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Post by usbuzzer on Sept 15, 2023 14:10:27 GMT
I see certain people are looking down on British creatives as usual. Actually every criticism I have of this show I have of Next to Normal which isn't British. If the creatives behind both had spent more time writing decent material instead of trying to manipulate the audience with cheap parlour tricks, both shows would be much better off. I actually think there is a great show in this one somewhere and being overly positive about something that really isn't very good doesn't help anyone. What are the examples of shows which are not manipulating the audience emotionally, but still achieve the emotional impact? Genuine question as I believe Next to Normal is superior to TLBT in terms of the script, cleverness and emotions and can't really think of a better musical drama. |
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Post by max on Sept 15, 2023 14:24:56 GMT
Good to see the appreciation for Amy Trigg. I remember seeing her in graduate shows at Mountview where she was on the Musical Theatre course - the first wheelchair user to graduate from a performance course at Mountview.
If she's new to you...
She's also a writer, and was joint winner of the inaugural Women's Prize for Play Writing, and has been developing broadcast writing skills as part of the BBC Writersroom 'TV Drama Writers' scheme, and developing scripts for Radio Drama.
Her first play / one woman show 'Reasons You Should(nt) Love Me.' was acclaimed at The Kiln.
So new fans are going to see and hear lots more from her.
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Post by anthony40 on Sept 15, 2023 14:29:56 GMT
She was also in the second Mamma Mia! film in the Waterloo sequence.
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Post by intoanewlife on Sept 15, 2023 14:47:38 GMT
Actually every criticism I have of this show I have of Next to Normal which isn't British. If the creatives behind both had spent more time writing decent material instead of trying to manipulate the audience with cheap parlour tricks, both shows would be much better off. I actually think there is a great show in this one somewhere and being overly positive about something that really isn't very good doesn't help anyone. What are the examples of shows which are not manipulating the audience emotionally, but still achieve the emotional impact? Genuine question as I believe Next to Normal is superior to TLBT in terms of the script, cleverness and emotions and can't really think of a better musical drama. Any of the good ones...just tell me the story WELL, don't tell me how I should feel about it with cheesy manipulations. NTN is superior to this without question, but it too suffered from a very generic score and some odd writing/directorial choices. In both shows I felt I knew more about how the family was feeling, as opposed to the actual person the show is about. Both shows need some decent dialogue scenes which let us know how these people were feeling beyond their actions or appearance. I mean why is the sons story done the way it is in NTN instead of just telling us what happened. Why is he a teenager who simply MUST have a generic 'rock' score? Has she done this 'his' whole life? If so why? That is not a symptom of depression or bi-polar, so what else is wrong with her? I think the stories of both shows are strong enough and speak for themselves, but instead of decent dialogue scenes, we get endless exposition about stuff that isn't even important or in NTN we get the reactions of those around her. I mean was Henry's biggest struggle really that he couldn't let his old self go as that is literally all I got from him. Instead of seeing anything that went into his swift 'recovery' (apart from a quippy doctor) which must've been extremely difficult, we see his brothers or his family doing random stuff. We see nothing of him becoming an artist, but we see his mother go out and get drunk on Monopoly night. It tries way too hard to please the crowd, instead of simply telling us the story which would've been way more emotional. |
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Post by robertb213 on Sept 15, 2023 16:35:15 GMT
In fairness, I think one of the aims of TLBT is that Henry Fraser wanted to show what the family went through following the accident and how their actions helped him, which is probably why the focus is often on them more than Henry himself.
I will say that the hyperbolic bloggers really need to calm down on their OTT gushing, this was a lovely warm-hearted show but it's certainly not the life-changing earth-shattering masterpiece some are making it out to be!
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Post by alece10 on Sept 15, 2023 17:19:03 GMT
ITV London news just had a nice little feature about the show with an interview with Henry and couple of very short clips from the musical. The presenter introduced it as a stage play but later said it was a musical.
