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Post by kathryn on Oct 2, 2019 11:28:35 GMT
I still wonder at what was done onwards from only 2 years post Windows 95. Obv. people made a lot of money from the growing media scare narrative but, still, job.
The rationing thing was light-hearted.
Oddly enough, international investment banks don’t run their core accounting systems on Windows. I was working on systems that had been written in COBOL and PL/1 ten or fifteen years earlier, when people had assumed that they would be replaced by 2000 so they used six-character date fields (hence a calculation of elapsed time between 311299 and 010100 would have gone wrong). But hey, details. Any large organisation will end up running on legacy systems with underlying code that hasn't been touched for years. So it wasn't just international investment banks, it was power stations and airlines and hospitals.... Just this week I've been raising bug tickets for our system because we switched on email validation for a part of the process and then realised the underlying validation coded into the system stipulates that email addresses have to be all lower case - that's how old it is. We're meant to be replacing this system with a whole new one we are building, but the first build doesn't even all the functionality we have in the current system, let alone all the new stuff we want. I've no idea how long it will actually take us to transition to the new system - the project has already been running for a couple of years, the first iteration won't roll out until January according to the current estimate, it was originally meant to be up and running for the first wave of products in July. IT estimates are like builder's estimates - the reality is usually double the time and cost. Poor project management isn't down to incompetence, usually, it's down to the people setting up the project not having all the information the manager needs to work out how to carry it out efficiently. Brexit is practically the dictionary definition for not having all the information you would need. No-one knows what is going to happen - no-one can know what is going to happen. |
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Brexit
Oct 2, 2019 14:23:50 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 14:23:50 GMT
My views on Brexit are pretty well known.
But hopefully there can be some sort of consensus by those who could live with Brexit but don't want a No Deal and those harder Brexiteers who want us to leave but would accept a deal without further delays. But we've had 39 months to try and sort this. It almost needs the EU to perhaps say you have X time otherwise it's a no deal and you are out!
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Post by kathryn on Oct 2, 2019 14:31:45 GMT
The problem is the disaster capitalists want that! That way they can make a quick fortune from the chaos and blame the EU for it.
But yes, the failure of the last 39 months is that the government hasn't even attempted to get loser's consent. What the ref result showed was that the country was fundamentally split, and it remains so.
I could accept a well-organised Brexit that minimised the inherent damage and mitigated the risks. The couldn't-organise-a-piss-up-in-a-brewery level of incompetence that we've actually seen is just....beyond words. I wouldn't trust this lot to feed my imaginary cat, let alone undertake a massive re-structuring of our domestic economy and international socio-political relationships!
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Brexit
Oct 2, 2019 15:18:33 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2019 15:18:33 GMT
The problem is the disaster capitalists want that! That way they can make a quick fortune from the chaos and blame the EU for it. But yes, the failure of the last 39 months is that the government hasn't even attempted to get loser's consent. What the ref result showed was that the country was fundamentally split, and it remains so. I could accept a well-organised Brexit that minimised the inherent damage and mitigated the risks. The couldn't-organise-a-piss-up-in-a-brewery level of incompetence that we've actually seen is just....beyond words. I wouldn't trust this lot to feed my imaginary cat, let alone undertake a massive re-structuring of our domestic economy and international socio-political relationships! Good point about the disaster capitalists. They have money in reserve and if share prices fall they buy on the cheap and sell once the prices rise for a quick profit. |
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Post by Latecomer on Oct 2, 2019 15:53:19 GMT
The problem is the disaster capitalists want that! That way they can make a quick fortune from the chaos and blame the EU for it. But yes, the failure of the last 39 months is that the government hasn't even attempted to get loser's consent. What the ref result showed was that the country was fundamentally split, and it remains so. I could accept a well-organised Brexit that minimised the inherent damage and mitigated the risks. The couldn't-organise-a-piss-up-in-a-brewery level of incompetence that we've actually seen is just....beyond words. I wouldn't trust this lot to feed my imaginary cat, let alone undertake a massive re-structuring of our domestic economy and international socio-political relationships! I would have double liked this if I could!!!! |
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 7:35:52 GMT
Post by londonpostie on Oct 3, 2019 7:35:52 GMT
According to John Curtice this morning, Johnson seems to be establishing a very decent General Election position (based on the referendum and manifesto mandates to Leave): So on the Brixit question Johnson has 50% of the electorate. If you then add to that the £40-£50 billion on nonsense pledges (NHS, schools, etc) - which will have an effect - he's in a good place. In other news I got a call last night from my MP, who has been triggered. She is obv working the phones hard but it's almost impossible to see how she won't be replaced by a Corbyn supporting candidate. What is difficult to know is whether the constituency membership will choose a Leaver or Remainer as our next Corbyn-supporting MP - in the balance, imo. This process is happening across the country now in the Labour Party. My ward meets next week to vote on the trigger.
