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Post by parsley1 on Nov 14, 2024 16:11:26 GMT
It grossed less than Hills Of California
I have said this before
But will say again
I wonder what delusion
Leads people to think a show with a limited run
In a tiny theatre with a very loyal audience
Belongs on Broadway
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Post by Phantom of London on Nov 14, 2024 16:39:56 GMT
It grossed less than Hills Of California I have said this before But will say again I wonder what delusion Leads people to think a show with a limited run In a tiny theatre with a very loyal audience Belongs on Broadway Maybe Happy Ending grossed $300k last week, which is abysmal however it has just received the best reviews of the seasons, with 14 raves. So will be interesting to see what happens at the box office. Obviously Tammy needs Devine intervention with the critics.
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Post by max on Nov 14, 2024 18:23:04 GMT
There are a couple of unusual chords in the trailer that sound like an edit or transition to another song - we're so used to the rhythm of show trailers that I was expecting that. It makes it an odd watch. I think they've made a mistake.
I'm baffled if this isn't finding an audience. I can only guess that people heartily sick of slick money grabbing hucksters can't bear to watch (I wouldn't want to at this political moment), while others might fear it's going to mock religious faith. I'm not sure who that leaves - collectors of new musicals?
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Post by max on Nov 14, 2024 19:04:49 GMT
I just watched the 'Good Morning America' slot, which was Mark Evans singing as Billy Graham (though that wasn't named in the intro). Tammy Faye only has a few lines and is mainly chorus in that song. The choreography reminds me of 'Don't Mess With Mr Booze' from 'Family Guy' but doesn't go as far (no backflips or somersaults). This may be another case of something not being savagely satirical, but not quite finding what to be instead.
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Post by theatrefan62 on Nov 14, 2024 19:05:37 GMT
Yet another show that goes down well in London so the producers get greedy and bypass the west end and rush straight for the bigger target of Broadway, and it's a massive failure. Just like Groundhog Day and American Psycho before it.
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Post by max on Nov 14, 2024 19:13:39 GMT
Yet another show that goes down well in London so the producers get greedy and bypass the west end and rush straight for the bigger target of Broadway, and it's a massive failure. Just like Groundhog Day and American Psycho before it. Feels like it. Someone under the YouTube video for the 'Good Morning America' appearance says: "My biggest complaint is that they're plugging a Broadway show and leave out the two actors American audiences are most familiar with. Dumb move". More than a dumb move, it'll feel to hard-boiled Broadway watchers, and the financiers of the show, that this appearance is going through the motions, no big guns and and a tacit retreat
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Post by Mark on Nov 15, 2024 4:17:08 GMT
The reviews are pretty brutal. I honestly wish I could put my finger on what went so wrong here.
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Post by jr on Nov 15, 2024 6:00:31 GMT
The reviews are pretty brutal. I honestly wish I could put my finger on what went so wrong here. Mmmmm I repeat myself but this wasn't good in London in the first place.THE BOOK IS TERRIBLE. James Graham is way overrated. I think this paragraph from the NY Times review summarise it nicely. "But narratively and emotionally, “Tammy Faye” is always on shaky ground because it can’t decide if it’s a satire of televangelism and power-hungry faith salesmen, the tale of the rise of politicized religion, or the earnest feminist journey of an independent-minded woman. By trying to hit so many notes, none of them resonate." www.nytimes.com/2024/11/14/theater/tammy-faye-review.html
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Post by couldileaveyou on Nov 15, 2024 6:21:12 GMT
DTLI Consensus: Broadway’s latest biomusical, courtesy of Sir Elton John, is disappointingly hell-bound. 7 negative (including the NYT), 6 mixed, 1 positive. didtheylikeit.com/shows/tammy-faye/
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Post by max on Nov 15, 2024 8:23:04 GMT
The reviews are pretty brutal. I honestly wish I could put my finger on what went so wrong here. Last night I watched a youtube video review (of a preview) by Matthew Hardy who has a channel called 'Bored & Confused'; he came up quite firmly with what I'd only wondered about. Paraphrasing him: Religious fervour has led to MAGA - something New Yorkers don't want to pay to watch; out of towners and others give a swerve to the possibility their religion will be mocked. Hardly anyone remains. But the 'what went wrong' has to date back to just after the London run. I just checked, and Tammy Faye opened at the Almeida after Roe v Wade was overturned in the USA - perhaps they should have read the signs about what flies in America, but got intoxicated by American praise*. Perhaps they thought Trump was heading to prison or at least barred from office, and America would soon vote to step away from MAGA . This week I felt uncomfortable watching the trailer and Good Morning America slot - it seemed obvious the show would repel some, and offend the remainder. I can't claim I had such insight back then. Enjoyed it at the Almeida, but was aware fantastic performances and the close-up intimacy of the venue were selling the material hard (pleasant but average songs, with not a single one to add to Elton John's Greatest Hits). I remember thinking a slowed down version of 'I'm Still Standing' would work and was needed, alongside other jukebox elements (as Boy George mixed original and existing in 'Taboo'). *Do New York critics rave about London shows, just in order to watch them fail on Broadway? I'm aware it's often a different reviewer from the same paper - but even that seems like a newspaper editor's 'play' in the game. Or the time and circumstance (religious/political) just weren't what we thought they were.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Nov 15, 2024 8:37:56 GMT
This isn’t gonna last until Christmas after those reviews. I’m really sad for Katie, she’s such a brilliant talent and this should have been a big triumph for her in New York.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Nov 15, 2024 10:02:24 GMT
