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Post by mkb on Mar 12, 2024 12:03:15 GMT
...I have been distressed for days by my inability to understand how this show could have come to be in such a terrible state and why. ... I jokingly pondered last night whether each preview is carefully scripted to be unique and terrible, only for Opening Night's opening night to come together magnificently, mirroring events on stage. That would be genius!
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 12, 2024 12:11:54 GMT
I wonder at what point the cast realise it’s a complete turkey? Not only after Press night surely? I mean, there will be be an element of ‘word on the street’ and undoubtedly there will be people connected with the show reading this thread (hiya 👋) but does anyone actually let on that the feedback is terrible? It sounds much more serious than can be rectified by cutting a few bits out. It sounds like it’s fundamentally bad.
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Post by mattnyc on Mar 12, 2024 12:16:45 GMT
Thoughts on the production aside, to say an Ivo Van Hove show using cameras - which he’s done FOR YEARS - is “ripping off Sunset Blvd” is silly. As for why are the cameras there, it’s explained early on and mentioned throughout they’re filming a documentary. That doesn’t explain why cameras are in certain other scenes but anything at or around the theatre is explained at the beginning of the show.
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Post by ladidah on Mar 12, 2024 12:20:09 GMT
I guess the problem is that if another show used the same filming methods and everyone adores it, anything similar that isn't as successful with always looked like a failed copy.
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Post by Being Alive on Mar 12, 2024 12:30:02 GMT
But the point is Ivo did it first so saying he's just copying Sunset is wild - if anything Sunset copied him.
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Post by mrnutz on Mar 12, 2024 12:45:39 GMT
Van Hove had cameras outside the NT for 'Network' in 2017, and I'm sure someone said he'd done it even earlier than that. To say he's copying Sunset is ridiculous.
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Post by simon on Mar 12, 2024 12:47:50 GMT
Spoiler Alert My favourite moment was when Myrtle(SS) attempted to murder Dead Fan (yes) with the lighted standard lamp.Pure theatrical gold!
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Post by mattnyc on Mar 12, 2024 12:58:02 GMT
So after seeing this again last night, my thoughts changed a bit. I was able to see that Sheridan truly is giving a great performance - several scenes here she’s the best I’ve ever seen her.
Some of the music actually kind of “clicked” with me this time and I enjoyed several songs, although they tended to be in the weirder moments of the show. And that’s where I personally think the show is at its best, in those “WHAT??” scenes that are inside Myrtle’s head or where the action around her or directed towards her is intense. When the show shifts to “We are a happy Broadway family let’s all sing a happy song and live the Broadway life”, that’s where the show falls completely flat, for me. Those songs sound like they would have been cut from a 70s musical and tonally don’t fit at all in this show.
I really do respect what they’re trying to do with this show but I just don’t think their goal is ultimately a success. If this were 95-100 minutes straight through with a good 30 minutes cut, then I think they’d have a more streamlined book and score and it could actually make sense. That will never happen obviously, but I really do think this piece would benefit from something like that.
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Post by artstudent231 on Mar 12, 2024 13:44:44 GMT
Van Hove had cameras outside the NT for 'Network' in 2017, and I'm sure someone said he'd done it even earlier than that. To say he's copying Sunset is ridiculous. EXACTLY I said that to so many people in the theatre who were mentioning sunset boulevard. This is what makes it so mind bending to me. He did the going outside years ago and has been using the cameras etc forever so WHY did he employ those again here so soon after sunset boulevard, in a musical, with a similar lead character premise to Sunset? I thought it was going to be him making a point of one-upping Jamie Lloyd but there’s certainly no attempt at that so what is he trying to say? The security guard that guards Sheridan outside is even the exact same one who guarded Tom Francis doing his outside walk in Sunset Boulevard! Can these be coincidences or is he trying to react to the now ubiquitous use of the camera? 🤔
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Post by mattnyc on Mar 12, 2024 13:51:44 GMT
I think that’s smart to snag the same security guard from “Sunset” - he knows the gig already.
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Post by ix on Mar 12, 2024 14:31:03 GMT
Van Hove had cameras outside the NT for 'Network' in 2017, and I'm sure someone said he'd done it even earlier than that. To say he's copying Sunset is ridiculous. I stand corrected, I didn't know that. But it's certainly gives the impression of ripping off Sunset at every turn, which ain't a good look. Sunset used them well. Here, this production hasn't. Not at all.
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Post by gertrudemcfuzz on Mar 12, 2024 15:18:30 GMT
The use of cameras and live feeds has been common on mainstage European theatres for the best part of two decades, and in experimental theatre practices for even longer. It was admittedly used to great effect by Jamie Lloyd in Sunset Boulevard, but it wasn't remotely new. (What was impressive was the clarity of the image, which has more to do with budget than anything else...) That being said, the use of video in Opening Night feels very by the numbers, even for van Hove. A lot of the staging is almost identical to what he did in The Damned, especially the ghost stuff.