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 11:39:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 11:39:13 GMT
I could see the Tories looking to field as many Brexit supporting candidates as they can and Labour will probably have a lot of JC centric candidates in place of more centralist ones.
There are about 35 MPs currently classed as independent mainly Tory and Labour so any of them with marginal seats could be very interesting especially if the sitting MP stands as an Independent.
I can see a few informal deals being done where one or two parties stand aside in certain constituencies to allow the main challenger a clear run at the sitting MP. There will be no formal deals but like Tatton in 1997, a local deal was struck.
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Post by Nicholas on Oct 3, 2019 12:08:26 GMT
Johnson’s final offer. [...] Who on earth is this supposed to convince? His supporters. It seems to me that Johnson's whole "thing" is to play the thwarted hero. His plans won't work and are never intended to. They're intended to get shot down by someone that Johnson can then paint as an enemy hell bent on destroying his great vision. Not only are you right, but he's scripting the part right now - anyone who says words don't matter, bear in mind how specific - one could say uncompromising - Johnson's been with his language.
Benn is "surrender". This deal is "compromise". Presumably that makes no-deal "take back control", which he can build up to if needs must. Thwarted hero? Perhaps. If you're an MP called 'uncompromising' because you demand we 'surrender', on the other hand, maybe this thug will force you into signing it, making Johnson not thwarted, but the triumphant leader who never surrendered (at, lest we forget, a "war" he rhetorically started). I think he'd prefer thwarted, mind.
Either way, then, he can call Remainers "surrenderers" (truly terrifying to employ that language) or he can bully them with this rhetoric into making him pass a deal, for fear of being painted as uncompromising at best and surrendering at worst. Either way, his script for the next week will be "Compromise or surrender". The bastard's been setting this up. When the deal doesn't go through - which it probably won't - he'll either go to the electorate claiming that one half of the opposition wants to thwart Brexit and the other to 'surrender' to the EU's demands - or he'll go no-deal, because we tried to compromise, but we'll never surrender.
The worst thing is this'll work. Even as I disagree with "compromise or surrender", I realise how effective it is. If only he'd spent as long writing Seventy Two Virgins.
To Johnson's thuggish leadership, though, we all need to say "humbug".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 12:35:08 GMT
His supporters. It seems to me that Johnson's whole "thing" is to play the thwarted hero. His plans won't work and are never intended to. They're intended to get shot down by someone that Johnson can then paint as an enemy hell bent on destroying his great vision. Not only are you right, but he's scripting the part right now - anyone who says words don't matter, bear in mind how specific - one could say uncompromising - Johnson's been with his language.
Benn is "surrender". This deal is "compromise". Presumably that makes no-deal "take back control", which he can build up to if needs must. Thwarted hero? Perhaps. If you're an MP called 'uncompromising' because you demand we 'surrender', on the other hand, maybe this thug will force you into signing it, making Johnson not thwarted, but the triumphant leader who never surrendered (at, lest we forget, a "war" he rhetorically started). I think he'd prefer thwarted, mind.
Either way, then, he can call Remainers "surrenderers" (truly terrifying to employ that language) or he can bully them with this rhetoric into making him pass a deal, for fear of being painted as uncompromising at best and surrendering at worst. Either way, his script for the next week will be "Compromise or surrender". The bastard's been setting this up. When the deal doesn't go through - which it probably won't - he'll either go to the electorate claiming that one half of the opposition wants to thwart Brexit and the other to 'surrender' to the EU's demands - or he'll go no-deal, because we tried to compromise, but we'll never surrender.
The worst thing is this'll work. Even as I disagree with "compromise or surrender", I realise how effective it is. If only he'd spent as long writing Seventy Two Virgins.
To Johnson's thuggish leadership, though, we all need to say "humbug".
The most laughable part is those who suddenly seem to think that this (much worse than May's) deal is somehow amazing. Do they really not think that people will notice that they said one thing and are now saying the opposite? The DUP don't want a hard border but now think it's okay? The ERG fine with an open border with Europe?
They are panicking, there is a slim chance that a majority of MPs will acquiesce in that panic but, at least up until now, there have been enough rational voices to stop any disaster. If anyone in Labour/Lib Dems/Nationalists/Greens vote for this, they will own it. That's why Corbyn has just become tougher on his own MPs, if people like Kinnock, Nandy, Smeeth etc. vote it through, they will be known as the party that let Brexit happen.
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1,210 posts
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 12:54:01 GMT
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Post by musicalmarge on Oct 3, 2019 12:54:01 GMT
Why on Earth is this chat on a theatre board? How it affects the arts?
