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Post by blamerobots on Jun 10, 2024 0:35:06 GMT
The appearance of bars doesn't help at a glance, with the 1st and 2nd and 3rd rankings and so on.
Like, 9 people have given it 4 stars and up but 6 people have given it 1 star. But at a glance, it sure seems split down the middle, right?
In the ideal world, it should be displayed as an average star rating, like Letterboxd for films, etc.
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Post by ceebee on Jun 10, 2024 6:07:13 GMT
All I can say (without triggering the inevitable 'people are entitled to their own views' debate) is that any fool can see this is most definitely NOT a one star show. Just for the lighting design, sound, orchestrations it is a minimum of three. Then you factor in the hard working disciplined cast. Then the standouts - Greaseball, Electra, Hydrogen, Slick, Rusty, Momma, the two scooter dudes doing flips and stunts and turning 90 degrees in a matter of seconds. I rewatched my videos of the bows and had to pinch myself that this was the second preview. To sound like an old fart, this is a cast of largely young grads. If they are the future then it is extraordinarily bright.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 10, 2024 6:19:27 GMT
If a small number of people are giving one star without seeing the show in order to wind people up then I’m afraid going on about it is just feeding the trolls. Just ignore them.
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Post by blamerobots on Jun 10, 2024 6:19:28 GMT
All I can say (without triggering the inevitable 'people are entitled to their own views' debate) is that any fool can see this is most definitely NOT a one star show. Just for the lighting design, sound, orchestrations it is a minimum of three. Then you factor in the hard working disciplined cast. Then the standouts - Greaseball, Electra, Hydrogen, Slick, Rusty, Momma, the two scooter dudes doing flips and stunts and turning 90 degrees in a matter of seconds. I rematches my videos of the bows and had to pinch myself that this was the second preview. To sound like an old fart, this is a cast of largely young grads. If they are the future then it is extraordinarily bright. I wholeheartedly agree, which is why I tend to dislike the star rating system because it's so much of an abstraction that you lose reason "why" it's 1 star or 5 stars. I'd place much more value in someone saying WHY it justified that 1 star or 5 stars. Or at least saying "I was attacked by a rabid 14 year old teen on the train" or "The cast of Starlight Express beat me up in a sidestreet and stole my Oyster card" to explain why you hate the funny train musical so much. |
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Post by ceebee on Jun 10, 2024 8:23:49 GMT
Could I ask, what is the sound design like? Obviously they've thrown technology at it. Always found the sound at the Troubadour for Newsies pretty abysmal as it was never built as a theatrical space. Have they fixed that and can you hear everything clearly? They seem to, yes. There are alit of speakers - one is like a fan of speakers above the circular part of the stage, them there are more to the sides of the stage and then there are more spanning at the top rear of the theatre. The sound design is surround, so you hear different things depending on where you are sat (e.g. effects, whoever is leading vocal at that point gets louder as they pass by you or closer to you). I'm not a sound technician but it seems like they have created an envelope of sound so you get consistent quality throughout. I may be wrong as I was sat near the front - it might be a totally different experience further back. I enjoyed it hugely but a friend further back enjoyed it less so and talking to one or two people their experience if the show was mixed. |
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Post by ceebee on Jun 10, 2024 8:26:12 GMT
It sounds like a great production. I’d love to take my (small) nephew. Where’s the best place to sit where he won’t get a huge adult in front of him and he’ll see all the action up close? Thanks to Front row of any section or anywhere in the pit section at the front as it is sunk lower than track level. Trackside front tow where I sat is great but you are 3-4 metres above track level at the highest point. |
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Post by blamerobots on Jun 10, 2024 8:51:35 GMT
Could I ask, what is the sound design like? Obviously they've thrown technology at it. Always found the sound at the Troubadour for Newsies pretty abysmal as it was never built as a theatrical space. Have they fixed that and can you hear everything clearly? They seem to, yes. There are alit of speakers - one is like a fan of speakers above the circular part of the stage, them there are more to the sides of the stage and then there are more spanning at the top rear of the theatre. The sound design is surround, so you hear different things depending on where you are sat (e.g. effects, whoever is leading vocal at that point gets louder as they pass by you or closer to you). I'm not a sound technician but it seems like they have created an envelope of sound so you get consistent quality throughout. I may be wrong as I was sat near the front - it might be a totally different experience further back. I enjoyed it hugely but a friend further back enjoyed it less so and talking to one or two people their experience if the show was mixed. These days you get radio sound tech that can track like automated follow spots, so that's probably what's going on there. I wonder what's going on overhead. When I go I might ask about. |
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Post by viserys on Jun 10, 2024 9:20:33 GMT
This might be harder work than simply installing a poll on top, but could it be a solution to say that:
People write a short review (say 100 words minimum) and include how many stars they would give a show based on that and then only admin can add that opinion to the poll?
