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Post by BurlyBeaR on Apr 18, 2024 13:20:29 GMT
We live in a world these days where even omelettes are over-egged. You’re on a roll with the dad jokes today! |
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Post by viserys on Apr 18, 2024 13:32:25 GMT
I guess Oliver is similar to Annie or Joseph in that many people have been part of am dram/school productions, so it was their intro to musical theatre and a new big revival every 20 years or so is the right time interval to haul the next generation into the theatre.
Personally I couldn't care less, it's even mildly amusing to me that Carousel keeps getting trashed for supposedly promoting domestic violence while nobody seems to have a problem with a character like Nancy, whose only raison d'etre in the show seems to be belt out a drippy song how she'll stick by her evil violent boyfriend, who beats her.
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Post by anthony40 on Apr 18, 2024 13:45:19 GMT
Interesting fact, in London there are a set of steps leading up to London Bridge called Nancy's Steps.
There was a plaque. Not too sure if this ever was replaced.
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Apr 18, 2024 14:41:55 GMT
I guess Oliver is similar to Annie or Joseph in that many people have been part of am dram/school productions, so it was their intro to musical theatre and a new big revival every 20 years or so is the right time interval to haul the next generation into the theatre. Personally I couldn't care less, it's even mildly amusing to me that Carousel keeps getting trashed for supposedly promoting domestic violence while nobody seems to have a problem with a character like Nancy, whose only raison d'etre in the show seems to be belt out a drippy song how she'll stick by her evil violent boyfriend, who beats her. As much as I'm ambivalent about Oliver!, I don't see how the show is comparable to Carousel - Bill Sikes isn't exactly painted in a sympathetic light and Nancy's song isn't a lesson to live by, it's tragic, whereas Billy Bigelow is kind of just made out to be a misguided dolt who beats his wife but loves her deep down and he helped his daughter sing a song one time (despite earlier hitting her within minutes of meeting her for the first time as a ghost) so all is forgiven I guess? Edit: just to note, I don't think Carousel is irredeemable as some - overall I think it's clearly not promoting domestic violence, but I think its redemption arc for Bill is far too easy and neat and tidy for someone who up until the last 5 minutes of the show has basically made every bad possible choice (albeit perhaps without always intending harm but that only goes so far to make up for his actions) and then gets into heaven by vaguely sort of breaking the cycle of what, isolation I guess? |
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Post by singingbird on Apr 18, 2024 14:43:03 GMT
Personally I couldn't care less, it's even mildly amusing to me that Carousel keeps getting trashed for supposedly promoting domestic violence while nobody seems to have a problem with a character like Nancy, whose only raison d'etre in the show seems to be belt out a drippy song how she'll stick by her evil violent boyfriend, who beats her. Interesting perspective. To me, that's what makes it such a powerful song. It is so sad, and tragically very honest. It also has a wonderful key change into the last verse. That a supposedly family-friendly, big and bright musical can have a character so psychologically damaged as Nancy is one of the most powerful things about the show. I also think Bart is hugely underrated as a lyricist - I mean, can anything beat I will own a suite at Claridges, And run a fleet of carriages, And wave at all the duchesses With friendliness, as much as is Befitting of my new estate... "Good morrow to you, magistrate!" I think I'd better think it out again. I do feel that Oliver loses steam as it goes on, but it has an incredibly ear-wormy score. Personally, I'd prefer a full-scale revival of Bart's Maggie May, but I very much doubt that'll ever happen. I'd also highly recommend his concept album Isn't This Where We Came In? which traces a life from birth to death. Indulgent at times, but like nothing else and completely fascinating, with some amazing songs. |
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Post by viserys on Apr 18, 2024 14:55:06 GMT
Nancy's song isn't a lesson to live by, it's tragic Sure, I know that, but personally I just don't want to see female characters anymore whose lives are entirely defined by men and/or whose only point in the show is to orbit around men. Much like the dreadful Miss Saigon gained a lot by casting a female Engineer and thereby redress the power balance somewhat, I think it may be a lot of fun to cast a female Fagin to offset the drippy Nancy. Anyway, don't mind me, I have very strong feelings about these issues  On a selfish level I'm glad that this is another show I can happy give a miss, freeing me up for things I'd rather see or save a lot of money on shortening my London trips! |
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Post by blamerobots on Apr 18, 2024 14:58:35 GMT
Reading about how this production is a return to a more intimate Oliver, I'm guessing we won't be seeing Oom-Pah-Pah at a pub down the road broadcasted live to the theatre. It has me intrigued that they're this eager to put it on the West End with such flair; Oliver in a smaller-scale has the opportunity to be great  |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Apr 18, 2024 15:05:15 GMT
It's certainly an interesting take this time around. It's been a long time since the show itself was the star and it's not relied on star casting in Fagin. Curious to see how it does.
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Post by alicechallice on Apr 18, 2024 15:06:43 GMT
I think it's a shame that it's transfer has been announced so early, it takes the shine off it being a success for Chichester in the first instance.