I was at the show last night and had a great time but evidently something went badly wrong. It's a shame. It grossed less than Hills Of California I have said this before But will say again I wonder what delusion Leads people to think a show with a limited run In a tiny theatre with a very loyal audience Belongs on Broadway Okay but it was created for the West End. It had a contract to open in the West End until Rupert was hired and requested they add a pre-West End run first. It's sheer bad luck that the West End run got cancelled leaving a run that was only added relatively late in the process as the sole London run. Yet another show that goes down well in London so the producers get greedy and bypass the west end and rush straight for the bigger target of Broadway, and it's a massive failure. Just like Groundhog Day and American Psycho before it. That simply is not what happened. The plan was always to do West End then Broadway. The West End run had to be cancelled because Katie got pregnant, and then they lost their venue, and they had no choice but to go straight to their Broadway commitment because there was no suitable venue in London that was available for the dates they would have needed. They didn't "rush straight for Broadway", they did everything possible to try to salvage the cancelled West End run. Opening nearly cold on Broadway was the last thing the producers or anyone else on the show wanted. Sometimes plans can be in the making for years but life happens and things disrupt those plans.
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Post by theatrefan62 on Nov 15, 2024 10:14:33 GMT
I was at the show last night and had a great time but evidently something went badly wrong. It's a shame. It grossed less than Hills Of California I have said this before But will say again I wonder what delusion Leads people to think a show with a limited run In a tiny theatre with a very loyal audience Belongs on Broadway Okay but it was created for the West End. It had a contract to open in the West End until Rupert was hired and requested they add a pre-West End run first. It's sheer bad luck that the West End run got cancelled leaving a run that was only added relatively late in the process as the sole London run. Yet another show that goes down well in London so the producers get greedy and bypass the west end and rush straight for the bigger target of Broadway, and it's a massive failure. Just like Groundhog Day and American Psycho before it. That simply is not what happened. The plan was always to do West End then Broadway. The West End run had to be cancelled because Katie got pregnant, and then they lost their venue, and they had no choice but to go straight to their Broadway commitment because there was no suitable venue in London that was available for the dates they would have needed. They didn't "rush straight for Broadway", they did everything possible to try to salvage the cancelled West End run. Opening nearly cold on Broadway was the last thing the producers or anyone else on the show wanted. Sometimes plans can be in the making for years but life happens and things disrupt those plans. Valid points, but you still say they had to go to their 'Broadway commitment ' which implies they still had broadway planned very early on with a theatre and dated etc. So still a pretty quick transfer with assumptions made it would be a hit transfer.
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Post by max on Nov 15, 2024 10:28:52 GMT
The different reception in the USA (cultural/political) seems to be the problem. What more could they have learned about that from a West End run? Well, maybe a bit, but surely nothing that trying differently edited videos of the Almeida version couldn't also have achieved on actual Americans in America. Video never captures the feeling of being there, that can smooth over imperfections, but that just makes it a tougher watch - usefully tough.
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Post by theatrefan62 on Nov 15, 2024 10:35:37 GMT
But why is broadway always seen as the better goal anyway.
It's far more expensive and cut throat. But so many of these shows see broadway as the better goal and bypass the west end. London is like their regional try out.
Other shows take a more cautious approach and build on their successes, like Six and Operation Mincemeat (granted how that broadway transfer goes is tbc).
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Post by parsley1 on Nov 15, 2024 11:14:17 GMT
Some examples work well
I always knew when I saw the first preview
Of Sunny Afternoon at Hampstead
It was going to be a massive WE hit
Most of the time though
Transfers are based on arrogance and delusion
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Post by parsley1 on Nov 15, 2024 11:15:50 GMT
I was at the show last night and had a great time but evidently something went badly wrong. It's a shame. It grossed less than Hills Of California I have said this before But will say again I wonder what delusion Leads people to think a show with a limited run In a tiny theatre with a very loyal audience Belongs on Broadway Okay but it was created for the West End. It had a contract to open in the West End until Rupert was hired and requested they add a pre-West End run first. It's sheer bad luck that the West End run got cancelled leaving a run that was only added relatively late in the process as the sole London run. Yet another show that goes down well in London so the producers get greedy and bypass the west end and rush straight for the bigger target of Broadway, and it's a massive failure. Just like Groundhog Day and American Psycho before it. That simply is not what happened. The plan was always to do West End then Broadway. The West End run had to be cancelled because Katie got pregnant, and then they lost their venue, and they had no choice but to go straight to their Broadway commitment because there was no suitable venue in London that was available for the dates they would have needed. They didn't "rush straight for Broadway", they did everything possible to try to salvage the cancelled West End run. Opening nearly cold on Broadway was the last thing the producers or anyone else on the show wanted. Sometimes plans can be in the making for years but life happens and things disrupt those plans. The show has neither the heft nor appeal nor substance nor songs To be relevant in a mainstream setting
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Post by Someone in a tree on Nov 15, 2024 12:33:55 GMT
I quite liked it at the Almeida and EJ's music was servicable. Never did it wow me.