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Post by n1david on Oct 3, 2019 12:59:29 GMT
Why on Earth is this chat on a theatre board? How it affects the arts? Because it's in the section "General Chat", which means "anything that doesn't fit in to any of the other categories." That's why discussion of TV programmes, films, politics, weather, food, moods, etc. takes place here. The description on the menu page says "You can talk about anything here." |
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Post by Nicholas on Oct 3, 2019 13:25:58 GMT
Why on Earth is this chat on a theatre board? How it affects the arts? Whether in or out of Europe, we will always need to be building – and repairing – bridges. Sometimes the arts can be the only way a connection can be made across turbulent waters. www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/jun/24/arts-hit-back-at-brexit-i-feel-nothing-but-rage
Ivo van Hove: Europe has always been a source of energy for my theatre company. I don’t think, being Belgian, I should stick to my own country. My identity comes from much more than that. English theatre has opened itself up to Europe and to the world: I’m an example of that, I’ve had the opportunity to work at the Young Vic and the National.
ROH: the Royal Opera, the Royal Ballet and the Orchestra of the Royal Opera House are internationally renowned, employing hundreds of artists from across the world, including many from within the EU. Opera and Ballet are both art forms with a truly global audience, rooted in European culture, and a vital part of the UK’s artistic life. We will work our hardest to ensure that our ability to enrich people’s lives through these wonderful art forms is sustained.
Rufus Norris: Our continued success depends on the free exchange of ideas, talent and creativity, and we remain committed to increasing our collaboration with friends and colleagues across the UK, Europe and around the world. After this referendum and the divisions it has highlighted, it is essential that the arts work even harder to give voice to all parts within our society. We must be fearless in using the arts as a crucible in which we come to understand who we are as individuals, as communities and as a nation.
David Lan: whatever happens, we shouldn’t accept another lie: that the cultural and artistic life of this country ever has been or ever could be separate from Europe. We’re not twins. We’re not even conjoined twins. We’re one body expressing one momentous idea about the potential of every human being to achieve individuality as part of a collective.
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1,863 posts
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 13:27:19 GMT
Post by NeilVHughes on Oct 3, 2019 13:27:19 GMT
To understand why the Johnson Deal had to trample all over the EU red lines making it impossible for the EU to accept is to understand what could happen once the Bill comes before Parliament.
If approved by the EU an amendment will be raised requiring the Deal to be put to the Country in a referendum alongside remain during the Parliamentary approval process. (Kyle / Wilson)
The belief is that there is enough support in Parliament to support Johnson’s Deal with the amendment this time as Labour/SNP/LibDem and remain Conservatives would vote for for it.
This has the advantage to his detractors that Johnson and Co would potentially have to vote for a referendum to make sure it passes with the bonus the Johnson Government would limp along, completely impotent until after the referendum.
Therefore Johnson’s Deal had to be unacceptable to the EU, his only way forward to continue with his narrative leaving the EU was stopped by the EU and a complicit Parliament.
The machinations continue and we sit with baited breath to see if the EU reject the Deal which is the likely outcome and how Johnson gets around or agrees to the requirement to ask for an Extension as per the Benn-Act
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Post by olliebean on Oct 3, 2019 14:21:35 GMT
His supporters. It seems to me that Johnson's whole "thing" is to play the thwarted hero. His plans won't work and are never intended to. They're intended to get shot down by someone that Johnson can then paint as an enemy hell bent on destroying his great vision. Not only are you right, but he's scripting the part right now - anyone who says words don't matter, bear in mind how specific - one could say uncompromising - Johnson's been with his language.
Benn is "surrender". This deal is "compromise". Presumably that makes no-deal "take back control", which he can build up to if needs must. Thwarted hero? Perhaps. If you're an MP called 'uncompromising' because you demand we 'surrender', on the other hand, maybe this thug will force you into signing it, making Johnson not thwarted, but the triumphant leader who never surrendered (at, lest we forget, a "war" he rhetorically started). I think he'd prefer thwarted, mind.
Either way, then, he can call Remainers "surrenderers" (truly terrifying to employ that language) or he can bully them with this rhetoric into making him pass a deal, for fear of being painted as uncompromising at best and surrendering at worst. Either way, his script for the next week will be "Compromise or surrender". The bastard's been setting this up. When the deal doesn't go through - which it probably won't - he'll either go to the electorate claiming that one half of the opposition wants to thwart Brexit and the other to 'surrender' to the EU's demands - or he'll go no-deal, because we tried to compromise, but we'll never surrender.
The worst thing is this'll work. Even as I disagree with "compromise or surrender", I realise how effective it is. If only he'd spent as long writing Seventy Two Virgins.
To Johnson's thuggish leadership, though, we all need to say "humbug".