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Post by westendfan1 on Sept 15, 2023 20:50:37 GMT
Isn't it interesting how a quick flick through this thread would make you think there was a pretty even split between those who loved this show and those who really didn't? Yet if you look at the star ratings, 32 have rated it 4 or 5 stars (with 19 5 stars!), 10 have given it a middling 3 stars, and a mere 3 have rated it 1 or 2 stars. Perhaps those who hated it shout louder?
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Post by shownut on Sept 15, 2023 20:57:21 GMT
Perhaps.
And maybe because some of us bought tickets based on the raves here and found it was not a good show, we have a lot to say about it?
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Post by ThereWillBeSun on Sept 15, 2023 21:23:30 GMT
Good to see the appreciation for Amy Trigg. I remember seeing her in graduate shows at Mountview where she was on the Musical Theatre course - the first wheelchair user to graduate from a performance course at Mountview. If she's new to you... She's also a writer, and was joint winner of the inaugural Women's Prize for Play Writing, and has been developing broadcast writing skills as part of the BBC Writersroom 'TV Drama Writers' scheme, and developing scripts for Radio Drama. Her first play / one woman show 'Reasons You Should(nt) Love Me.' was acclaimed at The Kiln. So new fans are going to see and hear lots more from her. I saw Amy in the RSC Shrew at the Barbican, then a live stream of her one woman show... then Medea. She is brilliant to watch and a talent. Hope she continues to thrive. Happy for her. |
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Post by gmoneyoutlaw on Sept 15, 2023 21:45:39 GMT
Perhaps. And maybe because some of us bought tickets based on the raves here and found it was not a good show, we have a lot to say about it? I always want to experience it for myself. I love both popular shows and those more challenging |
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Post by mattnyc on Sept 15, 2023 23:19:20 GMT
Been a long time since I cried like that at a show. I'll write more thoughts tomorrow but tonight I'm just mad I can only give it 5 stars up above. It should have at least a 6 option.
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Post by shownut on Sept 16, 2023 7:31:07 GMT
Perhaps. And maybe because some of us bought tickets based on the raves here and found it was not a good show, we have a lot to say about it? I always want to experience it for myself. I love both popular shows and those more challenging Totally agree, which I is why I bought a ticket. This is/was certainly popular but was far from challenging in a good way. :-) |
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Post by BVM on Sept 16, 2023 8:12:52 GMT
Isn't it interesting how a quick flick through this thread would make you think there was a pretty even split between those who loved this show and those who really didn't? Yet if you look at the star ratings, 32 have rated it 4 or 5 stars (with 19 5 stars!), 10 have given it a middling 3 stars, and a mere 3 have rated it 1 or 2 stars. Perhaps those who hated it shout louder? It is interesting and that’s why the polls are so wonderful. As it’s one member one vote they give you the actual stats of what the forum as a whole thought of it. Reading the comments can indeed give you the wrong impression. And it’s always a lesser one. For unknown reasons some people who don’t like certain musicals feel the need to tell us time and time again (literally don’t understand why it fascinates them so much. For shows I see and hate I usually post once, maybe twice if someone replies to me, then hardly ever go on that thread again as I am simply not interested 🤷🏻♂️). |
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Post by shownut on Sept 16, 2023 9:31:53 GMT
Isn't it interesting how a quick flick through this thread would make you think there was a pretty even split between those who loved this show and those who really didn't? Yet if you look at the star ratings, 32 have rated it 4 or 5 stars (with 19 5 stars!), 10 have given it a middling 3 stars, and a mere 3 have rated it 1 or 2 stars. Perhaps those who hated it shout louder? It is interesting and that’s why the polls are so wonderful. As it’s one member one vote they give you the actual stats of what the forum as a whole thought of it. Reading the comments can indeed give you the wrong impression. And it’s always a lesser one. For unknown reasons some people who don’t like certain musicals feel the need to tell us time and time again (literally don’t understand why it fascinates them so much. For shows I see and hate I usually post once, maybe twice if someone replies to me, then hardly ever go on that thread again as I am simply not interested 🤷🏻♂️). In all fairness, and as your post appears targeted to me and a few others, while we may harp on (too much for your liking) about a show we didn't care for, we also will write as much, if not more, about shows we DO like or those we have an interest in. It wouldn't be a chat room without the "chat". Take it as passion for an artform we care a lot about, both the good and the bad. |
