hallucinations and confusion. One nurse told me father to 'just die'
Some of his possessions were stolen from the ward. The staff couldn't care less about that
They had my long dead mother down as his next of kin because their failed to do paperwork properly.
Early in the process, he was subject to a failed discharge because the ward at the time couldn't be bothered to do the basic checks. He was back at the hospital within 2 hours and never left again.
I have a twelve point complaint active against the hospital for their mistreatment and mistakes
And just this last week, my GP surgery carried out a blood test on me without telling me they were going to do it, let alone gaining my informed consent.
That is contrary to all medical rules when dealing with an adult who is fully able to give it withhold their consent.
It is tantamount to a serious assault.
I am still considering my legal options on that one.
If I had the resources, I would never use the NHS again. I have no trust in the hospital system and I have no trust in my GP surgery.
More money is not necessarily the solution.
Having a better patient-centred culture is what is needed.
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