Opening after this election was as silly as the plan to take it broadway.
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Post by parsley1 on Nov 15, 2024 12:49:13 GMT
Issue remains both on broadway and west end
Too many theatres
Nothing worthy to fill most of them
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Post by Jon on Nov 15, 2024 12:53:40 GMT
But why is broadway always seen as the better goal anyway. It's far more expensive and cut throat. But so many of these shows see broadway as the better goal and bypass the west end. London is like their regional try out. Other shows take a more cautious approach and build on their successes, like Six and Operation Mincemeat (granted how that broadway transfer goes is tbc). Two years isn't really rushing to Broadway though. I do think the producers should have gone for a smaller theatre, the Palace is huge and you'd think Elton John of all people would have learnt from the experience of Lestat which played at the same theatre.
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Post by samuelwhiskers on Nov 15, 2024 13:46:28 GMT
I love Six and Operation Mincemeat but I'm not sure if they're good comparisons because they both started as tiny fringe shows created as passion projects by unknowns and evolved organically from being able to see which bits connected or didn't connect with audiences. Or maybe I'm wrong and that's why they are good comparisons, because maybe Tammy Faye's creative push was coming from the wrong place.
I assume people know this, but Tammy Faye only exists because Elton John has long been obsessed with Tammy and decided to use his vast wealth and fame to essentially commission a huge West End musical around his personal pet interest. He created the idea and concept and put everything in place for that musical to go into the West End, then after everything was in place he went out and started interviewing playwrights. James Graham landed the gig off being one of several playwrights who interviewed. Then James suggested Rupert Goold as director. Compare that to Dear England which started from James and Rupert's shared passion for football, shared obsession with Gareth Southgate, and shared interest in using theatre to explore 21stC masculinity. Or compare to Six or Operation Mincemeat which like Dear England both had the starting point of group of creatives realising they had a mutual interest and wanting to mutually explore that interest theatrically.
I know Elton was also one of the creatives, but it somewhat reminds me of playwrights in the Elizabethan era writing plays to serve the needs and interests of their wealthy patrons or royals. Maybe wealthy person hiring a playwright to write a custom-show to serve their own pet interest isn't the best way to create a show that will connect with wide audiences.
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Post by shownut on Nov 15, 2024 15:10:10 GMT
I love Six and Operation Mincemeat but I'm not sure if they're good comparisons because they both started as tiny fringe shows created as passion projects by unknowns and evolved organically from being able to see which bits connected or didn't connect with audiences. Or maybe I'm wrong and that's why they are good comparisons, because maybe Tammy Faye's creative push was coming from the wrong place. I assume people know this, but Tammy Faye only exists because Elton John has long been obsessed with Tammy and decided to use his vast wealth and fame to essentially commission a huge West End musical around his personal pet interest. He created the idea and concept and put everything in place for that musical to go into the West End, then after everything was in place he went out and started interviewing playwrights. James Graham landed the gig off being one of several playwrights who interviewed. Then James suggested Rupert Goold as director. Compare that to Dear England which started from James and Rupert's shared passion for football, shared obsession with Gareth Southgate, and shared interest in using theatre to explore 21stC masculinity. Or compare to Six or Operation Mincemeat which like Dear England both had the starting point of group of creatives realising they had a mutual interest and wanting to mutually explore that interest theatrically. I know Elton was also one of the creatives, but it somewhat reminds me of playwrights in the Elizabethan era writing plays to serve the needs and interests of their wealthy patrons or royals. Maybe wealthy person hiring a playwright to write a custom-show to serve their own pet interest isn't the best way to create a show that will connect with wide audiences. If that is the case then maybe Elton made the chief mistake of asking a British playwright to tell a distinctly American story and hiring a director without a hit Broadway musical to his name. One can only imagine Elton's contribution matched with a playwright like Douglas Carter Beane or Tony Kushner and a director like Casey Nicholaw or Thomas Kail. It sickens me to see this show fail so spectacularly.
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Post by Jon on Nov 15, 2024 15:19:30 GMT
I assume Elton wasn't as hands on with Devil Wears Prada given that they completely changed the creative team from Chicago to Plymouth aside from him and Shaina Taub.
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Post by Jon on Nov 15, 2024 15:50:13 GMT
American Psycho didn't debut on Broadway until 2016 so like Tammy Faye, two years which doesn't seem like rushing to Broadway.
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Post by showtoones on Nov 15, 2024 16:01:16 GMT
What I hear is that it’s going to close quickly and Ragtime from Encores starring Caissie Levy will be transferring into that theatre.
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