It's really sad that a few trolls upend what's a really interesting short overview on general opinion of a show and it really seems to afflict ALW musicals disproportionately.
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 10, 2024 9:35:41 GMT
This might be harder work than simply installing a poll on top, but could it be a solution to say that: People write a short review (say 100 words minimum) and include how many stars they would give a show based on that and then only admin can add that opinion to the poll? It's really sad that a few trolls upend what's a really interesting short overview on general opinion of a show and it really seems to afflict ALW musicals disproportionately. Wouldn’t be possible technically. Staff only have one vote and can’t vote on other members behalf. |
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Post by ceebee on Jun 10, 2024 9:38:58 GMT
The same happened with Sunset - got trolled into the ground at first by folk desperate to see it fail. Many Oliviers later....
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Post by blamerobots on Jun 10, 2024 9:52:19 GMT
Is there any other way to display the poll results? Like showing an average or a pie chart?
I know it's dire, but maybe polls are going out of vogue if people can't be trusted..!
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Post by anita on Jun 10, 2024 10:00:13 GMT
On the video the colours look rather dull - but that might just be the film. Going Thursday. Loved both versions at Apollo Victoria but film looks like I may regret it
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Post by BVM on Jun 10, 2024 10:02:34 GMT
This might be harder work than simply installing a poll on top, but could it be a solution to say that: People write a short review (say 100 words minimum) and include how many stars they would give a show based on that and then only admin can add that opinion to the poll? It's really sad that a few trolls upend what's a really interesting short overview on general opinion of a show and it really seems to afflict ALW musicals disproportionately. I 100% agree with you. It's farcical really. But we've seen it so many times on ALW shows that at least now all the genuine posters here are aware that whilst there might be the odd backed up 1 star, the majority is just sad trolling. However the great thing about the polls are that they are a genuine one person one vote thing - so as they grow and grow and we have 100, 200, 300 votes for this, it does give you an amazing democratic overview of what the forum thinks. Let's have another look in a few more weeks when voting will be vast majority people who have actually been :-) |
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Post by BVM on Jun 10, 2024 10:08:54 GMT
The same happened with Sunset - got trolled into the ground at first by folk desperate to see it fail. Many Oliviers later.... Gosh it really did didn't it. The anti ALW/anti JL set were out in force for the opening couple of shows! Exactly as you say, desperate for it to fail. (I can honestly never understand why anyone is ever desperate for anything to fail - anything that brings any audience joy is deserving). |
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Post by BurlyBeaR on Jun 10, 2024 10:17:29 GMT
Is there any other way to display the poll results? Like showing an average or a pie chart? I know it's dire, but maybe polls are going out of vogue if people can't be trusted..! No, it is what it is I’m afraid. |
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Post by mkb on Jun 10, 2024 10:39:37 GMT
The same happened with Sunset - got trolled into the ground at first by folk desperate to see it fail. Many Oliviers later.... Gosh it really did didn't it. The anti ALW/anti JL set were out in force for the opening couple of shows! Exactly as you say, desperate for it to fail. (I can honestly never understand why anyone is ever desperate for anything to fail - anything that brings any audience joy is deserving). That's not what happened. Go back and read the negative reviews in the Sunset thread and you'll see they're pretty much all from fans of the show previously with no axe to grind about Lloyd Webber. For my part, I rate as I find, putting aside my opinions about ALW, and based on a combination of quality and how entertained I was. So: Cinderella: 5*, JL's Sunset: 1*, this Starlight: 3*. When I get more time, I'll post some thoughts to back up the three stars. Disappointingly, this past weekend (starting Thursday) has seen a succession of three-star experiences, from the Suite in Three Keys Double Bill, to Mean Girls, Boys from the Blackstuff, and Kiss Me Kate. |
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Post by theatrefan62 on Jun 10, 2024 10:42:43 GMT
But on the flip side you get the 'you're wrong' or 'you didn't understand it' from the fans. That happened with sunset too, and can also be seen here with the 'it won awards' comments. That doesn't prove anything or invalidate people's opinion. Awards are just a collective of people's opinions at the end of the day.