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Post by BVM on Sept 16, 2023 10:09:12 GMT
It is interesting and that’s why the polls are so wonderful. As it’s one member one vote they give you the actual stats of what the forum as a whole thought of it. Reading the comments can indeed give you the wrong impression. And it’s always a lesser one. For unknown reasons some people who don’t like certain musicals feel the need to tell us time and time again (literally don’t understand why it fascinates them so much. For shows I see and hate I usually post once, maybe twice if someone replies to me, then hardly ever go on that thread again as I am simply not interested 🤷🏻♂️). In all fairness, and as your post appears targeted to me and a few others, while we may harp on (too much for your liking) about a show we didn't care for, we also will write as much, if not more, about shows we DO like or those we have an interest in. It wouldn't be a chat room without the "chat". Take it as passion for an artform we care a lot about, both the good and the bad. Thanks for your reply. No not aimed at you specifically. Not aimed at this thread particularly either really - it's something I observe on the forum in general an awful lot. Just happens that currently it's here. The passion for the art form is the usual answer when you ask the people that hate a show why they keep posting. I kinda get that. But then all of us here have that. In a thread with 36 4/5 star posts and 3 1/2 star you might therefore expect the comments liking and disliking the show to be in the ratio 36:3. But they are not! In general terms the people that hate a show are likely to outpost the ones that love it by quite some margin. And that is what I find odd, passion for theatre or not. If you give something 3 stars I guess lots of good and bad leading to interesting posts. 2 stars - stuff to talk about I guess, sone redeeming features. But 1 star, you hated it - again fair enough, interesting to hear why once. But repeating this over and over without adding anything?! To be honest, beyond TBLT I really noticed the phenomenon on ALW threads. I reckon anyone, anywhere on this forum whenever the topic comes up think most people hate Cinderella. But I just had a look on the thread and by far the biggest star ratings were 3 and 4. So overall the forum found it a 3.5 star show. But read the thread and my God it's the same 1 star people posting over and over and over again about how s**t it is; like an obsession. That is weird. Of course it's a discussion board so nobody should be stopped from posting - buy IMHO these posts do nothing to move the conversation on, aren't interesting and some people (not you) really come across as absolutely loving to hate a show. Why! (It is with trepidation that I mention it again but when Phantom re-started post Covid, of course those of us that liked it in general but also had critiques were shouted down time and again by the same 4 very loud people basically telling us we were wrong and it was terrible - 2 of whom hadn't even seen it. Was SUCH a negative thread. But the star rating actually showed that the board as a whole really liked it! #HatersGonnaHate I guess IDK) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2023 10:34:33 GMT
But repeating this over and over without adding anything?! As someone who facilitates a lot of meetings, I am always intrigued at how much of this is present with online chat boards. In-person discussions are a different medium of course, but when the same person reiterates the same point, we're trained to ask: "Are there any new perspectives that people would like to share?" But in online chats, I don't think many people even consider (or perhaps care) if their contribution moves a discussion along or adds something new. How well-received or appropriate that is obviously can vary greatly.
And of course some people have a desire to "win" the conversation, a motivation I've never fully grasped in that no real prize is going to be awarded if they do. But maybe they feel some sense of affirmation if they are able to bend others to share their opinion about a particular production or performer.
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Post by intoanewlife on Sept 16, 2023 11:57:03 GMT
It's not really that deep.