But the biggest problem with the work is Rufus Wainwright's songs: lyrically derivative, void of any dramatic meaning or structure, tonally unmoored from the narrative and the drama. The numbers (it's hardly a score) are at odds with the staging, and while one can perhaps get away with it within an opera as Wainwright did with Prima Donna, here it's a disaster. The second act disco number is probably the most weirdly misjudged moment I've ever seen in a commercial West End musical.
Like many have noted above, it's a real puzzle how anybody - least of all a creative team of this calibre - thought this was ready to go into production.
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Post by simon on Mar 12, 2024 16:47:09 GMT
I agree with you on this, particularly your last point about the creative team's judgement. I think a lot of the negativity, disappointment and anger aroused by this show is from a feeling that the audience has been presented with something that is just not good enough in terms of direction, script and music.
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Post by nottobe on Mar 12, 2024 16:59:35 GMT
I went to see this last night and avoided comments online as wanted to go into it as blind as possible. All these reactions are very interesting indeed. To steal a line from Merrily We Roll Along, I sort of enjoyed it.
The staging is basically Van Hove to a tea. If you have seen one of his productions than you have basically seen all of them staging wise. Not that it is a negative. I enjoyed the camera work and the minimal design did not hinder it. Sometimes the cameras feel a bit overly used and I would have liked some more focus on the physical staging of the actors. It would have been better to have gotten a actual playwright as the book writer, rather than Van Hove doing it himself. It feels especially like a story where a female writer would have added a greater depth to the piece. As for the songs, I really enjoyed Rufus Wainwirght's music and scoring as it felt very much inspired by golden age musicals rather than the more modern pop ones but the lyrics let it down. Again I felt like they either needed more depth or just to be more clever lyric wise. The main draw for me was Shira Haas as I think she is a wonderful actress and was very excited to see her onstage. For me she was the highlight of the cast and played the part of Nancy very well with a very impressive voice, even if her soft folk-like voice sometimes felt at odd's with the music choices. I hope we see her onstage a lot in London as she is really terrific as an actor. The rest of the cast were strong but have to say Benjamin Walker did look a bit bored, don't know if he was acting it or not. Sheridan Smith was as you would expect, a very strong performance.
Yes this show is not very good but I enjoyed it somewhat. I think as a piece it would have been more interesting to really focus in on Myrtle as a character as I didn't care about all the side characters. Let's see if it completes it's run in London though.
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Post by mrnutz on Mar 12, 2024 17:59:30 GMT
I'm wondering who thought it was a good idea to turn this into a West End musical in the first place. Maybe we're all being pranked?
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Mar 12, 2024 18:22:12 GMT
I thought that looks quite good!
Full movie is on YouTube.
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Post by mrnutz on Mar 12, 2024 19:11:09 GMT
I'd probably watch it myself - just not sure it's what the Sheridan fans will have in mind. 😂
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Post by stevej678 on Mar 12, 2024 19:54:31 GMT
It was such a strange atmosphere at the interval for this last week.
Some people were furious at what they'd had to endure. Pretty much everyone seemed to he expressing their bewilderment and disappointment. Ushers were talking among themselves about how many people were heading out of the auditorium and taking their coats with them. I can't recall ever experiencing such a collectively underwhelmed audience response before.
Throw in the bizarre antics unfolding on stage and it all made for a thoroughly surreal evening!
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Post by Rory on Mar 12, 2024 20:16:39 GMT
I booked, when it went on sale, for June. I almost can't wait to see it now if it's still on!
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Post by osdtdg on Mar 12, 2024 20:46:59 GMT
I booked when it went on sale for June. I almost can't wait to see it now if it's still on! I did the same! I have to say, I'm watching eagerly to see if my date actually goes forward. Judging by reviews, though, I won't be too disappointed if it doesn't (though I recognise it will hurt for the cast and crew!) as I can see a different show in that time.
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Post by bram on Mar 12, 2024 22:00:12 GMT
Really weird.
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Post by mrbarnaby on Mar 12, 2024 22:53:57 GMT
It was such a strange atmosphere at the interval for this last week. Some people were furious at what they'd had to endure. Pretty much everyone seemed to he expressing their bewilderment and disappointment. Ushers were talking among themselves about how many people were heading out of the auditorium and taking their coats with them. I can't recall ever experiencing such a collectively underwhelmed audience response before. Throw in the bizarre antics unfolding on stage and it all made for a thoroughly surreal evening! Fabulous!!!
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Post by Jon on Mar 13, 2024 4:12:13 GMT
Even if Opening Night gets dreadful reviews and/or closes early, Ivo van Hove will be fine.
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Post by ladidah on Mar 13, 2024 8:01:59 GMT
Can anyone provide a short synopsis of what the musical is about?
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Post by chriss on Mar 13, 2024 8:45:38 GMT
Very confusing story line and no memorable songs. Quite a few people left at the interval.
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