The raving fans can be just as bad as the negative trolls
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Post by ceebee on Jun 10, 2024 10:48:17 GMT
On the video the colours look rather dull - but that might just be the film. Going Thursday. Loved both versions at Apollo Victoria but film looks like I may regret it I'm happy to share my vids of the bows and the set beforehand - trust me, you haven't seen colour until you see this show. It makes Joseph look like he has a Technicolor Drabcoat by comparison. The lighting and costumes in this new version are so vibrant. Only one costume is questionable for colour choices and that is because it is a mix or metallic orange and blue and looks very much like a large human Irn Bru can. If the video you have seen is the one with somebody singing along tunelessly with the megamix, then it really does not do the show justice at all. The vids I took were above the stage and capture the expanse of the set, screen, led tracks above and below, lighting and speaker rig, the whole track through to the stalls and the entry points. Take my word for it, when you enter the building, there is already a bit of a wow factor to the bar area which is really well themed. When you enter the theatre itself, it really is a sight to behold. It is exciting, interesting, and fills you with anticipation about what is going to unfold in front of you (and half of what happens you would never guess and I'm not giving any spoilers but there is literally a surprise every other minute in this show as well as moments of simple beauty). I must admit I got choked up midway through the second half when it hit me how much of a privilege it was to share the moment with my daughters. One day, perhaps, they will do the same. Finally, I would like to offer a big shout out to the staff at the theatre, all of whom are possibly the friendliest people you will meet in a theatre. None of that west-end stuffiness and starchiness. The staff want you to have a great time and nothing was too much trouble - from ice in drinks to where to sit, there was less of the weirdness you can get in some theatres and a much more welcoming group of friendly smiley people. Also, it was great that our front of house person made it very clear about the use of cameras: "If you are spotted filming or recording any part of the show, you will be asked to leave the theatre." I welcome this approach which has happened in a couple of places recently, and makes it crystal clear that there is a consequence to covert filming. Guess what? I didn't see any cameras/phones until the bows. |
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Post by singingbird on Jun 10, 2024 11:01:07 GMT
I'm seeing this in a few weeks time, but all this chatter has got me thinking a lot about Starlight Express. Like lots of people on this board, it was the show that really got me into theatre, way back in 1984. I enjoyed it so much, my parents bought me the double LP OLC at the merch stand as we left the theatre (which was really unusual for them... my mum's standard response to me wanting a record, even an LP, was 'can't you tape it off the radio?'!) Anyway, I played the album to death and, as a consequence, my impression of the show became formed by what was included on the record rather than what was on stage. I never went back to see the show until a few weeks before it finally closed in the early 2000s, by which time it had obviously changed a lot.
I'm really interested to hear from anyone who can compare better than I can what is on the OLC and what was presented on stage back in '84. Obviously it was edited down to fit the 90 or so minutes you can fit on two vinyl records. It says that it was recorded live in the theatre but this can't be true. Apart from anything else, you couldn't get a studio quality recording done live back then from a show with the singers moving that much. At the very least, you'd need so much post-production that it just wouldn't make practical sense. But there are no studios, or even any musicians, listed in the credits. All you get is an incredibly cryptic sleeve note from Richard Stilgoe!
Also, I never realised back then that Control was meant to be a child playing with a train set. Was that only introduced later, or is it just edited out of the OLC? As a child, I always pictured Control as an other-worldly being, a bit like the Starlight Express itself - maybe an angel or a ghost or something. The voice definitely sounds like a woman, rather than a child. Does anyone know who the performer is?