New people come into the thread and ask questions that've already been discussed, but they haven't read the entire 10 pages. Rather than being rude and telling them to read the whole thread, people just repeat their thoughts and often by that time other things have popped into their heads as well.
This is a discussion board, where people also write reviews, but it is a discussion board which means it is always going to have good and bad comments. If you can't deal with that, maybe discussion boards are not for you.
Constructive negative discussion is just as important as positive, especially when the show is new and will probably go through further changes during its lifecycle.
I don't see how leaving a positive review and then sticking around to gush with everyone who agrees with you is any different to the people who didn't like it and are having that side of the discussion.
At least we are telling people what we didn't like about it as opposed to just writing 'it's crap' and leaving the thread feeling superior because they aren't thread crapping.
I don't care if people agree with me nor do I expect anyone too nor do I expect to change their minds. We all like different things. But as many of us have the exact same problems with the show, maybe we could be onto something and why are we not allowed to discuss those things?
As someone who enjoyed immensely other shows by the creatives involved in this this feels like a major misstep, but as I have already said I think there is a great show in here somewhere (much like Tammy Faye) which is why I will continue to be interested in the show and what may or may not happen to it in the future.
If you would like a 5,000 word essay about why 'insert name' is the greatest piece of musical theatre in existence, I will gladly whip one up for you.
But as none of those shows are currently playing in London that'd be pretty pointless.
Lastly, I don't think any one of us going into a theatre expecting to hate something. We all go in with the hope of being blown away and having a magical experience.
Most people want everything they see to be great and then have the joy of sharing that with as many people as possible. So when that doesn't happen our disappointment is usually what is fuelling the negativity other than some sort of vendetta against the show.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2023 13:32:33 GMT
It's not really that deep. Congrats. You win.  |
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Post by intoanewlife on Sept 16, 2023 13:42:48 GMT
It's not really that deep. Congrats. You win. Touche! |
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Post by robertb213 on Sept 16, 2023 14:25:35 GMT
This is much better, a proper dialogue with reasoned viewpoints. Great points on both sides 👍
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Post by dontdreamit on Sept 16, 2023 15:33:19 GMT
I’m in tonight, am looking forward to seeing it after all the debate on here 🙂
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Post by TheatreTwittic on Sept 16, 2023 17:27:33 GMT
I saw this this afternoon. To be this is a fine example of what theatre should be. Putting real people on a stage, for people to watch, resonate, experience.
The music I think perfectly matches up with what Henry's Spotify playlist while have been at the time - varied but equally firmly rooted in pop.
I would argue the show follows all the strong aspects of a good musical while also keeping the bone structures of a good play too.
To say the large critics walked away giving it two or three stars, while ALW's Cinders got 4s and 5s is very interesting to me but here we are.
An incredibly strong show and one I hope people get behind or at the very least give it breathing space to find its audience. Becuase it deserves one.
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Post by robertb213 on Sept 16, 2023 17:47:45 GMT
I went with 4 stars. There are definite improvements that could be made, but the huge sense of positivity and joy made it deserving.
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Post by ruperto on Sept 16, 2023 17:48:23 GMT
Just back from the matinee - what a great show. Felt like a real crowdpleasing hit - packed audience, lots of laughs, some big banging tunes, some flying, and a LOT of people with “something in their eye”.
Some of the random things I liked about this were the fact that they’d whacked up the volume on the band - a clear and punchy sound, like being at a gig where the sound system is actually decent; the way this played to all four sides of the auditorium really effectively; and the way the writer really knows how to use swearing effectively for maximum dramatic impact and laughs - unlike so many plays that are unnecessarily overloaded with pointless swearing.
Strong performances throughout but an absolutely stonking one from Amy Trigg - she had the audience absolutely in the palm of her hand whenever she was on.
I just hope they’ve done or are doing something about the poster for the show - they really need to zhoosh that up!
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Post by nycdv on Sept 16, 2023 18:40:05 GMT
In general, where are we preferring to sit for this? Will be my first time in Soho Place.
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