The Half a Sixpence WE transfer wasn't announced until after it had finished at CFT.
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Post by blamerobots on Apr 18, 2024 15:17:19 GMT
I wonder how long it's been in the works for.
I know we now live in the age where ticket sales are enough to justify a Broadway transfer but it being such a straight shot for the West End, hopefully it's something special. |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Apr 18, 2024 15:18:08 GMT
I think it's a shame that it's transfer has been announced so early, it takes the shine off it being a success for Chichester in the first instance. The Half a Sixpence WE transfer wasn't announced until after it had finished at CFT. Yeah it does take away any fanfare of a successful Chichester production Although on the other extreme, if it's rubbish then people will already have purchased tickets for London before word gets out. |
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Post by alicechallice on Apr 18, 2024 15:21:48 GMT
I wonder how long it's been in the works for.
I know we now live in the age where ticket sales are enough to justify a Broadway transfer but it being such a straight shot for the West End, hopefully it's something special. I expect it was being planned back when Daniel Evans was in charge. He'd also programmed it when in Sheffield (Xmas 2013; Tom Edden as Fagin, replacing an indisposed Phil Davis). |
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Post by juicy_but_terribly_drab on Apr 18, 2024 15:34:56 GMT
Nancy's song isn't a lesson to live by, it's tragic Sure, I know that, but personally I just don't want to see female characters anymore whose lives are entirely defined by men and/or whose only point in the show is to orbit around men. Much like the dreadful Miss Saigon gained a lot by casting a female Engineer and thereby redress the power balance somewhat, I think it may be a lot of fun to cast a female Fagin to offset the drippy Nancy. Anyway, don't mind me, I have very strong feelings about these issues On a selfish level I'm glad that this is another show I can happy give a miss, freeing me up for things I'd rather see or save a lot of money on shortening my London trips! I totally sympathise with that reading of her character, just personally think that's a different issue to Carousel's treatment of abuse. |
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Post by hannechalk on Apr 18, 2024 15:45:13 GMT
Griff Rhys Jones definitely did it at some point, and I vaguely remember Russ Abbot did too (possible I'm making the last one up) Oh yeah! Russ closed it according to a Google I cannot remember when I saw it, but I had Neil Morissey as Fagin (yes, Bob the Builder-jokes were made) and Samantha Barks as Nancy. |
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Post by Being Alive on Apr 18, 2024 15:50:52 GMT
Oh yeah! Russ closed it according to a Google I cannot remember when I saw it, but I had Neil Morissey as Fagin (yes, Bob the Builder-jokes were made) and Samantha Barks as Nancy. Touring version of the Drury lane production |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Apr 18, 2024 15:56:02 GMT
Oh yeah! Russ closed it according to a Google I cannot remember when I saw it, but I had Neil Morissey as Fagin (yes, Bob the Builder-jokes were made) and Samantha Barks as Nancy. Yeah he shared it with Brian conley who did other venues (and yes, it's a puppet jokes were made). One thing I hope this new production does is take the panto elements out |
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Post by blamerobots on Apr 18, 2024 16:10:38 GMT
I wonder how long it's been in the works for.
I know we now live in the age where ticket sales are enough to justify a Broadway transfer but it being such a straight shot for the West End, hopefully it's something special. I expect it was being planned back when Daniel Evans was in charge. He'd also programmed it when in Sheffield (Xmas 2013; Tom Edden as Fagin, replacing an indisposed Phil Davis). I'd heard good things about Daniel Evans' 2013 Oliver, especially regarding Edden's performance.
Hopefully this revival is trying to channel the same kind of tone that production was striving for, judging by the main artwork. Oliver always has a darkness especially in Act 2 which can really be drawn out with great direction.
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Post by FairyGodmother on Apr 18, 2024 16:25:19 GMT
I cannot remember when I saw it, but I had Neil Morissey as Fagin (yes, Bob the Builder-jokes were made) and Samantha Barks as Nancy. Touring version of the Drury lane production That was the tour where he went on stage in Manchester to announce that Sam Barks was going to be Eponine in the Les Mis film. That's an exciting announcement. (Although I am one of the many who was in a school production of Oliver and enjoys it.) |
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Post by distantcousin on Apr 19, 2024 7:47:33 GMT
Same. I saw it in the 2000's. I think with Kerry Ellis as Nancy. Can't even remember who played Fagin. Went to see what all the fuss was about. Got a day ticket from Leicester Square - ah, happy days of that. Thought the show was fine. Nothing bad about it. But it didn't move me. It entertained me on a basic level. Didn't hate it. Did it leave me thinking about it? No. Was that off the back of “Search for a Nancy” or whatever the BBC program was called? It was Jody Prenger but I saw Kerry Ellis too. I think it was Rowan Atkinson? Unless I’m getting my productions confused. Yes, you're right - it was Rowan. |
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On a selfish level I'm glad that this is another show I can happy give a miss, freeing me up for things I'd rather see or save a lot of money on shortening my London trips! 