Listening back to the OLC as an adult I can't get over how amazing it sounds - way more so than any later recording. For a lightweight and oft-dismissed show, it's just drenched in atmosphere. Just listen to the weird spooky keyboard sounds during Control's opening speech, particularly as she/he/they start to fade away. Just listen to the phenomenal sax solo in Pumping Iron, that has so much echo on it that it sounds (I assume deliberately) like a busker playing in a tube station late at night. And then there's that astonishing piano playing, fairly buried in the mix, on Rolling Stock. Could that be Rod Argent? I know that he was still working with ALW at this point, as were other members of the Variations team.
Final point for now, I'm utterly bamboozled by the reports that the bridge from Tyre Tracks and Broken Hearts has surfaced in the new version of Starlight. ALW is insane when it comes to reusing material, isn't he?! It's one thing to save a theme from something that was cut from a show, or never publicly released, but ALW has no qualms about using material he's put in shows, or released on record, before. Mind you, I don't know why I'm surprised - he's always doing it. Lest we forget, Tyre Tracks is actually English Girls from the US version of Tell me on a Sunday, which then had the bridge added when it was re-purposed in Whistle, and now that bridge has been lifted and put into Starlight Express. I know he's always done this, but I find it so strange. Would it be so hard to write a new section in a similar style, if that's what the scene demanded?!?
Again, if anyone knows the answers to these questions, I'd love to hear. It's a long shot, I know!
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Post by BVM on Jun 10, 2024 11:09:55 GMT
Gosh it really did didn't it. The anti ALW/anti JL set were out in force for the opening couple of shows! Exactly as you say, desperate for it to fail. (I can honestly never understand why anyone is ever desperate for anything to fail - anything that brings any audience joy is deserving). That's not what happened. Go back and read the negative reviews in the Sunset thread and you'll see they're pretty much all from fans of the show previously with no axe to grind about Lloyd Webber. For my part, I rate as I find, putting aside my opinions about ALW, and based on a combination of quality and how entertained I was. So: Cinderella: 5*, JL's Sunset: 1*, this Starlight: 3*. When I get more time, I'll post some thoughts to back up the three stars. Disappointingly, this past weekend (starting Thursday) has seen a succession of three-star experiences, from the Suite in Three Keys Double Bill, to Mean Girls, Boys from the Blackstuff, and Kiss Me Kate. Ahh apologies - this was an extension of my previous post and I was still talking about the "phantom" one star ratings that appeared early without accompanying blurb rather than the reviews themselves. Should have been clearer! |
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Post by BVM on Jun 10, 2024 11:11:10 GMT
On the video the colours look rather dull - but that might just be the film. Going Thursday. Loved both versions at Apollo Victoria but film looks like I may regret it None of that west-end stuffiness and starchiness. The staff want you to have a great time and nothing was too much trouble - from ice in drinks to where to sit, there was less of the weirdness you can get in some theatres and a much more welcoming group of friendly smiley people. Also, it was great that our front of house person made it very clear about the use of cameras: "If you are spotted filming or recording any part of the show, you will be asked to leave the theatre." I welcome this approach which has happened in a couple of places recently, and makes it crystal clear that there is a consequence to covert filming. Guess what? I didn't see any cameras/phones until the bows. Agreed - very young, very polite, very lovely! Assume many of them local and some of them perhaps doing this job for the first time. Was nice to see! |
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Post by BVM on Jun 10, 2024 11:16:00 GMT
Back to the show - did anyone spot "cast at this performance" information? I couldn't find it!
(Assume was all first cast but as time goes on would be good to have this info. Newsies had a QR code you could scan for the cast at that show!)
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Post by argon on Jun 10, 2024 11:28:31 GMT
Strange question
What's the quality of the skating like?