Not to mention the accusations of "collusion" which appear to have been completely fabricated - but presented in the press as fact, and will be accepted as such by many. |
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 16:52:35 GMT
Post by Deal J on Oct 3, 2019 16:52:35 GMT
[…] The description on the menu page says "You can talk about anything here.” Don’t tell Seyi Omooba, she’ll be all over it! |
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2,340 posts
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 17:00:16 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Oct 3, 2019 17:00:16 GMT
My husband worked for 2 years at his company to identify and plan and lead a team implementing changes to their code for year 2000 (shop audit world-wide company). He knew what he had to do, as it was a simple case of changing the date format, and his whole team finished on time, meaning the data processing on huge mainframes continued. If he hadn’t done it THE DATA WOULD HAVE GONE WRONG. The government had a publicity campaign (we all remember the millennium bug?) and companies were clearly told what to do. Current situation - no-one (Including the government) knows what is happening 30 days from possible biggest trading change in 40 years. Good luck with that.... I get really angry when people say nothing happened at Y2K ....that’s because they got it right. It is a fact that if a programme had dates in old format it would have failed. A fact. Indisputable. Not some sort of weird myth! Didn't Italy spend a combined £7.5k on Y2K and nothing went wrong? |
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 17:02:57 GMT
Post by theglenbucklaird on Oct 3, 2019 17:02:57 GMT
I could see the Tories looking to field as many Brexit supporting candidates as they can and Labour will probably have a lot of JC centric candidates in place of more centralist ones. There are about 35 MPs currently classed as independent mainly Tory and Labour so any of them with marginal seats could be very interesting especially if the sitting MP stands as an Independent. I can see a few informal deals being done where one or two parties stand aside in certain constituencies to allow the main challenger a clear run at the sitting MP. There will be no formal deals but like Tatton in 1997, a local deal was struck. Does that work? |
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 17:21:32 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 3, 2019 17:21:32 GMT
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 17:37:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 17:37:36 GMT
Why on Earth is this chat on a theatre board? How it affects the arts? Why can't you just ignore the thread if you're not interested (though you should be) and let the rest of us debate as we have been doing? |
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Post by lynette on Oct 3, 2019 18:37:16 GMT
Frankly, this discussion thread is a lot more civilised and dare I say, intelligent, than the discussions in other places, notably the House of Commons.
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Post by kathryn on Oct 3, 2019 19:21:21 GMT
My husband worked for 2 years at his company to identify and plan and lead a team implementing changes to their code for year 2000 (shop audit world-wide company). He knew what he had to do, as it was a simple case of changing the date format, and his whole team finished on time, meaning the data processing on huge mainframes continued. If he hadn’t done it THE DATA WOULD HAVE GONE WRONG. The government had a publicity campaign (we all remember the millennium bug?) and companies were clearly told what to do. Current situation - no-one (Including the government) knows what is happening 30 days from possible biggest trading change in 40 years. Good luck with that.... I get really angry when people say nothing happened at Y2K ....that’s because they got it right. It is a fact that if a programme had dates in old format it would have failed. A fact. Indisputable. Not some sort of weird myth! Didn't Italy spend a combined £7.5k on Y2K and nothing went wrong? For the benefit of those who won’t click through to the article, no: |
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754 posts
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 21:45:59 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 3, 2019 21:45:59 GMT
So, latest theory....I hope I’m wrong and I’m sure politicians will have thought of it.....Johnson puts his “deal” to parliament. They vote for it.(like the daft Kyle thing sometime back) This means he doesn’t have to ask for extension via letter (Benn bill) as parliament have voted for a deal. Obviously the EU will not agree to this mishmash of dangerous ideas.....so we crash out with no deal? Or end up with a no deal or revoke vote at the last moment? Can I hibernate and then just wake up when all the scheming has finished? I find it soooo depressing.  |
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Post by olliebean on Oct 3, 2019 23:00:29 GMT
Doesn't the Benn bill kick in if he fails to get a deal accepted by Parliament and the EU? Bit of a huge flippin' oversight, if not!
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Brexit
Oct 3, 2019 23:09:24 GMT
Post by Phantom of London on Oct 3, 2019 23:09:24 GMT
Why on Earth is this chat on a theatre board? How it affects the arts? Didn’t you know we are leaving on the 31st October. |
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754 posts
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Brexit
Oct 4, 2019 7:31:36 GMT
Post by Latecomer on Oct 4, 2019 7:31:36 GMT
Doesn't the Benn bill kick in if he fails to get a deal accepted by Parliament and the EU? Bit of a huge flippin' oversight, if not! I think you are right. Apologies for the alarm.... I begin to suspect all sorts of weird and wonderful plans. Just need to remember, I think, that Johnson pretends he has some cunning plan to get round the “ask for an extension letter” as wants to bounce the opposition into giving him an election/replacing him before Oct 31st so he can claim “it wasn’t me, gov” . The EU also seem wise to his tactic and have not rejected his deal outright but are saying “we keep talking” even thought it is blatantly a C- (or F) piece of homework! |
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