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Post by BVM on Jun 10, 2024 11:32:27 GMT
I'm seeing this in a few weeks time, but all this chatter has got me thinking a lot about Starlight Express. Like lots of people on this board, it was the show that really got me into theatre, way back in 1984. I enjoyed it so much, my parents bought me the double LP OLC at the merch stand as we left the theatre (which was really unusual for them... my mum's standard response to me wanting a record, even an LP, was 'can't you tape it off the radio?'!) Anyway, I played the album to death and, as a consequence, my impression of the show became formed by what was included on the record rather than what was on stage. I never went back to see the show until a few weeks before it finally closed in the early 2000s, by which time it had obviously changed a lot. I'm really interested to hear from anyone who can compare better than I can what is on the OLC and what was presented on stage back in '84. Obviously it was edited down to fit the 90 or so minutes you can fit on two vinyl records. It says that it was recorded live in the theatre but this can't be true. Apart from anything else, you couldn't get a studio quality recording done live back then from a show with the singers moving that much. At the very least, you'd need so much post-production that it just wouldn't make practical sense. But there are no studios, or even any musicians, listed in the credits. All you get is an incredibly cryptic sleeve note from Richard Stilgoe! Also, I never realised back then that Control was meant to be a child playing with a train set. Was that only introduced later, or is it just edited out of the OLC? As a child, I always pictured Control as an other-worldly being, a bit like the Starlight Express itself - maybe an angel or a ghost or something. The voice definitely sounds like a woman, rather than a child. Does anyone know who the performer is? Listening back to the OLC as an adult I can't get over how amazing it sounds - way more so than any later recording. For a lightweight and oft-dismissed show, it's just drenched in atmosphere. Just listen to the weird spooky keyboard sounds during Control's opening speech, particularly as she/he/they start to fade away. Just listen to the phenomenal sax solo in Pumping Iron, that has so much echo on it that it sounds (I assume deliberately) like a busker playing in a tube station late at night. And then there's that astonishing piano playing, fairly buried in the mix, on Rolling Stock. Could that be Rod Argent? I know that he was still working with ALW at this point, as were other members of the Variations team. Final point for now, I'm utterly bamboozled by the reports that the bridge from Tyre Tracks and Broken Hearts has surfaced in the new version of Starlight. ALW is insane when it comes to reusing material, isn't he?! It's one thing to save a theme from something that was cut from a show, or never publicly released, but ALW has no qualms about using material he's put in shows, or released on record, before. Mind you, I don't know why I'm surprised - he's always doing it. Lest we forget, Tyre Tracks is actually English Girls from the US version of Tell me on a Sunday, which then had the bridge added when it was re-purposed in Whistle, and now that bridge has been lifted and put into Starlight Express. I know he's always done this, but I find it so strange. Would it be so hard to write a new section in a similar style, if that's what the scene demanded?!? Again, if anyone knows the answers to these questions, I'd love to hear. It's a long shot, I know! Fascinating topic and I could drone on about it for hours (but I'll try and spare everyone and keep it as brief as I can ;-)) So I was chatting about the OLC upthread somewhere and you are totally right and I have also always been bemused by the sleeve claims that it was recorded live as it just doesn't sound it! Also annoying there is no orchestra info. Another thing against it being live is that many of the songs are "single" versions and overall orchestration wise it doesn't sound how the show sounded in the theatre! (The first German Live double CD is more more similar). Anyway, it is the right songs in the right order, just with some different arrangements. And edits to fit to double LP. The whole song list at the time is available here: starlightexpressmusical.fandom.com/wiki/1984_London_production/Musical_NumbersIn fact that Wiki page is an incredible resource for details on all the Nunn/Phillips/Napier productions. I am not connected but some fans I am social media friends with have poured a lot of time into it. And you're also right - there is no reference at all to it being a child's dream in 1980's London. Control was just this voice of a woman - some kind of ethereal being. Personally I loved this! It was more abstract. The explicit child's dream thing was then added to the international productions but (I think) didn't become explicit in London until the previews of the "new" version in 1992! Every production has had greater child involvement right up to now when she is onstage throughout! |
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Post by BVM on Jun 10, 2024 11:36:11 GMT
Oh and the voice of Control in London 1984-1992 and on the OLC is Nancy Wood, who played Buffy in the original cast!
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